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General Dakota Board
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Vic
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
01:02:34
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 Subject: RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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jeremiah2360, I went to bulkpart but got confused by all the numbers, etc for the parts for my 45FRE 5 sp transmission fluid change. Can you give me a list of their part numbers you ordered for your change? Thanks.
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
18:44:52
|  RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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Spin on filter---52922--$10.99
Reg filter-------52921--$7.98
Cork pan gasket--52140--$3.72
I re-used the gasket for the spin on filter, don`t forget to order one like i did.(you should be able to spot it on the order page somewhere)
The cork filter is not recomended,when i changed it out (changed at 10k then 30k) it was cracked in places. Pieces could fall into pan(filters would catch the pieces i guess but still). Use the "Right stuff" by permatex.
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Vic
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
07:07:59
|  RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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Thanks! Jeremiah. Will order right away.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/03/2004
11:02:29
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF
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WOW !!! 45 prior posts on this thread, and I don't think a one was mine ;-) --- so here goes --- Information For Those Interested ---
Maybe you will find this to be good reading.
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Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+4 in less than ten years. Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems with some of the transmissions from the mid 1990's.
However, I know many Dodge owners that have noticeable and significant improvements switching to Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF. They state that the transmission characteristics are better than when it was new. Yes we all know ... transmissions from different manufacturers use various types of clutch pack materials. So ... is it possible to formulate a single fluid that will behave differently in GM, Ford and Chrysler transmissions? The specifications for friction characteristics are for how the fluid behaves in the particular application, given the types of materials used in that transmission. They are not the stand alone properties of the fluid, which is where I think the misunderstanding comes in.
Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF is truely "Universal"
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Amsoil did offer a Synthetic ATF specifically for ATF +3/+4 applications about 3-4 years ago. However once they were able to integrate this additive chemistry into their Dexron/Mercon formulation, they discontinued making this second fluid.
__________________________________________________
To request a FREE Amsoil Catalog click the following link
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/03/2004
11:04:06
| Amsoil reports DC ATF+4 complaint filed
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FYI (and read between the lines as to how D/C unfairly treats its customers)
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
ILMA: DaimlerChrysler Unfair to Independents
Reported in "LUBE REPORT"
Industry News from the highly respected Lubes-n-Greases Trade Magazine
Wednesday, November 19, 2003
By Tim Sullivan
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
The association said the automaker has blocked blenders from making and selling its ATF+4 fluid – which was adopted in 1999 and is now recommended for most Chrysler vehicles. In addition it accused the company of leveraging its monopoly on the transmission fluid to muscle motor oil sales away from lubricant companies.
“To Chrysler, this probably is another revenue stream for a product code,” Executive Director Celeste Powers said. “However, to ILMA members this is unfair competition which hurts motorists.”
Chrysler first advised dealers in October 1999 that it had begun factory filling certain vehicles with ATF+4 and that they should service those vehicles with the same fluid, instead of the previous fluid, ATF+3. Two years later, the company advised that ATF+4 should be used in all vehicles with automatic transmissions except minivans built before 2000.
The association’s complaint said that Lubrizol is the exclusive manufacturer of chemistry for ATF+4 and that DaimlerChrysler has contracted Petro-Canada and ChevronTexaco to supply the fluid. The complaint said ILMA members that marketed earlier versions of the fluid requested the ATF+4 formula from DaimlerChrysler but were turned down. Members also contacted Lubrizol, ChevronTexaco and Petro-Canada but were told that those companies’ contracts with the automaker prohibited them from sharing the formula or reselling the fluid.
According to the complaint, such practices violate provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits automakers from conditioning warranties on the use of named oils or parts unless the automaker provides them for free or demonstrates that available alternatives will not function adequately.
The association noted that other automakers avoid the problem by licensing products that meet their specifications. ILMA officials said DaimlerChrysler has made formulas and specifications for previous fluids available to blenders.
The association said it urged DaimlerChrysler a year ago to establish a licensing program for ATF+4 and has tried several times since then to engage the company in discussions. ILMA legal counsel Jeffrey L. Leiter said the association has received no response.
“We tried to work this out with them but they’ve ignored us at every step of the way,” he said.
