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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
19:34:06
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 Subject: injectors next mod?
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Message:
So, I've got some mods on my truck and am looking to work on my "off the line" power and economy. I don't necessarily want to race every schmo who pulls up next to me. I am considering new injectors but am not sure which flow rate I should go with.
My truck is a '97 4x4 CC with about 100K miles. My injectors look pretty cruddy, but it's hard to say exactly how well they're flowing anymore. Can someone recommend a good upgrade (and price)?
This is what I've done so far.
(Soon to come is the lower ball joints and tie-rod ends).
K&N intake
Ported TB 728CFM (1.5" Hg)
Ported cylinder heads
1.7 Comp Cams Roller Rockers
JBA headers and exhaust
TPS mod (still tweaking)
Plenum pan repair w/ 1/4" thick aluminum plate
Edelbrock IAS shocks
Moog upper ball joints
Powerslot rotors
Hawk brake pads
180' thermostat
MSD 6 ignition
MSD 8.5mm wires
MSD blaster coil
Accel cap/rotor
Autolite cold plugs
Thanks for any help,
Mark
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2004
09:30:03
| RE: injectors next mod?
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contact fiveomotorsports.com. they will make sure you get the right injectors for your truck.
bosch design III i believe.
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2004
15:48:45
| RE: injectors next mod?
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yeah bruce will hook you up with the right set, damn fast
shipping, very easy mod to do, just make sure you depressurize
your fuel rail first, and make sure all the o rings come out when
you remove the old injectors
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2004
16:17:24
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Thanks. I was considering making a dyno run to get an idea of what my target injector rate should be. I've replaced the o-rings very recently due to my fixing the plenum pan. I found out, the hard way, what a bad o-ring can do. They are very easy to tear and leak easily. Thanks for the pointers.
Mark
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
09:58:10
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Assuming you have a 318, 21# units are probably what you want. Stock is 19#. You can go as high as 23-24# ones, but some have reported bogging on NA motors. The higher rates work better for blown engines. FMS injectors from fiveomotorsports is the way to go. You can also check out some of the Dodge websites, I have seen low mileage 21# and 23# units for sale in the last couple months for reasonable prices.
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99bludak
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
11:58:28
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Curious...I tried that website and I can't find it. Every search engine and even typing it directly gets me nothing. Am I missing something??
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
12:11:49
| RE: injectors next mod?
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try copying and pasting this into the address. it seems that their site has moved or changed since the last time i was there.
http://dp.information.com/?a_id=35&domainname=fiveomotorsports.com
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
12:13:55
| RE: injectors next mod?
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better yet. try this one:
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsDODGE.asp
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
12:16:55
| RE: injectors next mod?
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http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/
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99bludak
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
12:18:44
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Ok, thanks, so anyone know which ones I would need for a 99 5.2? I have been told the design II are the right ones, but that page doesn't show that kind..?
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99bludak
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
12:34:40
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Also, Sneezer, would going to 21# decrease my mileage do you think? I want the better 4 hole design, but I don't want to hurt my mileage at all. I don't have any mods really, just opened up the air intake, flowmaster, and TB spacer.
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
12:57:34
| RE: injectors next mod?
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just call bruce he'll get you the right set
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/10/2004
14:12:02
| RE: injectors next mod?
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My assumption with new injectors is that I'll see better idling, and perhaps better fuel economy. Should I expect to see any more off-the-line power when moving to a more efficient injector, or is it merely a economy thing?
Thanks,
Mark
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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9/11/2004
13:57:13
| RE: injectors next mod?
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The single port stock injectors usually lean out or don't deliver the fuel as good in the 3000 rpm and up range which is partly why your power dies off after 4 grand on most magnum engines... The 4 port bosch injectors will show improvements as far as performance goes in this range of the rpm's mainly due to the fact that they can deliver a more constant fuel rate at higher rpm levels or rather all through out the rpm scale...
Since you have opened up your intake quite a bit, your more than likely allready not delivering enough fuel anywhere through the rpm scale and I personally really think that you would be much happier with the 21 lb units... Looking back I really wish that I too had upgraded to the 21 lb units instead of getting the 19 lb units... I know that I would have been better off doing this because my intake is more than likely opened up far more than yours "set up more for a super charger or blower than a naturally aspirated engine" and when under a load "say fifth gear going up a steep mountain" I actually pull better at a 1/3 to 3/4 throttle position due to the fact that when it's floored out, it's just getting far more air than the 19 lb units can flow and it will steadily loose power but if run at partial throttle it will pull fairly strong all the way up the mountain...
