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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
12/07/2003
01:32:27
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 Subject: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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OK. I never thought I would want to LIFT my truck but I was out with a friend and was following his Nissan Desert Runner off road. I scraped a few times. This winter will be my first winter with this truck and I plan on going off road in the snow, etc and would like a small lift. I want to keep what I can of this awesome handling this 4X4 has in the corners.
Can I lift my truck say a small 2 inches front a back and do the front with raising the torsion bars and the rear with blocks?
I'd like to know before I go try it. I'm sure many here allready know how far I can lift the front with simply cranking up the torsion bars. I remember lifting and lowering my friends 1973 Duster several inches each way when we were playing around. But that was like 15 years ago!
Anybody know how far these torsions will lift? And how much stiffer will the ride be?
Thanks in advance.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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12/07/2003
08:45:56
|  RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Lifted mine almost 2" with the torsion bars - ride a little stiffer but didn't think it was too bad. A little pricier way to lift the rear a similar amount would be Roadmaster active suspension - again a little stiffer, but not as bad as add a leafs. I think you tow, and you might like it for the towing handling too.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/07/2003
15:30:24
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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I wouldn't mind a LITTLE stiffer. Right now the truck handles like a Catillac butt when I go over a dip fast it dives down too much too and has bottomed out. OUCH! I just need a LITTLE lift. Barely noticable would be enough and I'd like to NOT go to bigger tires to make it look right like you have to on a bigger lift. I have 3.55 gears and bigger tires would suck.
So. If I want to be CHEAP I can adujst my front up 2 inches by cranking on my torsion bars and then can't I find a 2 inch block for the rear?
I've lifted OTHER peoples rides with the blocks and front spindles and springs. But that was a 6 inch lift!
So what's the roadmaster suspension and how much?
I don't want to spend much especially if I don't like the lift and put it back.
Again thanks for any info.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
17:44:04
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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You can check it out at www.active suspension.com. Your cheap way should work fine - just get your front end re-aligned after changing the height. I raised mine 1 3/4" almost a year ago, no problems. Your QC shouldn't end up as stiff as my RC, I'm pretty sure we both have the same size torsion bars and you weigh more. You might not have as much adjustment if the factory loads the bars more on the heavier trucks, but I'm don't know if they do. The adjusters will turn easier if you jack up the front end, but I'll bet you already knew that. Good luck !
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white dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
19:12:59
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Just how do you go about turning up your torsion bars? I am kinda interested in leveling my dak out a little - wouldn't need to lift it but like an inch. Thanks a lot.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/08/2003
20:26:39
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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White Dak, There is an adjustment bolt under the truck about where the transmission crossmember is. I believe there is a lock nut you loosened first but I haven't touched mine yet and the last time I messed with one was on a 1973 Duster.
If I can get 2 inches and find a 2 inch block for the rear I'd be set.
I'd then be tempted to to get some 31 10.50 tires but I need to swap to 3.92's first and that part isn't cheap!
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white dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
23:17:45
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Thanks - may I also ask is this a suitable job for one person or do i need two? Oh and by the way i am already running 31x10.50 r15 tires on my 97 with stock ride height. Just food for thought. Thanks again.
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MightyQ
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2003
06:57:14
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Fyi graphite dak, I'm running 31x10.50/15 now, have the same gears...3.55, seems to run fine with the bigger tires have plenty of power to move the tires without suffering in econ. it will work but eventualy i would like to put some diff gears when i decide to put my rancho 3inch lift in with bigger tires
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erikrs301
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2003
09:54:11
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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There is a lot of talk on Durango boards about the 2" torsion bar adjustment. I would not suggest using a lift block in the rear though. Blocks can wear your leafs out faster and potentially cause axle wrap which is not pretty.
Other lift options for the rear include longer shackles or an add-a-leaf. Longer shackles will change your pinion angle however I don't know if it's a big problem on something this long(I'm used to lifting Jeeps with short DS's). An AAL will stiffen the rear, add lift and handle loads better. It's simply an additional leaf added to the existing pack. Full length AAL's are good, but there are 'short' AAL's out there and they will destroy leaf packs.
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erikrs301
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2003
09:59:28
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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From Durango Board....
The shackle lift / Torsion bar adjust is an easy and inexpensive way to raise the body of your Durango about 1.75”. Everyone calls this a 2” lift, but actual gain is only about 1.75”.
