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fast80cc
Dodge Dakota
7/12/2001
15:48:50
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 Subject: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Anybody know of a website or book with info for a 1st time off-roader?!? Yeah, something along the lines of "Wheelin' for Dummies". Hey, I know - just go out an do it... Last time I went serious off-roading in a friends CJ we got stuck in a stream bed. Luckily, he had just installed a new elec. winch. Unfortunately, he decided to wrap the cable around a tree up the bank to pull us out. You guessed it - winch on, cable cuts through trunk, tree falls on hood (no lie)!!! I just bought my first 4x4 (RC, 5-spd., 3.9L). Gotta admit, the tire/handling package makes the Dak look like a BAAAAD machine, well at least compared to stock SUVs. I've told myself I'm NOT going to be one of those guys how never gets his 4x4 muddy! I'm looking forward to some snow off-roading in the winter too. Just need to get some hints on how to start, where to go (easier spots first), what NOT to do. Don't mind gettin' dirty but I don't wanna roll the thing either!!! I live in the SF Bay Area (East Bay). Any help would be greatly appreciated...
BTW: The owner's manual doesn't list a max. speed at which I can shift into 4HI (says to be stopped to shift to 4LO). I assume the computer (PCM) will "protect" me from being an idiot and will simply not switch if I'm moving too fast. Is this correct? What would happen if I flipped the switch while doing 70 on the freeway???
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Hawkeye
Gen III
7/12/2001
16:00:33
|  RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Start by getting some recent copies of good magazines like 4 Wheeler or Petersons 4 Wheel & Off Road. Read lots and often. Go out and experiment, carefully and safely of course, and preferably with another 4x4 to help if you get stuck. Start out slowely and see what your truck can and cant do. As for the transfer case, going into 4 hi at 70 would be very bad. I wouldnt go above about 35 (55 is what it is supposed to be able to handle but.....) when going into 4 hi. Even slower would be better.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
32x11.50 BFG AT's
Green Thunder
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andrew
Dodge Dakota
7/13/2001
01:48:02
|  RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Come on out to Sacramento. I will take you to some places near here that make real good learing places. Dont forget your tow strap, but that may be a problems since Dodge didnt make any palces on a stock Dak to be pulled from. Seriously, if your ever in Sacramento, drop me a line and we can go wheelin togeather. I will show you how easy it is to get stuck even with the power of my 5.2. LOL!
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Jason O.
Dodge Dakota
7/13/2001
12:11:04
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Message:
Like Hawkeye suggested, go get some mags, look on-line etc. for some info. From personal exp. I can tell you a few things:
1. Always go with another truck, you wil get stuck at some point.
2. Tow strap!
3. Make sure you truck is in good shape and has fuel.
4. Momentum is your friend. It will carry you through crap better than wildly spinning you tires
5. Becareful of what you can't see like when crossing a stream or a dry lake bed. I got stuck to my frame once when I was crossing. The top salt crust was hideing thick, slimy clay/mud!
6. Have fun but try not to tear up the trails. Its tempting to spray mud and crap all over but it makes a bad name for us all.
Enjoy your new truck!
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E
Dodge Dakota
7/13/2001
13:28:16
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Hey Fast80cc,
What City U in? Im in Oakland, and i'd like to find some decent places to go wheelin. Where do you usualy go? Im not sure if your name implies a dirt bike or kart, but I have a KX250cc and I usually go trail riding out in Livermoor (Carneggie SVRA) which allows 4X4's but the area is not verry large. Then there's Hollister, which has seprate areas for 4x4's and dirt bikes,
but I've never been wheelin there, only riding. I have heard there is a lot of good terrain in the 4X4 park though, anyone framilliar with it?
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fast80cc
Dodge Dakota
7/13/2001
15:02:08
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Andrew and E, thanks for the offers. The "name" does indeed imply a kart. I race often at the Prairie City track (Folsom). I've been thinking about trying out the Off-Road Veh. Park next to the kart track. I see a LOT of guys with some serious 4x4 there though. I suspect it's probably not the place to start (a lot more bikes than 4x4's there). I think the Carneggie site sounds like a good first step. I'm in Alameda, so it's close.
Some other questions:
1) Does a big V8 really matter off-road. I read the perf. guys claims of how terrible the V6 is (probably true with an auto - I've got a 5-spd.). They LOVE making mods. to the 4.7L and most have 2WD Daks. (go drag racing?!?). The Off-Road guys seem to favor the monster motors (5.9L). Isn't it really gearing that counts off-road???
2) How long should my tow stap be? I assume I want more than the usual wimpy 6' ones I've found a Kragen.
3) Does the PCM control the TC shifting on the 2001's (switch system)? This gets back to my question about max. speed to shift into 4HI. If my passenger thinks it would be funny to try flippin' the switch while were cruisin' down the freeway, would the PCM actually try to engage 4HI?
I don't have the nerve to try it...
4) If I want to change rear-end ratios (have 3:55 now), don't I need to change the front TC gears as well??? I've got the T/H package (32" Goodyears). I seems with my anemic V6 it's recommended to go with the 3:92 gears.
