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Missin My Dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/29/2006
07:14:31
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 Subject: Axle Swap????
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Hello all,
I'm currently over here in Iraq in support of operation Iraqi Freedom and i'm wanting to do something drastic to my Dak when i get back. With all the bonus money and all i'll have saved up.
Has anyone ever heard of someone doing a solid axle swap up front? I was thinking a solid front axle with a basic leaf spring setup. I was going to upgrade gears while i'm at it and i know i'll have to make the rear the same.
I know with enough $$ anything can be done but how far out there is this? Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.
'99 CC 4X4 5.2L 5spd
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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/10/2006
03:06:30
|  RE: Axle Swap????
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No,No,NO! You want coil springs.
The prototype is the Unimog. I think you've got some there.
Take a look at a Land Rover, if you are ever around the Brits.
The Ram 4X4 with a solid axle is a good basic set-up.
My Brother in law got rid of his Ram 2500 diesel because the leaf spring-solid axle system beat them to death, even with a 13,000 lb fifth wheel.
And, without coil spring travel, you'll actually lose off road performance.
Then there is the burning question....what's wrong with independant suspension?
If you want drastic, add differental locks.
Gears? www.gearvendors.com
And, Thank you.
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jd
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2006
11:04:44
| RE: Axle Swap????
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whats wrong with IFS..... dont get me started, more moving parts for one...., the lack of aftermarket parts for another (1990 4x4)
shatto why NONONONONO coils???
have a close look at a 70s ford bronco 4x4, ideal set up for a dakota (for my 1990 4x4 at least, i looked into it)
the drive is on the LH side of the front solid axle and, what what?!?! these old broncos use coil springs, and apparently the spring pockets and brackets will weld up with a little knowhow
jd
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2006
11:15:32
| RE: Axle Swap????
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Yeh, them independant suspension Humvees is junk.
What independant suspension offers is much better traction. The trade off is strength.
Coil springs on a solid axle gives more play.
That is the beauty of the 60 year old Unimog. Model A type torque tubes, coil springs all around, offset axle (something like 18" clearance at the bottom of the flat bottom differential), Differental locks, straight through 6 speed synchronised gearbox. (no transfer case gear overlap)
Looks like we agree.
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Super bee
GenI
5/11/2006
20:32:35
| RE: Axle Swap????
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its not like 4x4 off road bought a 2500 chevy 4x4 and tried to wheel it and beat it to death spending tons of money replacing parts to make it last longer than 30 mins when they were wheeling
and how old was his leaf spring 2500, the newer ones are coils, so it must have been fairly old and those 2500 rode like a brick anyway
my 3500 rides better than any the old 1/2 tons
and as far as wheeling goes, IFS is jsunk compared to SA
why did they use a 2500 base model for the Power Wagon.......
1990 sport RC SB, 1995 318drivetrain, 3.92 gears (came with truck) 95 dash/steering wheel, hearthrob exhaust, headers, cutout after y-pipe, necessary electric fan add-a-leafs, 30x9.5 mud tires, cranked T-bars, AR 39 15x8 rims, grill guard, roll bars
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Moose
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2006
00:40:14
| RE: Axle Swap????
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I have been looking for an axle swap for my 96 Dakota ever since my first deployment. I am now going on my third and it is still not done. The guy is right about the 70 bronco being the ideal off-road vehicle setup. In my research you can take the mounts off of the bronco and weld them up almost perfect. Here is a web cite of a guy did it successfully. www.utahwest.com/truck/fourwheeling.htm He has a nice setup on his Dakota. But I would not recommend the old Bronco axles unless you were trying to save on money. I think the axles I have in storage are Dynatrac Dana 60's. They will even move the tie rod or modify the axle to your liking. I am not sure and don’t quote me on that it has been a while. If you have not done the conversion yet let me know and I can always call and find out about the axles. I hope this information will help you.
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Moser
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2006
23:18:38
| RE: Axle Swap????
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I can assure you that independent suspension does NOT give you better traction. That is why the best articulating suspensions use solid axles. Also, that is why half of the pictures you will see of a Hummer H1 off-road show just 3 tires on the ground. For a large amount of articulation, you need suspension parts with greater distances between pivots/mounting locations. All stock vehicles with independent suspension have short control arms prohibiting a large amount of flex. Probably the only thing we got going for our IFS is alittle better ground clearance. My buddies Land Rover Discovery rarely lifts a tire, but has his steering linkages catch on obstacles too often.
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2006
02:11:45
| RE: Axle Swap????
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Inchon, Korea, 1969.
Same rutty hill.
Old civilian CJ-5 hardtop.
M-151.
Both complements of the 503rd MP Detachment, 75th Transportation Battalion.
Jeep spun tires and I had to try a couple times to get up the hill.
M-151 almost idled up with no problems whatever.
Why? The Jeep was unable to keep tires on the ground as well as the indepenadnt suspensioned M-151.
As to articulation, Moser, read what I writ about the Unimog.
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Moser
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2006
09:47:51
| RE: Axle Swap????
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"What independant suspension offers is much better traction." This is what I read!!?? There are several factors to consider when comparing two vehicles. ie; suspension, weight, tires/diffs, wheelbase/track, etc... The leaf sprung jeeps were never flex monsters out of the box. Yes coil springs are ideal. Articulation IS important for traction.
