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FM18
GenIII
 
4/03/2001
17:31:00
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 Subject: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Hi All,
Thought you all might be interested in the reply I received from Dodge on the full time vs part time 4x4 modes. I recently ordered a new 4.7L SLT in full time mode and was never able to get an answer for what the true differences were. Here is what Dodge has to say!
Thanks for the great list and info from you all!
Dear Trice:
The NV231 and NV231HD feature a low -range gear system which provides a reduced gear ratio for
increased low-speed torque.
When the part-time four-wheel drive system is engaged, both front and rear driveshafts are locked
by a chain and gearset and always turn at the same speed forming a single driving unit. This is a
rigid connection that does not allow for any differential action between the front and rear axles.
Normal front-to-rear differences in the turning radii of the tires are only compensated for through
wheel slippage over adverse driving surfaces.
The NV242HD full-time transfer case is optional. With this transfer case, four-wheel drive can be
utilized fro all driving conditions. A planetary differential between the front and rear axles to
turn at different speeds as when cornering while dividing torque equally between them.
Essentially, the part-time system offers better gas mileage but requires shifting into 4-wheel
drive when needed. The full-time system is always on and can be applied to all conditions. The
full-time system has a position where the differential can be locked, in 4H and 4L, for the
ultimate in 4-wheel drive. This gives you the convenience of 4-wheel drive at all times and the
ability to lock the center differential for adverse conditions.
I hope this information helps.
My Original Question:
NV244HD electronic, full-time: Please explain this full time 4x4 systems
as compared to the part time 4x4 system on the 2001 Dakota 4.7L Quad Cab
Comments:
---------
I have recently ordered a full time 4x4 system in a 2001 Dakota Quad Cab.
I would like to know the pros, cons and how I should use the 4x4 function
appropriately. Will this system handle moderate to above average off road
situations? Can off roading damage the system if not used correctly? What
is the difference between 4H and 4L in the full time vs part time 4x4
units? What is the power transfer distribution front and rear of both
systems. Does the full time unit have a locking transfer case in the 4H or
4L mode? What are the major advantages/disadvantages of this system?
Thank you for your assistance.
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FM18
GenIII
4/03/2001
19:38:49
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Hi All,
Thought you might like to see the reply I sent back to Dodge as something still does not seem quite right with their response. Part numbers were not matching up. I am looking forward to their answer to my reply.
My reply back:
Thanks for the latest information. I think it is most helpfull but still want to make sure I have the part numbers straight on the different 4x4 systems. Dakota brochure states: NV233HD electronic, part-time “shift on the fly” and NV244HD electronic, full-time (requires V8
engine with automatic transmission) where as your reply listed the following part numbers "NV231 and NV231HD" for part time unit and "NV242HD full-time transfer case is optional". Are these the same units or have we gotten things mixed up or not? Sorry to sound so picky, but the part numbers are not matching up here just yet. Please let me know. Thanks again, Trice.
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CanDak
Gen III
4/03/2001
21:08:51
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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I have a full time/part time transfer case in my 99 Dakota. Part time 4wd, drives both axles all the time, off road or slippery conditions, not to be used on dry hard road surface. Full time 4wd,
drives only rear axle until rear wheels slip then automatically goes into 4wd, can be used on any road surface and at any speed. 4wd low, drives both axles all the time, low range, reduced speed, greatest pulling power.
99 CC Sport 4X4, 5.2 Auto 3.55
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The Goto Guy
Unregistered
4/04/2001
14:29:16
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
My 76 Chevy has the NV231 Full Time case. There is a diff in both Axles (given) and essentially an open diff in the Transfer case. Both front and rear wheels drive all the time, just think of a standard axle only sideways down the truck driving the axles. If the Front end was on ice and the rear on pavement then One front wheel would spin unless you have a locker or LS diff in the front. This is when you would put the lever to the option of locking the center case, thus putting power to the front and rear. The NV231 is not a LS diff, it's either open or locked.