You can expect better fuel mileage out of these injectors due to the fact that they atomize the fuel so much better than the stock units and spray a more consistant flow pattern... The 21 lb units however will cause a minor bit more fuel consumption simply because your burning 2 more pounds of fuel an hour...
BUT with your heads being ported and your intake opened up I would recommend going with the 21's...
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2004
08:36:16
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Thanks Greg, for the information. Very helpful. I think you've nailed my complaint. Even with more air, I don't feel I've got any "pep" (official term). ;) I'm looking for mods now that will take advantage of my changes. My thoughts were injectors (which you confirmed nicely) and also a PCM mod.
Thanks much!
Mark
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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9/13/2004
22:26:53
| RE: injectors next mod?
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No problem, but the only thing I would like to know in return is how much more noticable the 21 lb units are over the 19 lb units "your stock one's ofcourse"... That way if I ever decide on it, I'de like to change mine over to the 21's as well...
My mods as far as the intake go are as follows ---
This is also on a V6 3.9l engine "99 year model"
-- camshaft is a hughes regrind # HER0814AL which they have listed as a .512" lift on intake with the 1.6 rockers and a .520 lift on the exhaust with the 1.6 rockers
-- crower 1.6 rr's "wish I had gone with 1.7's"
-- intake is the hughes stage 1 with bores opened to two 52mm bores
-- tb is a holley "R/T" tb with torque steps removed for true 52mm bores, ports were also polished and opened minorly more to match the torque step removal
-- heads were extremely ported and polished, shaved .020"
-- each valve had 1 extra angle added to them
-- also have cold air intake with a K&N exstreme air filter "I think it's 8 or 9 inches long" and the intake has the tornado insert, along with iat relocated to it
-- on the exhaust side I have gibson headers, cat-back dual system, and carsound cat
I've got a few more mods than these as well, but figure these are the only ones to do with the incoming and exiting air...
So I know I'm getting plenty of air in and out, so I would really like to know how the 21 lb units work out for you, so I can plan on making the switch before too long myself... Also you'll have to give your truck atleast 200 miles to really trim back the fuel curve an at most on some up to 500 miles, so let me know if you don't mind about then...
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/14/2004
13:54:39
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Well, I ordered my injectors from FiveO. Thanks for the tip. Bruce stated that I have 21# injectors stock on my '97 5.2L. He recommended that I stick with that flow for my application (street driven, mostly towing) so I have a set of the Gen III 22.5-lb Bosch on the way. Along with it I am going to get a PCM change so I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again,
Mark
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/16/2004
16:08:25
| RE: injectors next mod?
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My injectors arrived today in great condition. I'm impressed. All the way to Wisc from Cali in just two days. Great service, support, and price.
Thanks again for the pointer!
Mark
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2004
21:56:51
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Just thought I would check back and see how you were liking the bigger and better injectors so far that is if you've put them in yet...
Thanks for the replies on all of your experiances with them...
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/19/2004
23:02:17
| RE: injectors next mod?
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I'm dying to put them in, but we had a busy weekend and I forgot to pick up some extra o-rings for the injectors. My experience has shown me that it's way too easy to tear the o-rings so I wanted to have some extra on hand before putting the new ones in. I suppose I could have just used the old ones, but I hate to put old things on new parts. Anyway, we had a busy weekend and I didn't get around to putting them in. I'm also waiting for my Hypertech programmer. It'll be here this upcoming week. I figured I'd put the injectors in at the same time. :) I am considering giving a coat of touch-up paint to the fuel rails as well, so I was looking for some braided fuel lines to replace the stock stuff in case my lines are in bad shape and I wreck something when I take it apart. I've had the fuel rails off, but haven't had the hoses off the rails before. I'd like to say I'll find out this week sometime, but I have plans to get my snow tires put on during the week, so I'll have to see.
I'll keep you posted,
Mark
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2004
13:03:07
| RE: injectors next mod?
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Ya you might as well take the extra time and do it right the first time... Just be sure to let us know the difference... I don't guess you could do the injectors then wait let say 2 or 300 miles to do the programmer could you??? I'de just like to know how the injectors alone help out...
Thanks Again,
Greg
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