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John RT/SE
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2002
18:20:46
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 Subject: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Here are a few pics of my home-brew intake and my relocated IAT sensor.
I used the factory air hat and bellows, with 3" exhaust tubing and a couple of strap metal braces welded on. I them painted the whole thing with Rustoleum fine-texured black wrinkle paint. I know that the bellows isn't as smooth a transition as a mandrel-bent section, but I wanted to get SOMETHING on there before the snow flies! Maybe this summer I'll spring for a complete mandel-bent pipe section.
I relocated the IAT to the underside of my factory air hat's inlet; I just drilled a 1/2" hole in the plastic and the sensor threaded itself in! Much cooler than in the intake manifold.
After all this I reset the PCM.
Hopefully this stuff will compliment the Autolite 3923's, 180 degree thermostat, and new plug wires I've already installed on my 1998 3.9 4x4 RC; I'm hoping to get the mileage up to 16-17 mpg with the winter gas (I'm at approx. 15.5 right now). As long as I can keep my foot out of the throttle, that is!
Enjoy!
John
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2002
22:15:03
|  RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Put the IAT back where it belongs. Engineers compensated for the hotter temp reading and you are simply causing it to run too rich which is lowering mpg and hp. Sorry you followed all the others and wasted your time.
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John RT/SE
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2002
22:42:59
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Thanks for the advice eggbert, but I'm going to run a couple of tanks of gas thru it first, then move it back and compare my fuel economy.
Doesn't take long at all to relocate if you have the right tools; 20 minutes is all start to finish (it will take even less time to move back).
John
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Todd W
GenIII
12/02/2002
00:02:42
|  RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Really Eggbert? My milage went up, as did power. I suppose I'm imagining the 3 mpg increase on the highway, eh?
John,
Thats a nice looking setup you did! I never thought to stick the IAT down there, good idea!
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e
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
01:03:28
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Todd, your mpg went up? What engine? Mine went down by almost one mpg.
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Todd W
GenIII
12/02/2002
02:52:26
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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3.9L 5-speed :)
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Knucklehead
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
03:07:00
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Wouldn't reseting the PCM allow it to re-learn the new settings?
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
03:50:19
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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JohnRT/SE, Good to experiment. That is how I found out. Changing was faster for me because I used 2. Checked both at different temps before installing to be sure they were in spec and reading same. Lots of mpg tests and several tests at the track. Every test showed air tube to be same or worse.
Todd, you might be imagining it. Many have. I don't know how you tested. We tested on 1 Dakota and two Pontiacs. One even lost power. We tested throughly even using dyno on one car.
BTW - Speedtweaks IAT adjuster proved to be a bust too.. Not much better than buying Tornado or Airraid spacer.
Homebrew does look good.
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KRC Tech
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
08:01:52
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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This is where I have to speak up, if you guys believe info such as above without trying on your own, then you may as well be sheep. The IAT does fuel enrichment + or - 4% in WOT, when used in closed loop, the long term fuel trim sets it to an accurate reading for up to 2 MPG (proven here). I 've gained 11 rear wheel on the dyno on a built 360 by using a resistor pack I carry in the dyno tools. One person negating this fails to realize that each PCM has a different revision program and tables in it. So not every truck will benefit. I guarantee you 90% will. Try it your self. And Mr Eggbert, I could post how one truck here lost power with the K&N FIPK and then tell everyone how none of them work. But that was one truck, all my dyno testing is usually done with the FIPK.
(Checked both at different temps before installing to be sure they were in spec and reading same. Lots of mpg tests and several tests at the track.)
Reading the same?? Just sitting in the manifold the sensor will read 180 degrees, relocating it drops it to 90 degrees. If they were reading the same, then one of the sensors was bad. Even the crummy Jet chip uses this circuit (along with coolant and crank Pal Loop) to increase power slightly.