You can hear it binding up in parking lots and feel it pulling around in front. I PAID to have it converted to part time 4wd with Manual Locking hubs. This dramatically reduced drivetrain noise, gas consumption, acceleration and smoothness in a turn. The Volvo Viscous coupling is more like the previous answer where one set of wheels is always running then it is switched. The NV231 doesn't do that.
It all comes down to your climate. If it's mildy wet, icy and snowy for more than 5 months a year I'd consider it, otherwise no. In serious snow then I'd still get it part time as you'll be locked in the full time anyway.
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FM 18
GenIII
4/04/2001
16:50:52
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Hi All, here is the final answer I got from Dodge to my question on full vs part time 4x4. They had mixed up the model numbers between the 2000 and 2001 versions.
Dear Trice:
I apologize. I used a 2000 model year information booklet to describe the operation of the transfer
cases. The model numbers you have are correct and the operation I described applies to the new
transfer cases.
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The Goto Guy
Unregistered
4/04/2001
17:16:18
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
My bad, it's the 203 I have.
But my understanding is that the 231 is similar only with an aluminum case instead of my 300 pound steel case.
In either case the operations of the full time and part time should apply.
I don't believe any NV full time case is a viscous coupling type that will transfer power from slipping wheels to gripping wheels or normally be in one drive end only operation.
If I am wrong I apologize and will stand corrected.
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FM18
GenIII
4/04/2001
21:12:47
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Ok triva fans, what does the NV stand for? Is this an outside vendor that produces transmissions for other/multiple manufactures (ie, Chevy, etc)? Just curious!
Thanks!
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UWGriz
Unregistered
4/05/2001
10:58:25
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
NV stands for New Venture, which is the company name. They manufacture transfer cases for several OEM's. They used to be New Process, so if you're ever wondering about how your NV231 is different from your buddy's NP231 - it's not.
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FM18
GenIII
4/05/2001
16:44:02
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
UWGriz,
Thanks for that info. I knew someone out there would have the answer! Now my next question that I hoped this whole thread would lead to is "Why is the full time system "NOT" suited for "real" off roading as Dodge has called this transmission the ultimate in 4-wheel drive" being that you can lock the center differential in the full time version? I am not planning on doing any major rock crawling but will be using the truck from time to time on hunting adventures and the like. Just curious. I have been on some real adventures in a Jeep Wrangler with front and rear lockers. This little jeep had a 4 cylinder in it and it was going places the guys on quad-runners/ATVs were afraid to try! Amazing what you can do with the right equipment and the right setup!! Again, thanks for all who have responded to the newbie's questions!
Awaiting my 2001 Patriot Blue SLT+ Quad Cab 4.7L Full time 4x4 3.55 LSD Auto :0)
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The Goto Guy
Unregistered
4/05/2001
18:09:59
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Who said it wasn't suited for off road?
I don't think it's really needed on road and had it eliminated. If it's raining or snowing lock up the part time and your good. If it's dry or damp I didn't feel the benefits were worth the noise, milage,power loss and wear.
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FM18
GenIII
4/05/2001
20:47:34
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Goto Guy, That came from several earlier post on the list and in the archives I researched. Some said that the full time version was looked down upon by the serious off roaders and that one of the reasons was the lack of a center locking differential (which appears to be a misunderstanding on their part). I contacted Dodge just for my on FYI benefit as their Dakota Brochure didn't make the difference between the 2 systems clear either. It even says something along the lines of ...for more demanding off road situations there is the part time system. I got the full time system just for the additional traction it may give on the wet roads around here along with the 4 wheel antilock brakes. If you ever have driven in Northern VA during a rain event, and heaven forbid, I snow storm, you would not believe how our non-drivers react! (yikes!!) I know the gas mileage will suffer a little and I already have a quick car to help deal with my need for speed sometimes ('89 GT Mustang 5.0L, which suprisingly gets around 25 mpg on the highway!) I just was trying to make a point that maybe this full time system can handle serious off roading if need be. I am still learning here but like to get the true facts out when ever I can. Again, I am all ears and do appreciate any comments.
