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Brandi
Dodge Dakota
8/12/2001
22:35:35
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 Subject: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Hi, I am new to this board. Can some one tell me what is a good suspension lift for my 93 dakota 4x4. I was told that some of the after market lifts are are not very strong, and I might want to replace my front suspension instead. A local shop told me they can do a front end conversion and lift for me. I am a girl that likes off roading and am not affraid to go into the rough stuff. I dont want a lift for just the looks. I already have a 3 inch body lift. The trails That I ride on have a lot of big rocks. The cross members under my truck are already quite dented, So I need more clearance. but I dont want to be waisting money fixing a flimsy suspension lift. I would realy appreciate some help.
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Hawkeye
Gen III
8/13/2001
07:17:44
|  RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
I believe that Trailmaster is about the only company that makes a lift for you.
Walt you around? Any advice for the lady?
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
32x11.50 BFG AT's
Urban Warrior
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dirtydak
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
14:36:23
|  RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Yes, TrailDistaster is the only lift available for the GenII dakotas. They can also be modified to fit a GenI. If you are going to pay for the installation of the lift and the local shop says they can do it, I would go with the straight axle conversion. It will provide better offroad capabilities and stronger axles. More lift is acheived this way too. The largest tire you can fit with the 4" TM lift and 3" body is 33's which can still rub and i thinkk someone had 35's. I would think that major torsion bar cranking was done though. Not a real popular thing, though. With a conversion you can fit pretty much any size you would want. And suspension parts are cheaper and more easily obtainable for straight axle lifts. I guess it all depends on how much you want to spend and what state you live in because they all have different laws concerning height.
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Brandi
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
20:23:14
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Thanks, I live in Arizona. I dont think there is going to be a problem with height. I do want a lot of stength in my suspension. I was quoted a price for the straight axle conversion that was not that much more than the installation of an after market lift. I think I have pretty much decided to go that route. Does anyone have anything bad to say about a straight axle conversion. I already know that I will loose a little comfort on highway, but I like all the other benefits. I also want to put on some 35 inch tires. Thanks again guys.
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Hawkeye
Gen III
8/13/2001
20:43:51
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Nothing wrong with a straight axle at all. I dont really think you loose anything on the highway personally. I have owned both straight and IFS. You may loose a little cornering ability but with 35's you wont be taking corner really fast anyway, or at least I wouldnt. :-)
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
32x11.50 BFG AT's
Urban Warrior
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Mac10
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
20:56:05
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Brandi, Hey I also live in AZ. What part of the state do you live in?
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Brandi
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
21:12:29
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
I live in Oro Valley.
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Mac10
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
21:50:15
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
I live in NW Tuscon, Probly not more than 15 min away from you. You are welcome to come 4-wheelin with my group. We are going to Mount Wrightson this weekend. It's always a lot of fun.
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Brandi
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
22:45:22
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Mac10, Sounds like fun. e-mail me the details.
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Brandi
Dodge Dakota
8/13/2001
22:52:39
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
I would still like to hear some oppinions on solid axle conversions. As I have not yet completely commited to getting one yet. Thanks
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
8/14/2001
01:56:28
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
I would be very cautious about making such a major change to a vehicle. Is the truck your daily driver? What are you willing to give up to get better off-road performance?
Automobile suspension is a pretty sophisticated subject. Detroit has tons of experience at it. Plus the equipment to produce and study extensive computer simulations of vehicle performance, behavior, and failure. It's not an easy thing to get right the first time.
I have great respect for talented hot rodders, self-taught fabricators, and experienced home builders. I also see a lot of people who can't weld, can't draw a straight line, can't understand stress, metal fatigue, or parts failure, and find somebody else to blame when a badly designed part fails. I also see people who think raising a truck's center of gravity, putting it up high on a flexy suspension, and holding it all together with marginal engineering is not only acceptable, but won't compromise the original design.