DaimlerChrysler did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The complaint said DaimlerChrysler “has taken its anticompetitive actions… one step further ”by allowing dealers to buy bulk volumes of ATF+4 only in combination with bulk purchases of their own Mopar brand motor oil. Dealers that decline the offer incur greater costs to buy the transmission fluid in smaller volumes.
ILMA’s complaint asked the trade commission to investigate its allegations and to compel DaimlerChrysler to cease its practices. Officials acknowledged that the case does not involve a large amount of ATF+4, but said they are concerned about the possibility of other automakers imitating DaimlerChrysler’s actions.
“If Chrysler can get away with this, it will embolden other original equipment manufacturers, so ILMA had to take a stand,” Powers commented.
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My Opinion: That is why ATF+4 is expensive and also why D/C Dealers push the Mopar brand of oil ... to obtain the bulk discount prices on the ATF+4.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/03/2004
11:15:32
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF --- Referrals
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Speaking of Amsoil Customers that are satisfied with Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ---
I am going to quote two Members of DodgeDakotas.com, BigBlue QC (He won't mind ... I have exchanged emails with him on a few occassions), and Larry of J and J Auto.
BigBlue QC states:
"I have had perfect luck with AMSOIL ATF in my trans, it has been in the truck for 60000 miles, tested twice, with perfect results each time. Good luck. 14 quarts for a complete flush, another 1-1/2 quarts if you have a 4x4 for the transfer case, which you have to drain and re-fill. You will need a pump for the transfer case to re-fill. If you bought whatever you decide locally why can't you return whatever you don't open??? Having an extra 2 quarts on hand while doing this is not a bad thing as a just in case."
" ... the 14 quarts is with the tranny cooler as I have one also." "... it has been over a year since I changed the transfer case to AMSOIL ATF. I remember filling to the hole level and then buttoning it up. Haven't had any problems with it. I am a preferred customer for AMSOIL (I pay the $20/year to get the wholesale pricing) and I remember it is cheaper to get the bigger jugs of fluid, like 2-1/2 gallons, when you need larger quantities. 2-1/2 gallons is 10 quarts, if you got two of them it should be enough for the trans, transfer case, and power steering. Yes, I have changed the power steering fluid in my truck to AMSOIL ATF also(my year uses ATF+4 as the ps fluid) with no regrets."
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Everyone Respects Larry of J and J Auto
........ correct? ... YES !!!
Here is his quote from another thread (hope you don't mind Larry!)
Larry of J and J Autostated:
"Amsoil Universal Trans fluid or the Chrysler ATF+4 are the only fluids we use in these trans at the shop.
I have been running it (Amsoil) in my trans for about 30,000 miles now, made the trans shift smother and run almost 30 degrees cooler. I also run it in my transfer case.
I run all Amsoil even the rear ends and grease it with the syn fortified with molly. Yes I have a trans temp guage in my truck also a nordask Air/Fuel meter on its own o2 so I can monitor my stroker very closely
The Amsoil runs very good in these transmissions."
Larry
J&J Auto
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Thanks BigBlue QC and Larry of J and J Auto!
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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BamaTech
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
14:23:03
|  RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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But if you talk with dodge on vehicles under waranty they will not cover the component if anything other than mopar is used . There is also a bulletin floating around that states they do not accept using special fluid in engines rear diff. and treans either ........
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/03/2004
16:26:16
| Amsoil ATF Warranty Issues
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First and foremost, there is no way for the dealer to test to see what brand of lubricant you are using, they will only want to see maintenance records to see that maintenance was performed on a timely basis. If this is a concern, this can be accomplished by keeping sales receipts of your purchases and taking photos of your odometer.
Warranty issues can be a pain in the butt even if the dealer has performed all maintenance with OEM supplies.
(Note: I purchase and use Amsoil lubricants and filters EXCLUSIVELY and take the products to a local "Quickie Lube", or a friendly mechanic or garage, and let them perform the change. They charge a "nominal fee" for this service --- since I provide the lubricants and filters --- similar to a corking fee when you bring your own bottle "BYOB" of wine, or your own beer, to a restaurant.)
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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DUH
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
18:20:20
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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You mean the receipts of the Amsoil!
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JES
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2004
11:33:18
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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Did my tranny and xfer case over the weekend. Used just shy of eight quarts of ATF+4 in the tranny and about two quarts in the xfer case. Fluid cost me $17 a gallon at Diehl-Preston Dodge in Butler, PA and the filters (flat and spin-on in one kit) cost me $16.99 at Autozone. Did a complete tranny drain and filter change, and a xfer case drain and fill for less than $60 -- not too shabby. Dealer wanted $169 just for the tranny drain and fill w/ filters.