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UWGriz
Unregistered
4/06/2001
08:33:26
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
This probably most easily explained using axles. Full time 4WD is not really best suited for offroading because in full-time mode, the case is tranferring power to both front and rear wheels but acts in a similar manner to an open differential. This means that all the wheels are turning until one set loses traction. When that happens, that set of wheels just spins, the others doing nothing. Now part-time 4WD is like having a locker between the front and rear wheels. No matter what (minus breakage), the front and rear wheels will spin at the same speed. So, you can't have one set just spinning all by itself.
Perhaps the easiest example is this. Imagine you are driving slowly up a hill of wet grass with dry pavement at the top. In both modes, all four wheels will be pulling since they all have about the same amount of traction. Now, once you get the front wheels on the pavement, they have more traction. In full time mode, the rears can spin on the wet grass while the front do nothing to help pull you. In part time mode, the front and rears are locked together, this means the rears can't spin without the front, where your traction is. Now you can get up the hill.
Before you yell, "Crap, did I buy the wrong case?!?!", no, you didn't. You have the nicest one you can get in the Dakota. Full time 4WD with a part time option. This means you can run around on the wet pavement, have no problems cornering, have less wear and tear, but still lock it in for that grass hill.
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UWGriz
Unregistered
4/06/2001
11:46:14
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Here's the lowdown (What DC didn't tell you) on the two cases available for the 2001 Dakota
TRANSFER CASE: NV233HD PART-TIME
Operating Modes: Neutral; 2WD; 4WD High, locked; 4WD Low, locked electronically shifted
Low Range Ratio: 2.72
Center Differential: None
TRANSFER CASE: NV244 FULL-TIME
Operating Modes: Neutral; 4WD; 4WD High, locked; 4WD Low, locked electronically shifted
Low Range Ratio: 2.72
Center Differential: Planetary with lock Torque Split, F/R 48/52
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The Goto Guy
Unregistered
4/06/2001
13:09:46
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Yeah Griz that's why I don't understand how the part time is better OFF road. Both can lock up the center diff. They both have a low range. The only reason they even have part time is for on road performance. Front and rear diffs the same they will perform the same off road after locking up the transfer case.
I think your explaination of full time with part time is confusing the subject a little though. :)
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UWGriz
Unregistered
4/06/2001
14:06:49
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
IP: Logged
Message:
Goto Guy
Actually, it's the full-time that's intended for on-road. When a full-time case is locked, you're right, they perform the same because the full-time case is acting like a part-time. This is why you'll see a case described as full-time/part-time (New Venture calls it Full Time plus Part Time). That part may be confusing, but I blame NV for that, since it's their description. (Check out http://www.nvg.com/tcases.html)
The cases in Dakotas are full-time/part-time. A true full-time case (e.g. NV249) can not lock the axles together (basically - AWD).
For driving on the road, you wouldn't want the front and rear locked together, it would either break stuff or wear everything out in a big hurry. In other words - you only want it locked up part of the time (part-time). Off road, you do want them locked so that you can't have just one set of tires spinning (on the grass hill, the rears may slip, but the fronts will pull you up).
If you notice, the NV244 does not have a 2WD mode. That's because it runs all of the time in 4WD (full-time) instead of just disengaging the front axle. That's the only difference.
Basically what you end up with is this:
Part-Time Case (In 4WD part of the time)
On-road: 2WD
Off-road: 4WD, locked
Full-Time/Part-Time Case (In 4WD all of the time)
On-road: 4WD, differential action
Off-road: 4WD, locked
Full-Time Case (In 4WD all of the time)
On-road: 4WD, differential action
Off-road: 4WD, differential action
It's actually more confusing for the NV244 to be called a full-time case instead of a full-time/part-time since saying just full-time doesn't tell the whole story.
So when off-roaders say they don't like full-time 4WD, they're talking about the mode of operation (unlocked), not neccessarily the case. A true full-time case doesn't give them an option while full-time/part-time case does - that they like.
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The Goto Guy
Unregistered
4/06/2001
17:47:02
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Griz I think our definitions of ON road performance are differing here (me being more into racing the road courses than hitting the trails) and I'll just leave it at the previous great explanations of what the different cases do.