5) Do those wimpy factor skid plates actually do anything? Seem pretty thin to me!
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y22man
Dodge Dakota
7/13/2001
17:04:18
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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1)The 4.7/5.9 paired with the grear reduction of the DAK is awsome. I matters a little. With those motors you have more low end tourqe. Which means you can lug it out a little and recover. With a V6 you have to go with more rpms to keep your power as a general rule. More pedal sometimes does more harm than good.
2)I would get a 15 foot Nylon strap. It has a little give so when there is a little slack it is not as bad of a jerk when you are pulling some one out.
3)I am not sure about the electonic engage system that it looks like you have. I have the manual shift. With that you can either put it in or not. I would not advised going over 35 as stated as above but can go to 55. I would not advise useing 4x4 on pavement anyhow. Unless there is icy roads. Stay on dirt/gravel roads with 4x4.
4)Yes, you would have to change the front diff as well. You want all four wheels turning at the same rate or you will burn up your tranfer case and trany. Hence when you have a flat you want to replace it with a full sized spare. If you do not have a full sized spare put the odd size on the rear(this last bit about the spare I can not back up. Heard it only). How did you get 32's with the Tire and Handling pack. I got 31x10.5 with the t and h pack.
5)Those skid plates do look flismy. But they do the trick. Granted you a new to wheeling but if your skid plates do not protect anything when you need something. You should go on eaiser terrain. If it were me I would drill some pretty good size holes in them so they can drain and get the dirt build up off it as well.
That is my 2 cents. Please no flame. This is what I have learned in my expirence. Here is me playing at Moab 2000
http://photos.yahoo.com/ciscoookid
Jay
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fast80cc
Dodge Dakota
7/13/2001
19:18:24
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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My mistake! I'm sure the tires are 31" (hard to measure when they're new w/full tread). Couldn't find any markings stating diameter. I'm used to going by tread width x wheel size (235 x 16) but you 4x4 guys seem to relate more to tire diameter. Holes in the skid plates sounds like a good idea. I've heard I'll need them (in front anyway) when I do my first oil change (to let the oil that ALWAYS seems to spill out of a filter run out).
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andrew
Dodge Dakota
7/13/2001
20:33:35
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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I too have been out o prairy city and would not dare take mu Dak out there even though I have see worse. I just bought a tow strap. I think it was a 30 foot that can hold some rediculous amount and its amde by Pro Comp and cost me $50.00. I also bolted on some hooks up front and will add some in the back to tow people from. I go to a little less severe place in Rocklin.
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rEID tARDO
Dodge Dakota
7/15/2001
18:31:30
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Dont forget to get a Hi-Lift Jack...and a good shovel
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Hawkeye
Gen III
7/15/2001
19:05:04
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Fast 80, A v6 in a Dak will do just fine off road. Off roading is more about torque than HP. Actually, as far as the tranny goes, you really want an auto for off roading. The torque converter multiply's torque. You can pull someone out much easier because you can keep a constant pressure on the strap. A stick has a harder time doing this without burning up the clutch. The slightly lower gears will help out with the lower power of the V6. As y22man said, a V8 does it easier but a V6 can still do it. Just has to be done a little more carefully and tactfully. Good friend of mine had a 2wd extended cab 95 F150 with the 300 straight 6 in it and went almost everywhere I did with a V8 4x4, especially at the beach. The driver really plays a huge part in off roading.
'00 QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
32x11.50 BFG AT's
Green Thunder
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
7/22/2001
18:23:07
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Sorry for the late response, I just discovered this forum today.
An excellent book is "Off-Roader Driving" by Tom Sheppard (Desert Winds Publishing, ISBN 0-9532324-2-5). It's a British book and most of his experience is with Land Rovers, but an excellent source. Lots of theory, backed up with loads of experience.
Another book I have seen recommended many times but have not read is "4-Wheel Freedom" by Brad DeLong. You can buy that at:
http://www.4x4books.com/4wf.htm
One of the things I like about Tom Sheppard's "Off-Roader Driving" is the emphasis on using technique rather than brute force. He doesn't want to see your truck damaged any more than you do. Contrast that with the attitude you see in most American 4x4 magazines. They would have you believe that unless you're breaking axles every other weekend you can't possibly be having any fun.
A good website is:
http://4x4abc.com/4WD101/index.html
Not so much about technique, but it does explain a lot about what four wheel drive is and isn't. For instance, unless you've installed locking differentials front and rear, your truck isn't putting power to all four wheels equally, nor would you want it to. Because you might break an axle, like the magazines show folks doing all the time.
I suggest getting comfortable with your truck in various off-road conditions before making any modifications. Think of the pickup as a tool and the trail as a task. If it does the job, fantastic. If not, then figure out what to do to make it a more appropriate tool. Lots of modifications turn out to be much more expense than they are worth. Many actually make the truck less capable rather than more. The Dakota is amazingly cabable right out of the box. The most useful thing I've added to my Dakota is an air compressor. Do you know about airing down your tires? Do you know how low to go?