The first step is to order the shackle for the rear springs. I went with a Western shackle, part number 2001 from Mac’s Springs in California. Total cost including shipping was $35. The other option is Beltech, but I believe that is closer to $70 for virtually the same part. The only other parts you will need are 8 washers (4 per shackle) to fill in some space in the top of the new shackle. I will include pics of where the washers go later in the instructions.
With the parts in hand, you are ready to start wrenching. First thing to do is drop the spare tire and set it to the side. You will also need to remove the tow hitch if you have one. First, unplug the electrical connector at the back of the plug. This is a simple process of pinching the plug to release the lock and pulling it out. Next, you will have to remove the 8 or 10 bolts that hold the hitch to the frame. They are 18mm and will require a socket and extension. You can either use a jack to hold the hitch in place until you remove all the bolts, or a friend comes in handy. I just layed underneath and held it up with my spare hand and leg until I got the last bolt out and then set it aside. It is not really as heavy as I expected, just kind of awkward.
With the obstacles out of the way, jack each side of the rear wheels off the ground using the frame. Use blocks or automotive jack stands to secure the vehicle.
Go to the rear of the springs and remove the bolts holding the shackle in place. It is easiest if you remove the bottom bolt first. This takes the pressure off the top bolt and makes getting it out much easier.
With the shackle out, you will notice that the spring actually wants to go up a little bit, when actually you need it to come down 2”. I used a floor jack between the frame and the spring to push it down. An easier alternative would be a cylinder jack, or a friend pulling down on the spring while you insert a block of wood to push the spring down. A small cylinder jack is perfect because you can adjust the height of the spring, making installation of the new shackle very easy.
When you install the new shackle, insert the top bolt first. This is where you will need the washers. The new shackle is slightly wider than the stock shackle here and the washers fill that space so the shackle does not move from side to side. Some people have used garden hose washers, but I preferred something solid and went to the local hardware store and got some fairly thick washers (about equal to a garden hose washer, or a little less). I took the new shackle with me to compare hole size.
The bottom requires no washers, just insert the bolt and tighten it down. I did not have torque settings, so I just tightened them down good and tight. The nuts are about 19 or 20mm, but I just used vice grips on one side and channel locks on the other.
Once the bolts are tight, you can replace the hitch, lower the D’s wheels to the ground and replace the spare tire. Off to the Torsion bars we go.
Torsion Bar Adjust
The torsion bars are located on the front of the D and go from the front suspension to the crossmember right under the front doors. The bolt you need to adjust us in this cross member under the doors. My bolt was 15/16”, but looking at a 98’, it appeared smaller. You will want to jack the front of the D off the ground so the front tires are at least 2” off the ground. Again, using the frame to jack on. This way you will be “pushing” the wheels down, rather than “lifting” the truck off the wheels. You want to take some type of marking tool, (I used white out), to mark the bolt and the cross member, as well as the socket that you are going to use. This allows you to keep track of the number of revolutions you turn the bolt.
In this picture you can see the white out that is still on there from when I adjusted mine. Each complete turn will raise the front of the D ¼”. Therefore, 8 turns would equal 2”. I would stop at 7 turns and see if the D is level. You can always turn it another turn if you need another ¼”. If you have to lower the front a little bit, always go past where you want to stop about 1 full turn and then adjust back up. You always want to adjust with tension, not removing tension. You will need to lower the D back onto the suspension and then either drive it around a little bit, finding some speed bumps or other “settling” devices. Come back and measure the front and rear fenders above the wheels to see if it is level.
Several people have done this and some got a front end alignment to make sure the camber was still adjusted properly. Those that have had the alignment reported that some adjustment was needed, but others that have not done the alignment have reported no abnormal tire wear as a result of the lift. Use your best judgement. I personally am trying to wear out the stock badyears so I can get a good set of tires and some chrome wheels to dress her up a little bit.
The best thing about this lift is the cost, $35 plus some change for washers, and the fact that it is not permanent, if you don’t like it, just put the stock shackles back on and adjust the torsion bars down.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/11/2003
22:14:39
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Are the blocks really that bad?
We put a 3 inch one on my bro in laws 2000 RAM. Seemed to work ok and it is angled to keep the U-Joint angle true.
I'd like to do soemthing that simple to my Dak. I do want it reliable and I drive pretty hard and fast with it. i don't want to hurt my ride either. I may not lift mine if it can't be done easy and reversed easy.
Any body here used blocks on their Dakota's?