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
09:25:18
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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KRC techster, you aren't the only one that can test. I can post as many tests as you. The first thing is "reading the same" had "Checked both at different temperatures" before it. That means that by using a voltmeter (you have one of them don't you?) and placing both in 4 different temperature environments, I was able to ascertain that they both read very close to each other and well within spec. I did this before putting them in the 2 different locations. As far as your results, you are probably getting your numbers based on (highly) modified engines that most people don't have and custom PCM flashes. People such as Mr. JohnRT/SE doesn't have all that. OH, and yes, I know the temps in the manifold and in the air tube. Manifold temp was 147 at idle and only dropped to 145 at 2500 rpm. Inlet temperture depends on ambient temp and where the inlet is recieving it's air source from. Now don't start flaming me like you did Bernd because I have anything to lose. Instead you need to start answering your phone and emails because I have heard of a number of complaints about you on those subjects. I have waited for up to a week to get an answer from you by email. When I did get to talk to you and purchased what you suggested, none of it has worked like you said it would. Then when I called back you brushed me off. Bernds info was better than yours. Maybe you should hire him to answer your phones and emails.
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Todd W
GenIII
12/02/2002
12:28:34
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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I suppose I -could- be imagining it... maybe I had a tail wind the whole 20-hour trip.
Nahhh... I'm pretty sure I didn't. Maybe I did on the power, I don't know. I suspect that maybe some of the previous mods caused it to 'respond' better. But, I don't suppose I'll ever know, since I don't have the time nor the inclination to start tearing stuff off for individual testing. I'm going to run it as a whole, so I'll test it as a whole. I will say that the IAT relocation was the only thing done to the truck that time.
People told me the JET-II wouldn't work either, but it did. Like KRC-Tech says, some trucks respond and some don't. It's hit-and-miss with some mods, mine seems to like it. And what my baby likes, my baby gets! (Like 92 octane fuel, to bad my wallet doesn't like it)
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
12:52:55
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Money is no object. I run 92 in my lawnmower. One thing is for certain here. No testing needed to know that it is your truck and you can do what you damn well please.
BTW, it is a good looking setup and from what I can see in the picture, your truck looks good.
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FastRT6Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2002
19:08:41
|  RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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KRC-Tech, honestly, I am curious, not trying to slam you here. What dyno do you guys use at the shop. I actually rent time from a local company (Cosworth Technology, Novi, MI) to use their Shenke Chassis dyno. Pretty cool how they do it. They have a climate soak room where you put the vehicle usually overnight that simulates 65 degrees F, 20% humidity, sea level atmospheric pressure (14.7 I believe). Then when it comes time to dyno, the vehicle is ready for testing in perfect conditions. Great for comparison testing. Shoot me an email so we can talk.
P.S. Actual dyno testing on my 2001 4.7L Automatic yeilded ~9RWHP peak with average gain of about ~3hp and 14lb-ft peak with average of about 5lb-ft. WOT test in ideal conditions.
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nate
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
12:02:46
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Todd W -
if you checked your mileage after a 20 hour trip, I would certainly expect it to be at least 2 mpg better than your average, even without mods. The best I have gotten was 20.3, non stop between fillups. However, over the life of my truck, I am averaging 17.873.
If you have done some sort of modification, it would really take at least 10 tanks to figure out whether or not your mileage has changed and by how much.
Since installing a cold air intake with an iat relocation, my mileage average is as follows
w/o 19 tanks, negating the first three to eliminate the break in period - 17.706mpg
w 22 tanks - 17.942.
However, these numbers are skewed by the fact that I also added a leer top at tank # 27. Ultimately I have come to this conclusion - all My $60 K&N with a 3" metal 90deg conduit accomplished was making my truck louder during part throttle. The harmonics are particularly interesting at 2500-2750 @ 75 - 100% Throttle - She sounds like a moaning whore.
