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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
01:48:07
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 Subject: Rear Diff Destructed!
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My differential had a melt down the other day. 60k miles on a limited slip. Driving straight everything worked fine but taking turns produced some serious wheel hop. I dismantled it and found a few chunks of metal floating around (NOT GOOD). Good news is that the gears are all in perfect shape and there is no damage to the differential. After identifying the peices needed I went to Dodge to see about some new parts. I was told I could only buy the entire limited slip assembly for about $750-800. I went to an axle/gear shop and they sold the inner parts I needed for about $65. Anyway...now that I'm getting ready to install it I'm not entirely sure how to adjust the backlash. I'd hate to waste the gears after getting off pretty cheap so far. I didn't have to take the pinion gear off so I'm thinking that it shouldn't need to be adjusted? Any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks in advance.
I'd hate to have to take the axle in and have someone else do it.
JB
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Buggy-Bumpers
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
05:13:17
|  RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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You wouldn't have had this problem if you had changed the rear end fluid at the proper interval.
That noise you heard was the locker not releasing properly.
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Dodgedogjb
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
16:32:49
|  RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Buggy---> How do you know I didn't change the fluid at the proper intervals? I didn't say that this was the original fluid. Besides, if you read the manual it never recomends changing the fluid for Schedule A and every 12k miles for Schedule B. Either way, the noise I heard while cornering was from the thrust washers retention plate being broken and getting hung up. This didn't let the wheels spin at different rates. But more importantly I wanted to thank you for the helpful information you gave me on the question I asked. Being an expert in the fluid changing area as your post implies I would expect that you would also have some advice on backlash adjustment.
I should note that the failure was a material defect and not from improper fluid level or cleanliness. This I know because it is what I do for a living, i.e. failure analysis of metal parts for a large auto manufacturer. But again...thanks for the help.
Anyone have any useful information? I appreciate it.
JB
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
17:20:29
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Same thing happened to my differential, but I had 95K on the truck before it happened. Thrust washers and first clutch pack disc on each side were broken and loose in the differential. I didn't have any damage to the gears either, and upgraded to the PowerTrax unit. No special adjustments are needed other than making sure you have the proper thickness thrust washers installed so the clutches work like they are supposed to. The PowerTrax gets rid of the clutch pack all together and is more solid than factory limited slip. Was about $400 for it, but I feel it is much better than the clutch packs. Little noisy around corners though. But, since you already have the parts, just make sure to get them in correctly, and that the proper thickness thrust washer is installed. Not sure what the spec is, but shouldn't be too hard to find. I woudl suggest the shop you bought the parts from.
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Rob454
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
21:06:35
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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As long as you install the diff the same way it came out IE install all the side shims if any. if you jsut took the diff out replaced the clutch pack and you dont have any shims on the sides of the diff between the diff and axle tube ends than you odnt need to adjsut the backlash. you shoudlnt have to adjsut it unless you removed the pinion gear
Rob
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
02:06:06
|  RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Okay....I'm having a hard time getting everything back together. I got the differential back in and everything is seated correctly with the right amount of play. I put the new clutch packs in got the side gears and the c-clips on. Well it appears the new clutch packs are just slightly thicker because I can't get the pinion gear shaft in between the axles without prying them apart. I even tried using the old clutch packs with the new thrust washer but that only slightly improved the situation and I'd really like to use the new ones. How tight is it supposed to be?
I can't get the pinion gears in either but perhaps thats because the axle spacing is to small. Anybody have any tricks for getting this together?
Thanks for the help.
JB
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Al_Dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
02:53:04
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Ok, I think you guys just answered the problem I've been having. On sharp right turns and moderate acceleration, I get a "wheel hop". Have been for a while, but didn't know what it was. Only happens on right turns.
I have 26,000 miles on my 2001 Dak.
Any idea how long a rear diff will take? I got the Dak before the 7 year thing, and have spent more money on a rental car than I care to talk about with my Dak in the shop over the last year.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
10:59:09
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Not sure how tight it's supposed to be, but there has to be a little pressure on the clutch pack for it to work properly. When you say pinion gear shaft, I'm assuming you mean the pin that holds the spider gears in. If yu can get it in without to much force(bigger hammer method) than I think it shoudl be fine.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
10:59:21
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Not sure how tight it's supposed to be, but there has to be a little pressure on the clutch pack for it to work properly. When you say pinion gear shaft, I'm assuming you mean the pin that holds the spider gears in. If yu can get it in without to much force(bigger hammer method) than I think it shoudl be fine.
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
13:00:08
|  RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Yes...I mean the spider gears. My Chiltons manual refers to them as pinion gears but I don't know why since they don't contact the pinion in any way.
I'm not to concerned about the tightness provided I can get the gears in, which at this point I can't seem to do. If I could get the spider gears in I could get the shaft in but I just can't get the damn gears in.
Al_Dak---> If you only have 26,000 miles at least the work will be done under warrenty. You may just need new fluid and additive if the inards are ok. You can't really be sure until you tear it apart. As far as how long it should take I would assume a few hours if they had the parts. Of course that probably means you'll have to leave it all day.