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erikrs301
Dodge Dakota
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12/12/2003
09:19:07
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Rams have heavier springs then Daks and can probably take the abuse. I see a lot of large lift blocks on full size trucks. I'm coming from the Jeep world where the leafs are much softer and there is more weight over the drive wheels then a pick-up. All-in-all, blocks are cheap and easy, but make sure you get something good beause they can break. I ran the cheap aluminum 1" block from GhettoBoyz (PepBoyz) on my XJ, abused it pretty good with 33" Swampers and never broke them although I have seen bigger blocks detonate on the trail. My rear axle was begining to wrap the springs just before I sold that Jeep which was after about a year of use on 13 yr old worn out re-arched leafs.
I know one guy used 1" solid aircraft aluminum that he purchased and cut to his needs. Probably the best block I've ever seen. Maybe go with a 1" block and 2" shackle to achieve a good 3". Durango folks are doing well with the 2" shackle and they have shorter driveshafts.
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Kowlski
Dodge Dakota
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12/12/2003
13:55:03
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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I wouldn't worry about the blocks if you're correcting the drive shaft angle. Don't see how they could hurt the springs, blocks I've seen are about the same size as the spring perches so there's no extra load there.
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erikrs301
Dodge Dakota
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12/12/2003
14:17:48
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Without getting into a physics lesson, think about a pendulum. Longer pendulum has a long swing with the same weight. The block become the shaft of the pendulum and the stress to the spring becomes greater.
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Mopar 4-ever
Dodge Dakota
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12/12/2003
19:05:40
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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erikrs301 is right. The taller the block the more it will flatten out your springs and the more you better check your U-bolt tightness and the greater possibility your springs will spit 'em out and the more they have to be angled to correct pinion angle and the more you'll have wheel-hop or which breaks rear-ends and you can't haul as much in your bed and can you tell I don't care for blocks?!?!!!
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/12/2003
19:50:38
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Damn. Well I don't intend to run HARD on the back roads.
BUT... I run HARD on the city streets and tow a trailer with two Quads in it. I need it to be tough enough for that.
A block would be so easy and CHEAP. The Shackles would cost more.
No problem for me to do the work. I've got a whole garage full of impacts and the sort. I like tools.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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12/13/2003
07:43:44
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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Time to save up and think about the active suspension then ? Thanks for the lesson guys, learned something new today.
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Mopar 4-ever
Dodge Dakota
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12/13/2003
17:55:49
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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If you don't get too crazy with the height of the block, you will be O.K. No more than a two inch block is fine. I still stand behind my opinion of lift blocks. I don't like 'em, but if I'm on a budget like most everybody else I would use them. I really like add-a-leafs and over-load springs for lift and towing. 2001 and down Rams came with factory blocks.If you were towing with a 1500, you could order the camper-special which came with overload springs to prevent any sag and give more stability. If you just use blocks there will be more trailer sway. If you are just pulling a trailer with two quads I guess it would be O.K. We ain't trying to make a 3/4 ton out of your Dak. We're just giving our opinions. Just weigh the pros and cons about each. Decide what you want yourself. Personally, I plan to use add-a-leafs and overload springs with rubber bumpers on either end, and a small torsion bar crank on the front. I don't think it will ride rough or stiff, just firmer. An active suspension would be a great way to go, but I've never used one of them. Good luck.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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12/14/2003
10:47:14
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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I found the active suspension seems to give the extra capacity of the add-a-leafs I've used in the past, without as much extra stiffness to the ride. Been running it a couple years now with great results.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/14/2003
23:15:40
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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I saw a larger truck like a 3/4 ton Ram today. It was lifted with what looked to be body and suspension. He had BLOCKS that looked to be AT LEAST 4 or 5 inches thick. That does look kind of on the scary side to me.
I think IF I lift my truck I may buy a 1 1/2 block if possible and crank my torsions and get a re align. That should be somewhat safe I think for what I do and the torsion tweek may give some added stiffness I need when bouncing over dips off road. My truck seems to come down a little too easy over dips and hit the rubber stoppers pretty hard.
Now. Guess I'd need shocks to accept the lift? Or has anyone done a 1 1/2 lift with stock shocks?
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erikrs301
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2003
08:40:39
| RE: How much lift with the torsion bars?
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If you're only looking for 3" in the rear, how about a 2" shackle and 1" block. A 1" block isn't too bad. You can get shackles for $35 (Western shackle, part number 2001 from Mac’s Springs in California. Total cost including shipping was $35) and get solid blocks. You could also do a full length add-a-leaf and shackle in the rear.
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