Your truck has an independent front suspension. A live axle is a very different design. Converting from one to the other seems like a great opportunity to build a camel when you really want a horse.
It might work. Or it might not. It might be better to start with a solid-axle truck in the first place.
Just my thoughts. And I readily admit I don't have any experience with a solid-axle Dakota.
-J.
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Mac10
Dodge Dakota
8/14/2001
03:30:20
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Solid Axle conversions are quite common. Some companies even offer conversion kits. Changing your front suspension from IFS to either a solid axle supported by leaf springs or coil springs is not as difficult as it might sound. Yes, designing a complete IFS would be difficult, but a lot of the solid axle conversions are done with with time tested components. I have a friend who has had a front axle conversion done on his GenII Dakota and it performs flawlessly. If you want you can check out his conversion in action this weekend at Mount Wrightson. Also you can check out this web site:
www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/feature/99dakota/solidaxleswap/
This site shows how the conversion is done.
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
8/19/2001
16:08:47
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Yup. It could work.
Had a chance yesterday to crawl around under a straight-axle Durango. This thing is sweet. Beautiful crafsmanship in a coil-suspended, quad-shock setup, with 35-inch tires. The guy said it was done at a shop in Burbank and he was very happy with it. Seemed to drive just fine, performed beautifully in the dunes at Pismo, and he didn't have any complaints about it.
My stock Dakota looked pretty wimpy in comparison. But then I didn't have to make the 400-mile roundtrip in the converted Durango, so I don't know how it performs on the highway.
-J.
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dirtydak
Dodge Dakota
8/20/2001
09:59:52
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
You can never go wrong with a straight axle setup. Especially if you are looking for offroad performance. DO IT!! DO IT!!
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
16:34:10
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
You should also take your off-road abuse into EXTREME consideration before going to a straigt axle. Modern-day IFSs on 4x4s are not 'toy' suspensions. They are stronger than you think. I would much rather spend money on beefing up an IFS than to turn back evolution on my modern-day vehicle. Straight axle setups have brute-iron-strength going for them with little moving parts as their specialty. IFS has everything else going for it -- better handling (on and off road). Plus, depending on which type of straight axle setup you go with, tire size may be the ONLY way to get differential-to-ground clearance.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
17:23:32
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Lifting a truck has to do with what type of offroad activities you plan on doing. If your plans are rockcrawling, go with a straight axle. This setup is strong, little moving parts as Robert mentioned, and you can get as much lift as you want.
But if speed is your game, as it is mine, stay away from a straight axle. Go with a beefed up IFS system. A stock IFS is OK, but there are places out there that will turn your truck into a fabricated IFS system that will compare to Baja trucks that race in deserts. Also is your advantage if you drive on the street. And those trucks have 30+ inches of travel, much higher than straight axles.
So it has more to do with what type of activity is your game, rather than what is "the best", as I dont believe in either being superior. One is good for one activity, the other is good for another.
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
14:16:28
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Well said, TigerDak.
There seems to be a mis-nomer in the 4x4 world that IFS is inferior. This couldn't be farther from the truth. It truly is dependent on the activity. And even then, both can be 'beefed' up to handle most anything. In the end, it really is a matter of money... and what you want to do.
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RizeAbuv
Dodge Dakota
8/30/2001
12:24:56
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Hey Mac10 I also live in Tucson. Eastern part though. Think you could give me some info about your group. Im always lookin for some fun. If you could let me know.
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Mac10
Dodge Dakota
8/30/2001
12:59:29
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
RizeAbuv, I will e-mail you. There are plenty of cool off-roading places near Tucson.
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
8/30/2001
14:20:47
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
Robert and TigerDak-
Refreshing to read your point of view. I get very tired of reading the same old "wisdom" in most 4x4 magazines: Computers are bad, ABS is bad, IFS is bad. Heavy is good, brute strength is good, overbuilt is good. Detroit is stupid; I am smart.