JB
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
14:09:13
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Backlash only needs to be adjusted if you have to replace the ring and pinon.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
14:58:50
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Have you tried putting the truck in nuetral and with the wheels off the ground, rotating the axles to spin the side gears. That way you can kinda turn the spider gears in, but will have to do both at same time.
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Art
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
15:16:34
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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You know you need a tool to compress the bellville springs,they are what puts pressure on the clutch packs,the 2 side gears that have the clutch packs have to be pressed in the springs are holing them down to far and make it a pain in the ass to the other spiders in and then the pin,also make sure those retainer clips that hold the clutch packs together didnt move,ive struggled with this before the tool makes it so much easier,one time i used to 2 brass wedges shaped like doorstops and hammered them in together to force the gears up and compress the springs,worked but was a pain in the ass,thats whats holding you up you gota force them 2 gears up to compress the springs either with the proper tool or rig something up
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
15:40:21
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Art---> Thanks for the info. I was afraid I might need a tool. Are you refering to the thrust washer(what I thought it was)that goes between the side gears and the clutch pack as being the Bellville springs? They do have a dome shape to them but I didn't realize they were springs that could be compressed, but that makes sense. Hmmm...I guess I need a tool.
Thanks
JB
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Jesse
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
15:59:44
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Sense were talking about this, maybe yall can help me out with my problem, mine is where I first take off i get bad wheel hop and then it stops, the other thing is on hills, like if im trying to go up a hill it will wheel hop real bad that I have to kinda just ease the gas to make it up. Anyone
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
16:20:34
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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JB, I think he is talking about springs behind the clutch pack, not real sure though, but it does make sense now. The PowerTrax has springs, but they are right in the center and easy to get to.
Jesse:
Are you srue it's wheel hop, and not just the engine cutting out?? When was the last time you changed cap/rotor and sprak plugs???
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Art
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
17:31:50
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Yes those domed washers are the springs in a trac-lock diff,they are called belleville springs and they put the pre-load force on the clutch packs,power-trax is a different type of limited slip uses springs. As you just found out when the clutch packs are worn it comes apart pretty easy but new clutch packs make it hard to re-install without the tool,the tool has a cup that goes over one the side gears and a threaded rod and cup on other end and pushed down on one and pulls the other up compressing those springs,see if you can rent it
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Jesse
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
17:43:40
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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I am so sure that it is the rear end, that bad boy hops! Then only time that it dont hop is when I take off real slow and then go. But if I try to accelerat a lil fater taking off, normal take off the rear end hops hard. lots of wheel hop. As far as my truck being tuned up, belive me its all tuned and ready to go.
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Diffdude
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
19:35:48
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Hey, what kind of rear diff oil does Dodge put in?
I got my 2001 CC 2wd 31000 miles used and the oil is nasty black in there.
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DodgedogJB
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
02:03:28
|  RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Okay....its all back together. All that I can say is what a pain in the arse. Here is the procedure I used, whether its ideal or not you can decide for yourself. I would not have been able to do this alone, two other friends is about right so make sure you have some beer.
With the diff out on sturdy table put both clutch packs in and the side gears. Then get a nut, bolt and proper washers(you want one about the same size as the C-clip, and the other big enough to fit over the outside hole of the diff). Feed the bolt in from the outside and put the nut on. Tighten the hell out of it. Now tighten it some more. If its tight enough the spider gears will slide in when you rotate the other side gear. To get the spider gears in push the axle in to the loose side gear and put the c-clip on and pull back on the axle. Place the spider gears on opposite sides of the side gears. You should just be able to turn the axle and the gears should rotate in. If the nut and bolt aren't tight enough this won't work. If you didn't place the gears in the right position they won't line up with the spider shaft holes so start over. Once those are in put another nut and bolt on the loose side gear and tighten. Now the thrust washers should slide under the spider gears. Then put the spider gear shaft in. Put the diff in the housing, adjust for the proper sideplay and tightness (aka backlash). To get the axles in, the spider gear shaft should pull out and you can put the c-clips on the axles and the put the shaft back in. The rest is a cake walk.
Hope this helps others that were in my situation. I have no idea if it actually worked yet because I'm waiting for the RTV to dry before putting the diff oil in.
JB
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NYSubDak
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
09:33:01
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Here is excellent info on Dana trac-loc rebuild with pics.
HREF="http://www.ring-pinion.com/gear/g0199.shtml">http://www.ring-pinion.com/gear/g0199.shtml
Wade
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NYSubDak
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
09:35:19
| RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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Here is excellent info on Dana trac-loc rebuild with pics. Hopefully I get the link code right this time.:
http://www.ring-pinion.com/gear/g0199.shtml
Wade
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Buggy-Bumpers
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
22:06:41
|  RE: Rear Diff Destructed!
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DodgedogJB, Have you done any towing with your rig? If you have then you are required by the manual to replace the fluid with, I believe 75w 140 with trac loc fluid additive. Of course there is only about 1 sentence in the owners book about this info.
Sorry about the long delay.
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