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Dan
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2002
13:06:07
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 Subject: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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I was wondering. For a 2 wheel drive dakota which i have.. I have a 2002 quad cab with the 4.7 v8..and i wanted to know what is a good enough weight to put in the back just to keep the ass end on the ground a lil more..I put in 250 pounds but the ass was sagging a bit..so i took 2 bags out..so i have 2 left...how much weight should i have in the back? if anyone does the same thing that i do.. let me know..thanks
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Fubar512
GenIII
11/25/2002
13:49:45
|  RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Dan, adding weight be itself probably won't give you the traction that you are seeking. Get some decent winter tires, as most Daks hcome equipped with piss-poor rubber from the factory.
Confucious say: Any man can pee on wall. Be a true hero and crap on ceiling! I've tried being a hero once too often...
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DakAttack
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2002
14:39:44
|  RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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My old POS Ranger 4x2 did better with studded snow tires. I had 500, yes 500, pounds in the back and it didn't help a bit without the new skins.
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xplikt
GenIII
11/25/2002
14:49:00
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Get some good tires -- on ALL four wheels -- and put ~300 lbs in the back. It will sag, but traction is your friend. Be sure they are all over the rear axle or they are just a waste of space.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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Daddy-D
*GenIII*
11/25/2002
15:12:30
|  RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Get Tubesand - HomeDepot have 'em. Put them over the rear axles, just tuck them up against the fenderwells. I tried 2 last year, but that didn't seem to be very effective (my P Scorpion Zeros suck in the snow); I might try 4 this year.
DO NOT PUT THEM FARTHER AFT THAN THE REAR AXLES. This will add a LOT of polar momentum, which makes your Dak even more tail-happy!
Yes, winter tires are your best friend in snow/ice (especially w/tubesand). Studs destroy roads and are pretty much useless in non-icy conditions. Studded tires destroy roads; you will pay for it in taxes.
'98 DakSport C/C 3.9 2WD A/T
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2002
15:16:49
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Message:
Putting the weight as far back as possible gets more weight on thw wheels. It won't make the rear end much more "tail-happy" and if you are driving hard enough to make the rear end spin out then you shouldn't be driving on snow or ice. Personally, I've driven in the Snow more than a few times in my modded R/T and only had problems when I had the factory RSA's on. Never had any weight in the bed, and still managed to get around just fine even in 4" of snow with ice underneath. Granted, I wasn't trying to climb any hills, but still, learn to drive in the snow. All the tires or weight in the world won't help if you can't learn to feather the throttle and brakes.
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Daddy-D
*GenIII*
11/25/2002
20:24:06
|  RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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HSKR, you're only part right - putting the weight far aft does effectively put more weight on the rear axle, but you will also lighten up the front end. The more weight you put farther back (behind the rear axle), the more front end will want to push (not turn) and the rear will try to pass you when the front does get traction.
Everybody knows you don't have to drive like a flaming idiot to get in trouble in snow/ice; it makes no sense to take unneccessary chances with any vehicle's balance.
If you want a WHOLE LOTTA LOVE in the back of your truck, just be mindful not to load it aft of the rear axle - you could conceivably load 1/2 ton or more of sandbags in your truck - I just feel sorry for the poor bastid that tries to stop or change direction with that load.
