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John Harden
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2004
13:00:04
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 Subject: Help - Want more power
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Just bought a new 04 4.7L Dakota. While it has more power than other small pickups I've driven, I'd like some more. Not looking to tear down the motor, or void my warranty and of course it still must pass California smog.
I'm really new to this and have no idea where to start. Don't mind spending some money to get more power, but also want the truck to remain reliable. I'd spend up to $1000, maybe more depending on what I could get for that.
Any help from you veterans would be much appreciated.
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Stratous
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2004
17:11:40
| RE: Help - Want more power
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I would start with a cold air intake:
Homebrewed - $50
Prebuilt - $300
And because it's Cali. you'de be limited to either a cat-back, or tight cats on true duals:
Cat-Back - $300
TrueDuals - $700
You could also do a computer tune and that varies in price, depending on who does it.
With those 3 items I would say from $400 - $1000 thats about 15 horse, WAY better throttle response, about 5 MPG and little deeper noise.
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2004
22:02:08
| RE: Help - Want more power
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1. Switch to AMSOIL bumper to bumper (including the Flowz-Air
air filter). $90- 150.00 max
2. Install pulley underdrive system. $120 -200.00
3. Have computer reflashed to you driving style. $50 - 100.00
Dr. D
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John Harden
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2004
22:40:37
| RE: Help - Want more power
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I spend $1000 and get 15 more horses?!? Are these the only options out there for me? I was thinking of a new air filter, maybe a new exhauest, and perhaps something else?
Guys, don't forget, I'm a complete newbie. Hell, I couldn't even find the spark plugs even after looking under the hood for awhile!!!!!!
Regards,
John
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greyDAK
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2004
23:25:12
|  RE: Help - Want more power
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if you have more than a grand, go for a (twin) turbo. It will almost double your horsepower and torque. Not for the squeemish though and certainly not for the first timer.
my $0.02
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John Harden
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2004
23:58:38
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Okay, how about somewhere in between? Maybe, I should be more specific. I'm looking for 40-50 hp. That would put me near 300, which is plenty for an 04 Dakota, Quad Cab.
Remember, I have to pass smog in California.....
Regards,
John
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dkota_rt
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
00:43:15
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Please don't take Dr. D's advice about switching to AMSOIL. There has been some AMSOIL a$$hole on this message board for month's trying to sucker people in to buying this crap. Every INDEPENDENT oil test has ranked AMSOIL as the weakest performance when compared to major oil brands like Mobil 1, Redline, Castrol, etc.. Of course, AMSOIL sponsored oil test says the stuff is better than sliced bread.
AMSOIL a$$holes want you to believe that they have "magic oil" that comes from special arabian oil pumps in private reserves with top secret additives. The truth is that AMSOIL is overpriced crap. A pyramid sceem like Amway to make the people higher up the AMSOIL pyramid ladder more profitable. Stay away from this garbage. Be careful of what you read without good research. Be careful of these marketing scemes.
Now for some performance advice. I recommend you contact KRC performance in Cocoa Beach Florida. They have dyno proven results about performance mods for the 4.7l. Check out the cat back exhaust systems, H.O. intake, H.O cam, performance throttle bodies, headers, etc.
http://www.krcperformance.net/newcontent/dyno.html
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dakondubbz
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
06:43:42
| RE: Help - Want more power
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use royal purple proven 5 hp on dyno by an independent dak site i think its windy city dakota or something
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/15/2004
07:53:34
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Dr D - where can you get a custom flash for $50- 100 ?
John Harden - you're not going to find an honest 40-50 hp for this motor for $1000.
dkota_rt - there is a difference between multi level marketing and pyramid schemes; pyramid schemes are illegal. I always try to point them out when I see them on this board, its usually the nonsense where you send money to peoples name on a list then add your name yourself. Typically no product being sold and they falsly claim its a service. Good advice on KRC's site though, they have some good dyno graphs for mods.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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John Harden
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
13:35:34
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Thanks to all of you for the replies. Sounds like I may need to spend significantly more money to get 40-50 additional hp. In the bang for the buck thread over in the V8 section, someone posted the following..
"Keith, I put a K and N air filter (45.00) on my truck, ported the Throttlebody(cost of bits for DremmelTool), the torque step limits the throttle body size to 48mm, I replaced my stock muffler with a flowmaster 70 series( about 100.00). This netted me about 40hp according to a Gtech meter."
If I was to install an aftermarket air filter, to let more air in, and an aftermarket muffler to let the air out, what will that net me? Any other suggestions as to what I should do?
So far, I've seen suggestions for a turbo, blower, catback (is this an exhaust system??)and true duals (don't know what this is).
Remember, I've got an 04, 4.7L, Quad Cab and must continue to meet (and pass) California emissions, including both the numbers tests and visual tests.
Regards,
John
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Noltz
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
20:14:56
|  RE: Help - Want more power
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Quick lesson: V6 & V8 exhausts;
Starting out from the engine, 6's & 8's (like yours) have exhaust manifolds to collect exhaust fumes from the cylinder heads and funnel it the back of the motor. There are two manifolds, one on each side of the engine. From there, a Y-pipe, so named because it looks like the letter Y, takes the exhaust fumes from the 2 manifolds and collects them into one pipe. Depending on which model truck, there can be as many as 3 oxygen sensor installed in this pipe. At the 'tail' of the Y pipe, the catalitic converter (also called a 'cat') is mounted. This is an emissions piece, some trucks may have cats built into the Y pipe also. Exhaust flows through the cat and on to the muffler several feet back. After exiting the muffler, the exhaust goes on through the tailpipe, and out to the atmosphere.