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2006
10:16:00
| RE: Axle Swap????
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Moser,
Seems what we have here is a failure to communicate.
I am reading that you believe independant suspension does not give better traction.
If that is so, please explain why it is used.
NASCAR uses a solid rear axle,(I say "a" because the only difference is the paint job on those cars.) but independant front suspension. Why? If they represent the cars of the paint job, shouldn't they use similar suspension? Shouldn't they use fuel injection? But, I digress. Why doesn't NASCAR use a solid front axle?
Open wheel race cars use independant suspension. Why?
All high performance passanger cars use independant suspension. Why?
Does Ford still make cars with solid axles? Have you seen the rear suspension of their SUV's?
Excluding the Morgan, sports cars use independant suspension.
The acknowledged bestest off road vehicle on the planet, the Humvee has independant suspension.
So, the question is, considering it cost more to install and mantain and we know corporations are in the business of doing things cheaply to save costs, why do manufacturers still chose to use independant suspension?
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Moser
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2006
21:19:17
| RE: Axle Swap????
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This is the "off road" board. So the type of traction being discussed is while off road and the need to keep all four tires on the ground. Again, "That is why the best articulating suspensions use solid axles." It is quite obvious that auto manufactures use independent suspension for more comfort and on road performance amongst other things.
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Moser
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
02:43:20
| RE: Axle Swap????
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Moser,
Dammit, man. Will you stop arguing when we agree?
You just said; "So the type of traction being discussed is while off road and the need to keep all four tires on the ground."
If you'll read what I've said; beginning with the sixth line down of my first post, the entire thrust of what I have written agrees with what you said.
Missin My Dak,
You want to keep the damn tires on the ground.
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Moser
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
11:25:58
| RE: Axle Swap????
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I think someone needs to calm down and use their own name. I've agreed with most things shatto has said. But it would be misleading to some when he writes
"Yeh, them independant suspension Humvees is junk.
What independant suspension offers is much better traction. The trade off is strength."
Although the first statement is sarcastic, the second statement is wrong when discussing slow/technical off-road situations. And of course the strength issue is correct. This is where shatto gets worked up.
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
12:40:40
| RE: Axle Swap????
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Please define slow/thechnical off-road situations.
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Joshua Lafond
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
18:01:21
| RE: Axle Swap????
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Hey Shatto,
Are you retarded? Why would someone in a race car application want to use a solid axle? I am assuming you mean that they would be using an I-Beam axle, because why in the hell would you want a 4WD NASCAR... They use an IFS so they can get the vehicle low to the ground for aerodynamics. If they had a SFA the frame would bottom out on the axle. That's why guys with lowriders notch their frames in the rear, that's why you never see bagged and bodydropped 4X4's laying frame. You're messed in the head.
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Joshua Lafond
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
18:02:44
| RE: Axle Swap????
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BTW, they use IFS for passenger cars because they ride nicer. Who would want to buy a 2007 Honda Civic that rode like a Model T?
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Moser
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
20:41:58
| RE: Axle Swap????
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By slow/technical off-road situations I mean terrian consisting of rocks/boulders, crevases(sp), etc.. Places you will be manuvering slower while utilizing your entire suspension travel. I would definitely use an IFS with coil springs if I were to desert race. But that would consist of custom long control arms and coil over shocks to give the travel needed to soak up jumps.
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
21:34:45
| RE: Axle Swap????
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There you go! Now we're close to being on the same page.
Isn't it hard getting your thought into someone elses head? Example: I say "Ball" you tell me what I mean.
To see what you're talking about, go to:
www.lookatentertainment.com, then Extreme Videos, then scroll to: 4X4 Vehicle, and see a stripped Unimog doing what Unimog's do best. Notice, the tires.
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Moser
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2006
23:13:29
| RE: Axle Swap????
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I believe the lack of communication came on may 11th when you spoke of independent suspension giving better traction. The next paragraph had you praising the unimog with solid axles. See the contradiction!?
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2006
00:41:30
| RE: Axle Swap????
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Last year, in 4X4 Magazine was a story of a rock climber powered with a stock Honda Civic engine and transmission, mounted so the axles became driveshafts. I don't recall how they got low gearing, maybe worm gear differentals.
So?
Absolutely nothing.
I submit the Unimog represents the pinnacle of what it is.
The new Land Rover and Mercedes with their sophistocated drive systems can, right off the showroom floor, likely go more places better than anything you have. Certainly they are better than my Korean War Military Jeep and 60's Land Rovers. I know they can go places my two wheel drive Dakota can't.
The question is; have we scared off Missin My Dak?
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Walt_Felix
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2006
09:28:32
|  RE: Axle Swap????
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Yea, I've seen one like that down at Paragon. It had a Saturn engine and trans-axle mounted sideways (block front to back instead of transverse mounted like in a saturn) with drive shafts going out to locked 9" Ford diffs. I think he was running like 5.38 gears. The thing was un-stopable.
http://www.walt-n-ingrid.com/images/photopost/data/531/medium/1PICT0012_001.jpg
http://www.walt-n-ingrid.com/images/photopost/data/531/medium/1PICT0018_001.jpg
Walt
I guess we did scare off Missin My Dak
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