Eric -- http://photos.yahoo.com/jes_96
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2004
16:49:51
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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JES, would you have the part # for filter kit from Autozone?(were they filtran filters) What did you use for the the pan gasket?(just curious) Thanks.
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rivermaniac
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2004
01:14:25
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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amsoil dude , what about people complaining about leaks in their trans or motor after changing over to synthetic ????????
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2004
02:46:45
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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If your eng and trans are sound you shouldn't get seal leaks. Synthetics help sound engines and tranmissions last longer, it doesn't bring them back from the grave.
I have 100K+ on my Dak and it doesn't use oil or leak. Changed it over to synthetics when I bought it at 60K.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/06/2004
08:22:56
| Synthetic Oils Cause Seal Leakage? Amsoil says NO
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Q. I sometimes hear "Synthetic oils contain detergents that can make the oil seals leak in older cars." Is this really an issue? How old would a car have to be to not use synthetics?
A. All synthetic lubricants have an inherent detergency that cleans and removes conventional motor oil deposits left over in an engine. However, all motor oils are designed to help swell seals slightly to prevent leakage. The only time you would observe seal leakage is if the seals are already damaged or showing signs of leakage around them. As long as the vehicle has been well maintained, and in good mechanical condition, it can be switched to a synthetic lubricant at any mileage.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/06/2004
10:01:26
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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Clarification:
No synthetic oil on the market today will cause your seals or gaskets to leak. If you already have a bad seal or gasket, and there is a false seal of gunk, crud, and/or sludge, you may develop leaks if you change to synthetic (or for that matter --- even if you switch to a better dino or non-synthetic).
Motor Oils and Lubricants are comprised of a combination of base oils, PAO's and Esters, and additives.
PAO's shrink seals, and Esters swell seals. So the net effect is to neutralize seal shrinkage and/or swelling.
If you develop leaks after switching --- synthetics are not the "cause" of the leaks. If your gaskets are old or dried out, or they have developed a false seal of gunk, crud, and/or sludge --- switching to synthetics may result in a leak. Bottom Line --- if your seals are already damaged --- if you have "crud" sealing the leak, --- the extra cleaning properties of a synthetic (or a BETTER dino or non-synthetic) may clean out the "crud" --- and result in a leak.
Repeat: As long as the vehicle has been well maintained, and in good mechanical condition, it can be switched to a synthetic lubricant at any mileage.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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JES
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2004
11:02:11
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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jeremiah -- sorry, i don't have the p/n for the filter kit ... simply went in and asked them for the kit for my truck. They are filtrans ... looked identical to what came out of the tranny. I used Permatex 589BR (Black) for the pan ... no leaks ... made sure the trans and pan were nice and clean before I put the Permatex on. Hope this helps.
Eric
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2004
18:18:34
| RE: Transmission Fluid Change
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It helped. Thanks JES.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/08/2004
11:31:53
| Synthetic Oils Cause Seal Leakage? Amsoil says NO
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Rivermaniac,
In order to provide as much information as possible, let me explain the story behind leaking gaskets/seals.
AMSOIL lubricants are all tested for seal compatibility with all the seal materials in use with industry accepted testing methods. AMSOIL Products will not damage seals or be more prone to leaking than petroleum products when used in vehicles with undamaged seals. Unfortunately, high mileage vehicles and equipment that have been using petroleum lubricants for long periods of time face the risk that sludge and deposits have built up in the engine and created a false seal, and the seal itself has dried out and cracked or shrunk. Lubricants help condition seals, keeping them supple and slightly swelled to insure a proper seal with no leaks. When covered with sludge or deposits, the seal will deteriorate. Now you start using AMSOIL motor oil with it’s high quality additive package and natural detergency, and you start to clean up the engine. The false seal is cleaned away, and if the seal itself has become cracked or damaged, a leak will develop. The same thing occurs in transmissions and differentials. Because of this, many people think that synthetic oil is more prone to leaking, when all it really is doing is revealing the problem that petroleum oil deposits had created and kept hidden. Once the damaged seals are properly replaced, keep using the synthetic oil and they won’t leak again.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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