Reading back through this thread I see a few folks here in Northern California. I live in Silicon Valley and spend a fair amount of time up in the Central Sierra. I'd be happy to share a few favorite places. And learn about some new ones. Anybody interested a one- or two-day trip?
cheers,
-J.
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fast80cc
Dodge Dakota
7/23/2001
02:27:08
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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J.C., thanks for the post. I'll see if Amazon or Barnes&Noble has the Sheppard book available. It seems like the most useful "addition" is a simple tow-strap (well, that and a friend in another 4x4). I remember hearing about a course run by Rover in the U.S. which demonstrates how to navigate over common off-road obstacles (tree trunks, etc.). My first step (I think), is to get a feel for how the truck handles on loose surfaces. BTW: The DC shop manual states that the PCM (computer) does, indeed, monitor and control the transfer case. The unit will not shift unless the computer determines "that the proper conditions have been met". Of course the manual doesn't state what THAT means! I have no plans to make my Dak into a 4x4 monster (33" or larger tires, lift kits, etc.). It's a commute vehicle that I use to haul things with. A 2WD truck would have worked fine for that. I spent the extra $2k (approx.) for 4WD so that I could have a little fun with the truck too. So far, the V6 seems like it has enough torque to pull me up anything I'd dare attempt. I love this truck! The ONLY downside are the seats. I can imagine that a day of really bouncin' off-road would lead to a rather sore rear end!
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
7/23/2001
13:27:58
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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You might also be interested in the how-to clinics put on by various 4x4 clubs under the umbrella of the California Association of 4WD Clubs. There's one September 22 or 23 at Hollister Hills. Another at Prairie City near Sacramento on September 29 or 30.
See:
http://www.espritdefour.com/
or:
http://cal4wheel.com
I took the Hollister Hills course shortly after buying my truck and recommend it highly. The most valuable thing you'll get out of it is learning what your Dakota is capable of under controlled conditions, with an experienced spotter to keep you out of trouble. Later you'll use that experience on your own or with friends.
If you can't wait until September, give me a shout and we'll plan a day of wheeling.
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Harry
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/07/2004
19:48:05
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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i want to get a suspension lift for my 2000 4WD f150, but i dont know much about trucks, i was looking at a six inch fabtech suspension lift, or a rancho four inch lift. I was going to add a three inch body lift to either of them. What are the downfalls to either of these lifts? and what are the biggest tires i can put on either of those.
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MIke E
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2004
17:03:46
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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My buddy used to have a 94 2wd... we took that thing off road all the time...got stuck all the time too...one suggestion is not to try and keep up with your 4x4 buddies in a 2wd truck...now i have a 2000 2wd...i dont think its gunna be seein any mud pits anytime soon :)
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brandou10l
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/10/2004
10:09:05
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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i have an 87 dak 4x4 33's and 4.10 with a locker outback. i bought it a few years ago for offroading. i few things i learned:
be sure ur truck is mechanically sound, check the u joints, i had one break 4 wheelin, there not fun to change on the trail. check the fluids, hoses. etc. make sure the breather tubes are in good condition or u will fill up your diffs or t- case with water or mud. i have done this on the transfercase cost me a rebuild.
yes u should always go with someone, or have someone to call.
u want to have a tow strap thats atleast a 25,000-40,000 pound rating dont cheap out on this. the cheesy one that cost 20 bucks are crap they snap easly expect to pay about 45-60 bucks for this. u want one that has thick loops and about 30-70 feet long. u will also need a assortment of clevis's or hooks for hooking up that beautiful strap to ur truck or a chian. dont hook the strap up directly to the chain it will tear it a new one.
also have a very very strong pulling spot in the middle of the 2 frame rails, front and back.
the front has a massive crossmember. i have welded 2 clevi to it, and the rear i have a custom hitch welded to the frame. if ur stuck in mud it takes a tremendous amount of force to get u out. usually requires hard yanking and u dont want a hook flying off and busting a head or a truck.
also as far as driving ability i think its just something that comes natrually. it depends on how hard u want to beat ur truck and how big ur balls are.
and always have a 12 pak in the truck for the adventure, this will come in real handy. if ur truck does break u can always just sit back and have a beer, or if not beer can enhance ur trucks abilities tremendously.
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brandou10l
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/10/2004
10:30:38
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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oh by the way the max speed for shifting in to 4wd is about 40-50. whats happening is theres a sycronizer on the hub that drives the front driveshaft. and like the gears in the manual trans it will not engage unless the 2 are spinning at the same speed. when u push 4wd button or shift, the fork moves back pushing in the sycronizer which spins the drivshaft until its spinning the same as the rear and it engages. and by the way u shouldnt drive in 4wd above 20mph on dry pavement becuase of the small diffrences of the diameter of the tires. it will cause extreme pressure on the driveline components. if u were to shif into 4wd going 70
it problably wont do anything. but it wouldnt be good for it thats for sure
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erckota4x4
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/11/2004
21:54:02
| RE: Wheelin' for Dummies
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Didnt read all these post but the most important thing is to get out there and experiment. As far as mud is concerned make sure u see how deep it is before u hit it. U can do some serious damage with mud and anything offroad.
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