'98 DakSport C/C 3.9 2WD A/T
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xplikt
GenIII
11/25/2002
20:30:54
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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D, sometimes you do need a lot of weight. I've never used 500, but I use 380 and sometimes tad more if I am going in the mountains. You need as much weight as you can to sink those tires onto the snow when going through some deep stuff. For around town driving a couple hundred pounds is fine.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2002
21:40:11
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Personally I use 235/75/15 studded snows on all 4 wheels (actually right now they are just on the back.) And 500 pounds of sand in the bed, in bags up against the cab. I tried the bags driectly over the axle but they end up moving around anyway, but they do seem to stay up against the cab. If I were using less weight, I would put it over the axle or even against the tailgate. The front to rear weight bias is so offset to the front, adding even 300 pounds to the tailgate will still not make the truck equally balanced, it will still be nose heavy. I have lots of little bags (10) so I can dump one under the tires possibly if I get stuck. I have a R/T and this weight behind the cab doesn't sag the truck that much at all with the stock suspension, and actually it seems to ride better but that may also be those 75 series tires. I know that even without the weight, you can really feel those tires roll over in a corner. I'd have to say hands down the thing that does the most for the R/T's handling over any other part is the 17" tires. I can hardly imagine how bad a stock sport on the regular 215/75/15 rides with no lowering, soft springs, and little front sway bar, with no rear sway bar. Oh wait, maybe I can imagine, my 93 Dakota was like that exactly! I have got caught out in a little snow before with the stockl RSAs 50% worn, and no weight in the back, as long as you got momentum you can do OK, but come to a stop on a hill and you're done.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2002
01:44:47
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Any weight in the bed no matter where you put it will increase the risk of swapping ends and extend stopping distances. Our trucks come with rear anti-lock from the factory for a reason. To avoid swapping ends by not allowing the rear wheels to lock up under braking. As I stated in my post, I've drivne my truck in the snow with no weight(maybe 50lbs of stuff I brought home for Christmas) in the bed and have only had a problem when I had the stock RSA's on the truck. The big snow storm that shut down most of KS and oklahoma and parts of TX and New Mexico the day after Christmas in '00 I was drivin through it in my R/T. At some points had 4" of snow on ground and ice underneath and still didn't have a problem.
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xplikt
GenIII
11/26/2002
02:02:06
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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"but come to a stop on a hill and you're done."
Holy hell, aint that the truth. I hate hills. I avoid those thing.
Dude, Texas shuts down with one inch of snow. Haha, I used to live in El Paso and I remember the city went into panic-mode when it snowed.
HSKR, I do not want to sound critical, but four inches is pretty weak. It's when you get into areas where it's just a field of little ruts in the snow. It looks like the surface of a golf ball. To get out of those holes you need weight. Last year I actually didn't have enough weight for some areas and had two people jump on the tailgate and I was able to go through them just fine.
Hey Dan, where you at and how much snow you get? We will be able to tell ya exactlly what ya need depending on the conditions you drive in.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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cryppie
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2002
02:06:59
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Message:
You might try something like this:
http://webpages.charter.net/mypage/Pics/Weight.jpg
Really easy to make with crap you can find at Home Depot. I used it for traction at the strip, and also for the occasional snow. Worked great. Of course, if you don't already have the weights, it will cost you.
cryppie
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dak-quack
GenIII
11/26/2002
07:30:34
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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I prefer the sandbags and kept (with my gen II Dak, 2wd) a shovel in the back too. Then if you get stuck you can use some of the sand and shovel for traction to get you out. Can't use a weight for this!
2002 QC, 4.7 3.92 4x4 AT LSD
Line-X, Autolite 3923's, TPS adjusted to .75v, 180 stat
Intense Z-Tube Gibson cat-back, Fastman TB, Clear Corners
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2002
10:56:51
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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xplikt you have to remember I drive a R/T so any snow can be a big deal. Especially when you are pushing 227+hp to the wide wheels we have. I know to the 4x4 crowd 4" of snow is barely noticed, but to a lowered R/T with wide tires, it becomes a big deal. Especially with a sheet of ice underneath. Was just saying that weight can be a bad thing in the snow when there is also ice. Also, doesn't matter how much weight you have in the bed, if you have bad tires you won't have traction.
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macman37
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2002
14:08:33
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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DO NOT put the weight farther back than the axles! I can't say this enough.
In fact, I amend that. Go to an empty snowy parking lot (when it snows, naturally) and adjust the weight in the back to right in front of the tail gate (do it like I did it - a couple of doughnuts in the snow will do the trick nicely! ; ) ) and try to turn (in the parking lot). The rear end will slide right out on you.
Then adjust it back to over the axle. It will be fine.
This is real-world physics at work. I did this myself (was doing some doughnuts with a friend once) and forgot to readjust the 210 lbs of sand in the back... I remembered right-quick when I made my first turn into traffic! You bet your bippy I got out and readjusted those bags. By the way, 3-70 lb bags are just fine for a 2 WD Dak with stock tires. That's what I had and I was a-okay for three winters, one of which we got a lot of snow. Only =almost= got beached once, and I was able to extract myself and be along my merry way.
jim
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paulvanharte
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2002
20:40:50
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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We got our Quad cab 4.7 V8 two wheel drive last spring.