And, incase you all are wondering, gathering precise info like this aint hard. All you have to to is - wait for it - write down your tripOD and gallons put in for every fillup. not that hard.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
12:14:46
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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eggbert: all it takes is a few minor mods to these engines to be running lean... change the cams, put on a cold air intake, larger TB and bam. you're a little lean. not much, but a little. the IAT trick for these LIGHTLY modified trucks enriches the fuel a little bit (cause the computer thinks the air is colder and therfore denser and therefore it requires more fuel). Its enough to get the A/F ratio back to a more optimum range for power. In fact, I bet a truck with a PCM flash wouldn't benefit from that trick nearly as much as one without because flashed PCMs usually enrich the fuel curve a fair bit anyhow.
It DOES work. end of story.
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
14:17:02
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Canucker: What you describe is what I started with. I didn't work. Added many mods since including a mopar PCM and tested it both ways after most mods.
It DIDN'T work. Second end of story.
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Todd W
GenIII
12/03/2002
14:42:27
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Maybe so, but I seem to be averaging 18 mpg city and 21-22 highway, which is better than my old 15mpg city / 18mpg highway. The IAT relocation was done back in June, the trip was made in August, so I think it had time to 'break in' and that enough data was gathered to accurately say I saw an increase.
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
18:23:55
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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In case you haven't noticed, Todd W., I am not disputing your results. You have convinced me. My point in the first place was not well made. I just ask people to test when making mods like this because they sometimes backfire. I hate the "sheep effect" where someone does it because someone else did it and their butt dyno said it worked.
I reread my original entry. I must have been half asleep. Sorry!
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Todd W
GenIII
12/03/2002
19:04:07
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Oh, I understand Eggbert, I'm not just replying to you. You've made some rather intersting points on this subject and others. I think we've pretty much proven that this mod works on some, and not on others. Probally has something to do with the flash version in the computers.
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
21:04:04
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Cool!
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KRC Tech
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
21:18:00
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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See what happens when someone is wrong, they start pointing fingers and assuming like a 3 year old. Bottom line, try it for yourselves and post your results to any forum good or bad, as for what you bought Mr Eggbert, you must have installed it wrong and done something other than what I would have done in house or your truck has issues to be worked out. As for my IAT testing, that is the first suggestion I give for non modified motors, not modified motors. Brushing you off? Check your tone of voice and attitude before calling anyone the way you talked to me, and see if they want to stay on the phone with you. And now you know the rest of the story. Flame on baby...
FAST RT6, I use the Dynojet 248 before 10 am that Crane Cams uses, with the weather station from Summitt racing. Early in the morn before the building heats up. I never dyno after 12pm in Florida. We calculate the corrected altitude to find the loss in power. Sometimes it's around 1400' here at sea-level. It's as accurate as we can get around here in this humidity. I don't strive to test in perfect conditions, because when we make it to the track after the dyno, it is usually 90% humidity and miserable. Take care!
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John RT/SE
Dodge Dakota
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12/03/2002
22:31:36
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Thanks for the compliments guys! Hopefully it works as good as it looks.
My next "mod" is getting the catalytic converter replaced; it's rattling and the dealer is going to replace it free (8 year/80,000 warranty)! It's possible that I might pick up some mpg/power there too.
I also appreciate the heathy debate about mods of this sort, but the tone of the posts has definately turned negative...
John
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eggbert
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2002
00:46:06
| RE: My Home-Brew intake & Relocated IAT
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Mr. KRC tech: This 3 year old didn't get a chance to show any attitude for a long time. Phone calls not returned by you and emails not answered by you. Someone told me how to get your attention. It worked and you didn't mind my attitude, especially when I'm dropping a couple of thou on you. Simple bolt on stuff. No adjustment necessary. Improvements that you claimed are still to be recognized. Some of the best in the business worked on it. You've got nothing on us. An arsonel of cars and trucks with my Dak being the slowest by far. Next slowest is 2 trucks and a car in low 13s and very close to stock. The other 3 are 10s and 9s. Dak now used mostly as tow vehicle and occasional bracket racer. Get off your pedestal. You are just another mechanic preying off of the public's desire to go faster. You make mistakes too.
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