To the original poster, I wouldn't worry about having bought the full time case as my old truck has been on the road 10 times longer with the full time than it has been with the part time. Going on 26 years.
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Ripper
GenIII
4/06/2001
19:57:13
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
I bought the full time also. With the 5.9 engine, I was more worried about burning the tires up on fast take offs. Now all I do is floor the gas and instead of burning the tires off, I just get up and go. No spinning on wet roads either.
2001 White Quad Cab Sport 4x4, 5.9L, 3.92 LSD
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FM18
GenIII
4/06/2001
20:05:05
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
IP: Logged
Message:
UWGriz and Goto Guy,
Thank you both for your input! I think I have this thing figured out now thanks to you all. Griz, your explanations were great. I did almost yell "Oh Crap" the day after I ordered it and new there was more to this whole full time/part time issue that I wasn't getting a good explanation for. I was hoping paying those extra $$$ for the full time mode ment that there was more too it than what others were leading me to believe. I kept saying to myself "Why would I be getting less with a 4x4 system that is supposed to do more?" I now know I made a good decision for my personal driving situation! Thanks again for the help and I'll let you know how this thing really works in the next 2-4 weeks when it is due to be delivered. It is getting harder everday to wait for my new truck to get here!
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MACE
Dodge Dakota
5/25/2001
18:26:33
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Hey FM18, thanks for pointing me to this thread...I felt a little bummed out after starting a similar thread on Edmunds and seeing the NV244HD system shot down with folks saying it offers less traction than 2WD, is really only 1 wheel drive yet still eats more gas and tires.
I'm gonna call New Venture Gears on Tuesday and have them send me the specs/white paper on the NV244HD...I'd like to know on dry surfaces with traction, when in AWD, which wheel has the torque applied, I do know I can get 48% to the front and 52% to the rear, but not full time...I believe our system will only apply torque or traction to the wheels (not axle) that has no traction -vs- the Subaru system that applies torque or traction to the wheels with the most traction...and that the ABS pump/computer doesn't come into play to stop wheels that are spinning.
If I get NV's specs on the NV244HD, I'll post them here.
Thanks again...BTW, today in the rain (after getting my A.R.E. LSII Tonneau Cover with sport wing installed...sweet!), I floored my DAK QC from a stop light...no wheel spin, got thrown back into the drivers seat...bet ya a NV233HD (ok, without LSD) would have spun the tires... (nothing against you part time 4WD owners...I've been on myself the past 10 years)
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albert
Dodge Dakota
5/26/2001
02:13:05
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Anybody know the difference between the NV231 part time and NV242 full time cases for the 2000 models vs. the NV233 part time and NV 244 full time for the 2001 models? Are they just a little different because the newer models have a electronic dash mounted switch while the 2000's have the lever?
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MACE
Dodge Dakota
5/27/2001
11:26:19
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Albert: early next week I hope to have NVGs tech paper on both AWD systems: the NV242 and NV244HD (new for 2001)...I'll post that info (or URL) here.
At the moment, I can't find any tech or spec write ups on the NV244HD
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albert
Dodge Dakota
5/28/2001
03:10:26
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Thanks Mace, I hope your able to get that info to post it.
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UWGriz
Dodge Dakota
5/29/2001
08:27:48
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Albert
The NV231 and NV242 are mechanically shifted transfer cases while the NV233 and NV244 are electronically shifted. Other than that the internals of the 231 are the same as the 233. Same for the 242/244.
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albert
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
03:48:08
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
Thanks UWGriz, thats what I suspected but wasn't sure.
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MACE
Dodge Dakota
5/30/2001
15:31:42
| RE: Full vs Part Time 4x4
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Message:
While waiting on a technical writeup of the NV244HD, can someone tell me on a dry, sunny day on pavement with great traction, which wheel(s) does the AWD NV244HD apply all the torque to?
And to verify, our system differs from say Subaru's system that applies torque to the wheel(s) with the most traction -vs- the NV244HD applying torque to the wheel(s) with the least traction (which could promote more slippage, right?)
Thanks.
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