We got a spring snowstorm and I got stuck with the stock Goodyear tires, which are useless in snow and rain. Anyway bought some Toyo Observe snow tires this fall and the snow we got here in Edmonton, Alberta Canada,did not bother the truck at all. I have a Raider Canopy so that puts some weight on the back as well. I am used to driving in the snow as we have about 6 months of winter here and no amount of sandbags will make up for using some common sense when driving a rear wheel drive truck in the snow
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2002
21:15:27
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Don't know about you, but I tend to avoid doughnuts in the snow and drive sanely enough to avoid having the back end slide around a corner on slick snowy roads. And if you are doing doughnuts or fishtailing around corners in the snow, unles you have some sort of rataining device installed, the sand bags are going to shift around. I grew up in midwest snow storms drivng trucks.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2002
00:54:41
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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I agree, you don't need snow to easilly kick the back of the R/T out while turning. easy throttle in the rain while turning, easilly brings the rear around. Even if I ease into the throttle on a turn and then floor it, it will jump sideways on the 1-2 shift! Thats on perfectly dry and clean pavement with a stock R/T. I spend my winters idling around in the R/T and that's with dedicated studded snows, it really is no big deal but you just need to respect the limits of ANY car or truck in these crappy conditions. Even when I got stuck on a hill with the stock RSAs I was able to get out beside the R/T and push it forward while it idled in gear. Without me pushing the tires idled forward, but the truck slid backward! The rear weight on a regular cab is nothing, add to that the 17's are wider then snowboards and you get the picture!
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xplikt
GenIII
11/27/2002
02:51:12
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Hey Hersbird, your brother still got that Soobie? Now that's the Montana Sports Car.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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kotart13
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2002
03:42:54
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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yikes, this is gonna be my first winter with my r/t! getting traction on dry ground is hard enough, let alone rain! ive learned the driving in rain part, but onto learning to drive on ice ans snow in these things! i heard this winters gonna be hell!
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afi360
*R/T*
11/27/2002
04:02:55
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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welcome to chicago, motherf*cker!!
thats what old man winter said to me this morning.
ive lived here all my life, but 2 jeep cherokees (lifted with 31"s and a grand prix later, i can safely say this winter with the r/t will be the most challenging...i FULLY AGREE WITH THEM WHEN THEY SAY DONT PUT THEM BEHIND THE AXLE!!! just ask the ditch i ended up next to this morning...hopefully the firestones i ordered will help.
**in shadows growing wings**
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macman37
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2002
15:40:31
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Get off your high horse HSKR.
I drive sanely. If you don't know how to have fun doing doughnuts that's your loss. Plus, ever consider that maybe I don't have an R/T so I don't get to kick the tires loose all that often? So I do it in an empty parking lot. Better to learn how your truck handles in snow that way than on the roads, eh? OH that's right. You were born in the Midwest (as was I- suburban Detroit) driving trucks. So sorry. My first truck experience was about 6 years ago now in a v-6 Dakota Club Cab SLT. I learned pretty quick how much weight I needed to safely get around. I never got stuck in the snow with a two wheel drive Dak and I'm not about to in a four wheel drive. I carry tools around with me in case I do though. Mostly they're for people I may encounter that are stuck.
All I told Dan was not to put the weight PAST the axles. Then I told him and anyone else with the same question to go try it out when it snows. It's safer to test in an empty parking lot than the road. I think we can agree on that. All I can say is that on ice and snow, you will find my sand bags no farther back than the axle. Sure they shift. I check them all the time in the winter.
jim
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xplikt
GenIII
11/27/2002
15:47:24
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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I totally agree with you Jim. Going out and playing with your vehicle in an empty parking lot is one of the most important things you can do to learn the vehicle. It's always nice to know where and how much it takes to kick it out.
