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CasuObserver
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2002
22:11:12
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 Subject: LSD *and* 4wd?
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Did anyone here deliberately get both LSD and 4wd on their vehicles? What is the reasoning behind it?
(Besides the fact that you might be required to order LSD together with a towing package, to keep the DC manufacturing logistics a bit simpler).
In practice, do you find that this combination gives you any big advantage?
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cadetdak
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2002
00:33:16
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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I have a LSD and 4WD. works great keeps the rear end from slipping around off road as well as when I'm running in 2wd on the freeway works great.
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JP
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2002
01:00:29
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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LSD simply provides additional traction for either 2 or 4 wheel drive vehicles. An open differential allows power to go to the wheel with the least amount of traction. LSD directs at least a portion of the power to the wheel with the most traction. Keeping in mind that pickups are light in the rear, LSD gets more power to the ground under all conditions. 4 wheel drive with LSD is simply more off-road capable.
JP '01 SLT+ CC 4.7 AWD LSD
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Knobbyman
*GenIII*
8/10/2002
02:11:11
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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Basically.. if you had 4wd w/o LSD .. and you spun your tires only one in front and one in rear...
You need some sort of locker in the differential to transfer the power to the wheel that is not slipping.
LSD transfers some of the power but in real 4x4's you'd want a full locker.
LSD works on the streets where as a full locker would make your tires chirp on the turns. That's why OEM offers LSD instead of full lockers.
Also if you have LSD in the rear and open in the front you really have a 4x3.
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
6" Suspension Lift
305x70x16 GoodYear MT/R's
http://www.knobbyman.com
----Speed only breaks it faster----
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CasuObserver
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2002
09:40:53
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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OK...
Thanks for the input.
Having had LSD in my last car and open diffs forever before that, including a couple of larger 4x4s, it seems to me that by the time you really needed LSD you'd be shifting into 4WD anyways. And then, if you're sliding around & spinning out in 4wd with sharp tires so much, you'd be pretty well into locker territory.
So, I still don't see the point & extra expense of having both 4wd & LSD. If 4wd isn't enough, then adding a good locker seems way better, because the extra little bit of torque redistribution from LSD left/right should be much less than than that what you'd get from a powered front axle, right?.
From what I've read, the better lockers are quite transparent on dry roads, essentially just clicking on & off starting & ending turns. Finally, the two bugaboos of straight-ahead fishtailing and getting caught in a dead slippery inside corner in the wintertime should be avoidable if you're in 4hi at the time, right?
I know there are threads here about using lockers in the wintertime, and a few people find them worse than useless (although one guy in Alaska finds them great). Also, there's the problem of forcing people to order LSD with the towing package, despite having 4wd. Which is why I'm kicking this problem around right now, and trying to find a compromise.
I think I'd still just run open diffs with part-time 4wd & keep a set of tall sharp tires handy. And then install a locker for a couple of seasons just for kicks in a year or so.
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GRiD
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2002
20:06:21
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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My truck came with 4wd and LSD. It has proven to be a bad ass off roader for Stock. I can still fishtail around gravel pits in 2wd, and climb almost anything. Driving over some fallen trees didn't cause any problems either.
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Ed Halterman
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2002
21:11:05
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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When I got my truck, '01 QC 4.7 4x4, the dealer laughed when I opted for no LSD. Why?? I put in a Powertrax No Slip locker in last May, and I love it!! I can do things in 2wd that some guys have to be in 4wd to do, crawling through ruts, rocks, and muddy rutty trails is where it comes in real handy. Too bad we can't put one in front due to the front axle design and Dodge's bright idea of changing the front axle on '00+ models that we have no gear options out, for now I hope. Of course, the BFG AT/KO's have alot to do with it as well.......
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CasuObserver
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2002
21:18:16
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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Ed,
Any snow/ice around where you're at?
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Ed Halterman
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2002
21:49:34
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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If there is, I have to go find it here in 106* today Sunland, Ca (n/e San Fernando Valley near LA). Seriously, I haven't tried it out in snow yet, but I can imagine that on the icy stuff, you would be all over the place with all wheels grabbing for traction, I would just park it, or crawl along. I hope it snows in the local mtns this winter so I can try it out :)
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CasuObserver
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
00:26:15
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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You know, I really wonder about all the locker fishtailing complaints. The only time that LSD really saved my a## was when I managed to crab up a couple miles of curved paved residential freeway in my car after a 2-foot dump of wet snow. It was fishtailing then pretty good, too. (These conditions are exactly when you do *not* want to have to park anything.)
I had good sharp snow tires at the time. The back end of the car just pointed straight downhill like a pendulum, and the car sort of crabbed sideways uphill in whatever direction the front wheels were pointed, to follow the road. First gear low rpms.
So, with a rear locker and a powered front axle, decent clearance and good tires, I just can't see that it would be worse, especially with some big old heavy piece of scrap iron or sand bags in the box.
Worst I ever experienced was driving a newer 3/4-ton 4-spd 4x4 company truck w/ 460 motor & open diffs up an unplowed road, pushing show over the hood and driving through washouts and ditches 3 feet deep. Never even thought about spinning a wheel. (Mind you, I was carrying 5 roller-reamers and a Monel sub in the box at the time :)).
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dirtdemon
GenIII
8/11/2002
00:49:59
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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ED,
Where did you get the powertrax locker? and who installed the locker/cost? I'm close to San Fernando was it 4wheelparts? I have a LSD....its works ok..It doesn't always send power to both wheels. Maybe the plates are going bad? So, I want a real locker now. To make sure I have 100% power to both wheels.
00 CC, 4X4 SPORT, 4.7, 3.55 LSD, GIBSON EXHAUST, K& N , 32x11.50 BFG MUD T/A KM
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Ed Halterman
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
01:15:29
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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I bought it used from a member of the Dakota Mailing List last year and 19,000 miles ago for $250. they cost about $450 new. 4 Wheel Parts does not sell them, try Off Road Unlimited in Burbank comes to mind because it's up the street from my work. As for the install, I put it in myself, also if you have a lsd, take it to a shop to have it done, you have to remove the whole carrier to install it, not cheap or easy to do. Not required to remove the carrier for open diffs. I had a open diff, and it took me only 2hrs to put it in, real simple. How close are you to Azusa?? If I get some time off work, I'm gonna try to go there on a weekend day if you're game, I'll get Rob (ss454 from here) to go as well, just lmk. I also put one in on a buddy's Durango, there's a write up here www.socaldoc.com and look for our "install party"
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2002
10:04:57
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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I installed a Dana Spicer LSD in the rear. And, yes, it has saved my butt more than once. Any type of rear locker is a great modification on a 4x4! One of the best things you can do to your offroad truck.
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2002
13:09:59
| RE: LSD *and* 4wd?
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I've asked for a Powertrax no-slip for x-mas, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Truckperformance.com has 'em for around $400. Reiderracing.com also has 'em, don't know price. Have set up gears before, w/0.006" backlash, etc. so install should be peice of cake, only need wrench and screwdriver. Apparently, you can also put one in a diff already equipped with an LSD.
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