I strongly agree that modern, sophisticated designs and components are amazingly capable. And that reengineering to a more primitive design should be done with an awareness of the compromises.
I think the main source of this attitude is the typical American 4x4 magazine. Their biggest advertisers are big aftermarket parts distributors catering to do-it-yourself hobbyists. So of course they want you to rip out your Detroit-designed IFS and stick in a heavy, primitive live axle.
This attitude is evident in virtually everything these magazines publish. I recently read in one of them that "Accepting body damage will make you a better driver." That philosophy seems like it was made-to-order for the folks that sell replacement parts.
Most of us drive 95% of our miles on pavement. Admitting that, and striving toward a machine that's reliable, comfortable, and capable - both on-road and off-pavement - is a much more sane goal. Purpose-built trail rigs are great. But if I were building one, I wouldn't start with a Dakota.
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Robert
Dodge Dakota
8/30/2001
15:36:44
| RE: Help, which lift?
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Message:
J.C.,
Yeah, I hear ya. You just can't make a global statement that one is better or the other. I personally love the IFS design (true IFS, not the goofy double-solid-axle design like the Fords). Among many, many other things, IFS is great for getting ground clearance with suspension lift/larger tire combinations. The ONLY way to get total ground clearance in a true solid axle is from tires. That is why you see them with HUGE tires all of the time. I actually wish production trucks would come out with IRS. They could be beefed up for towing/hauling etc. On a solid axle (like our rears) you cannot achieve differential ground-clearance without larger tires.
I would spend money on beefing up my IFS before I ever went to a solid axle solution... even if it meant building custom A-arms, ball-joints, axles, CV joints, etc. It is truley a better desing in every aspect. If I was going to rip my front-end apart, I would be putting in a bigger truck's IFS in! Haven't seen a Hummer up close, but that comes to mind if I was going to make some major modifications.
With an IFS you get:
Less unsprung weight... a LOT less. The only unsprung weight is the tires, wheels, spindles and half of the A-arm and axle-stub weight. On a solid axle you have a lot of unsprung weight. This consists of the entire solid axle/differential/tires/wheels and half of the front drive-shaft. This means a lot on the road (and off road if speed is involved... can you say Baja Racing? And those vehicles do take a lot of abuse.)
You also get -- by definition -- independent suspension. The toe and camber on one wheel is NOT affected by a change in toe and/or camber on the other wheel. This is also a biggy... on and off road. This is totally the opposite on a solid axle.
The solid axle is so appealing because it is a simpler, bullet-proof (with maybe the exception of the U-Joints.. but that is a weak-link in any configuration) and less expensive design.
My plans for my Dakota is a 3" suspension lift and 33" tires. Of course, I do plan on buying an Expedition after the Dakota is paid for... so who knows what modifications will happen when the Dakota is no longer my daily driver.
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Got Mopar
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
15:37:49
|  RE: Help, which lift?
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My Budy owns desert fox and he specializes in fabrications his name is sunny the nomber is (623)931-8590
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alen
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
01:12:46
|  RE: Help, which lift?
IP: Logged
Message:
I am a builder of offroad vehicles..
i sent you a email..
if you want to go mudding then put in a straight axle suspension.
if you want to do some serious off roading leave
you ifs......a ifs suspension has more travel
than a straight axle, dont get me wrong you can design a straight axle to have as much travel
as you want, but....this is very costly, because
this is called a floating axle...were you use a
ladder bar setup and coil spring,racing shock setup.
as i stated in my email....a ford and dodge are almost identical...and if you want your little dekota in the air, find you a 79 ford hi boy and
take the blocks and u bolts off the rear and coil springs off the front and install them...
alot of people dont know this because many people are not familiar with both vehicles...you will be very impressed with the lift you get...look what it does for a half ton ford.
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Nick
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
22:54:46
| Tucson,AZ-off roading
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I live in NW Tucson and am wondering where there are some good off roading trails or areas.
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