Besides, it's fun as hell.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/27/2002
16:38:14
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Okay Jim, playing in an empty parking lot is all fine and dandy, but you said you had done that then forgot to put the sandbags back by the axles and whipped the rear end out while pulling out onto the street. That shows that you must not have learned anything while "testing" your truck in the parking lot. If you had learned a little beetter how your truck is going to handle with weight in various locations, then you woudln't have whipped the rear end out when you pulled onto the street. As paulvanharte said in his post, "no amount of sandbags will make up for using some common sense when driving a rear wheel drive truck in the snow." This means don't push on the throttle as much. I'm not on a high horse, I'm just trying to help people out that don't know how to drive a truck in the snow. Weight helps, the farther back you put it in the bed, the more weight there will be on the wheels, the more weight on the wheels, the better the traction they will have, but the more weight in the bed, the more it will effect handling, braking, and exceleration. They say every 100lbs adds 1/10 second to your times in the 1/4, so just imagine what it does to braking distances, now throw in some snow and ice and it becomes even harder. If you can't learn to drive a truck around on city streets without any weight, adding weight isn't going to help much except for getting the truck to move easier. But that is the last thing you need to worry about when driving in the snow. Braking is a much more serious thing to consider and the more weight you throw in the bed the harder it will be to get the vehicle stopped. Especially if you don't have ABS on all four wheels. Most Dakota's on the road only have rear wheel ABS which keeps the rear end from coming around on you, but still allows you to lock up the front tires which keeps you from steering. And with the way the brakes are proportioned on our trucks, if you lock up the front tires, you are far past the point of no return on stopping. The rear whell ABS isn't going to stop you very easily with the front tires locked up on ice. Telling people to go do doughnuts in an empty parking lot might sound like a good idea, but roads with traffic and empty parking lots are two different types of situations. The trick is to keep from doing doughnuts and spinning or locking up the tires. If you can do that on icy roads then you shoudln't need weight anywhere in the bed unless you live on un-maintaned roads. Any even weight won't help a bad set of tires. If you live where it snows more than a few inches a year, you'd be better off just getting some dedicated snow tires, and throwing some studs on them. If you think your truck is hard to handle in the snow, try driving a truck putting over 220hp and 320ft/lbs of torque to the wheels with wide performance tires on it. Not as easy as you might think. And if you think a 4WD vehicle is going to help you from getting stuck, then you are greatly mistaken. I see more 4x4's stuck in snow than 2wd's usually because the people who have the 4wd's think they can drive faster because of it, or go down roads that they shouldn't be driving on. 4wd will help you get into more trouble on snow and ice because by the time you get to where you think you have to use the 4wd function, you are already gone, and probably in a place where it makes it difficult to get out of.
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macman37
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/27/2002
18:24:54
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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HSKR: Common. Sense.
1: I did NOT "whip" the truck out on to the road. I was simply turning, didn't goose the throttle, didn't do anything out of the ordinary for when the weight in the bed was in the right location, and the rear slid out on me. I replaced the weight to over/in front of the axles and all was well.
2: I perfectly understand the concept that driving in the snow and having a modicum of traction is important, but the big part is stopping. I completely agree with your post about that... However, I never said anything about that.
3: I had NO problem at all in my two wheel drive truck. I do not anticipate, with the same level of caution I had before when I did not get stuck, any problems with my four wheel drive truck.
Again I say, go to a parking lot. Drive safely TO the parking lot. Drive around a bit (starting, driving, turning and stopping) with the weight over the axles. Then do the SAME maneuvers with the weight on the tailgate. You and everyone who does this will notice a difference to the negative. You tout your basic knowledge of fulcrum points and etcetera, however, REAL world physics (and a short lesson at that) will teach you that once you start moving that weight side to side it all changes. Yes you may apply more weight to the back of the truck technically, but it doesn't do any good once centrifugal force takes over. SEE FOR YOURSELF!
That's all I'm saying.
Peace.
jim
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Hurl
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2002
19:00:56
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Anyone have input on the performance of a "peg leg" vs a LSD rear? I've noticed that my V8/LSD combo truck does quite nicely on wet roads while turning. My V6 Toyota "peg leg" would break loose while accelerating on a turn in wet weather. The LSD Dak seems to do much better at keeping its track.
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IrGoat
Dodge Dakota
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11/28/2002
03:47:21
| RE: Sand bags in the back when it snows.
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Message:
ok well i live in south west mi near lake mich. ok we get a lot of snow and i comes from nowhere and my dak slides every where. im not used to driving a truck but i know i need something to keep the back gripin and the fronts from locking
any ideas i got some wood but its kinda bulky and hard to keep still while driving
96 rc auto v6 sport
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