A 'catback' exhaust means everything is replaced from the Cat back. The catalitic converter remains in place, but new extension pipe, muffler and tail pipes are installed. Since the muffler is arguabily the biggest restriction, a new low-flow (and louder) muffler is installed, along with a shiney new pipe.
A true dual system is MUCH more expensive, in about the $700 range. In this setup, the Y pipe is removed, and everything from the motor back is replaced. This requires installing 2 new, government approved cats (expensive) to pass smog testing. And sometimes there are problems with the oxygen sensor mounting. That's up to the exhaust shop.
My suggestion; if it's not a 4x4, maybe getting a rear gear change is best. You'll rev a bit higher on the highway, but you'll gain lots down low. Total shouldn't be more than $500 installed, and you can out accelerate any non-modified Dak, and CARB won't even know it's there.
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
21:23:19
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Jeez guys, give the newbie some decent advice. Real simple:
1) H.O. cams=15hp/25lbs torque ($210)
2) Fastman or F&B throttle body=approx. 10hp ($200-$350)
3) K&N FIPK=7hp ($250)
4) KB computer flash 15hp $350 assuming they can do 04's not sure on that)
4 mods 4 bout $1100 4 nearly 50hp (not counting labor of course) But sheesh it really isnt that hard.
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carmen
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
21:24:14
| RE: Help - Want more power
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the reason the post said that he made 40 hp is because dodge left alot of room for improvement on the older 5.2 and 5.9 engines. I know by the TB size.
you have the newer engine that needs more then tweeks to bring out the power. a larger exhaust will move the power band up higher and make it sound faster.
I have the old type so I cannot tell you whats best. try reading some older posts, I think the cams seem to be the best...
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John Harden
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
23:08:31
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Thanks again for all the good advice.
Pittdawg, regarding your advice, I know what number 1 is, but an unsure about 2-4. For #2, do I replace my stock throttle body?
#3, I don't know what this is. I recognize the name brand K&N, but don't know what FIPK stands for.
#4, is that a new computer chip? Where does it go?
Will all these mods still pass smog here in California?
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Paul
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2004
00:47:15
| RE: Help - Want more power
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F&B sells a whole new throttle body that replaces your existing throttle body (more expensive). Fastman takes a throttle body that is exactly like yours (core) and bores that out, sends it to you, you then send your stock one back to him (cheaper, still good).
A K&N FIPK is a Fuel injected performance kit. It is the entire kit that replaces every thing up to your throttle body with a less restrictive plastic tube and large conical K&N filter.
Computer flash is when a company takes your PCM (truck brain) and reprograms (advances timing, firms shift points, moves rev and speed limiter) it to squeeze some horses out. I know Kenne Bell doesnt do 04's but some one was saying that B&G Chrysler does.
And yes, you would still pass Cali smog.
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John Harden
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2004
12:00:33
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Thanks for the informative reply Paul.
Sounds like I ought to consider the K&N FIPK and maybe the Fastman throttle body. This easy enough for a DIY'er to do?
Should I also go with a Catback exhaust? Which brand would you recommend?
Regards,
John
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2004
12:23:16
| RE: Help - Want more power
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If you want 40-50 hp, for around 1,000, then I'd put a 50 shot of nitrous on it. They say you don't need naything else for only a 50 shot.
But, I think you menat a continuous hp increase, not whaen you hit the button.
As a Noltz didn't say, a 'cat back', only changes the sound, no one has dynoes more that a 2hp just from that, and many lost about 2hp!
I'm not sure why you couldn't port your own 68mm TB, like I've done. Your wallet stays heavier.
JOhn, I have a QC too, a 2001, with the tranny you have to shift. And I ordered it with LSD.
That Limited slip differential- they won't let me order any acid!
My engine has:
HO cams-$110, for both cams total, purchase before the price went up.
HO intake-$140
Ported 68mm TB-$~4 dremmel bits
Removed the belt clutch/fan-freebie
Iat adjuster-$freebie (they sent two, and I sold one)
180 degree T-stat ~9, I think
3923 spark plugs- .89 each
home brew intake with K&N- about $50 total I think
removed third cat converter- $30
I think that comes to about $380.
this thing hauls ass, and tows a boat nice too!
I really like to dyno this puppy now, especially when the temp and hummidity drops.
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deerridge
GenIII
8/16/2004
16:34:38
| RE: Help - Want more power
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No one else mentioned it, but a set of headers will get a nice increase in torque down low (2000 to 3000rpm) and about 10hp. Combined with a good Fipk you'll notice a significant improvement particularly in towing.
Real Horsepower
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John Harden
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2004
17:16:10
| RE: Help - Want more power
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Okay, based on advice I've received so far, I purchased the K&N FIPK from SoCal Dakotas. I'll install it when it arrives, then go from there.
Sounds like HO Cams and a new throttle body would be good next steps.
I've heard differing opinions of a Catback. Should I just hold off on that for now and go one step at a time?
Thanks again for all the advice.
Regards,
John
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2004
18:28:37
| RE: Help - Want more power
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John,
with the k&N, you'll hear the engine more when you get on it. They were honest, and worked a long time, for what they say is a dynoed small gain.
I don't know much, but I'm still not sure why you can't just port your 68mm TB, and make it a true 68.
Did you see my list, about removing the worthless belt driven clutch fan? I've heard the 3.7 didn't even bother putting one on that engine.
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2004
19:19:06
| RE: Help - Want more power
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John---ya h.o. cams and a fastman tb (I'd go for a 69 or 70) would be a perfect next step, both very good power upgrades, and honestly a catback doesnt do much besides sound and looks. Texas Todd...I know some people have problems overheating when taking off clutch fan, odd though I would think if anyone did u would in texas..hmmm...
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