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Exocet
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
17:41:00
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 Subject: Redline vs. Amsoil
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I was just about to order some Amsoil Series 2000 75W90 gear lube for my 02 QC, when I got a $20 gift certificate from Summit Racing. Since Summit carries Redline lubricants(and not wanting to pass up on "free" money), I've started to re-evaluate my decision. I was wondering if there is any real world difference between the two brands? Thanks.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
18:24:08
|  RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Yes, the two products use almost opposite base stock combinations. Redline use mostly Polyoester based stock and Amsoil uses mostly PAO base stocks. Redline uses alot moly and Amsoil uses alot of zink. I use both companys products and like them both. I doubt that you would ever notice a difference in real world conditions. From what I understand Amsoil has the edge in extended drain with most of it's products. Most of Amsoil products are either 25,000 mile or 2-3 times the normaly interval depending on the product. Redline has 15,000 miles or double the normaly change interval depending on product. Amsoil seldom increases HP due to friction reduction and seldom lowers temp's while redline always increases HP and lowers temp.'s. If you should decide to get Redline's products make sure you get their API aproved oils you do not want their Race oil in a daily driver because the Race oil has very few aditives and will not protect a daily driver very well.
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Dr.D
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
19:37:19
|  RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Sandman,
This is the first time I have ever had to
disagree with you but I have noticed cooler temps
and increased horsepower when using Amsoil and so
did the dyno !
Dr. D
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Don
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
21:17:04
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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I have followed the "synlube" industry for 20-plus years, do some work with polymer based materials, and build race engines as a hobby.
(I know you didn't ask but) I'd say Mobil1 is the best of the "commonly" available synthetics and is probably the best oil at "that" price point. If that is all that fits your budget, use it because I'm not knocking it. However, Mobil1 is somewhat constrained in their formulation approach as they are trying to make a licensed product and sell it in that "lower" price range (formulated to be very good but not the best for price point reasons..I think you guys were seeing it for $18 5-qt jug).
This "lower retail price approach" limits the amount of zinc and phosphorus Mobil can use in the formulation to provide wear protection. This is why they have to play around with moly in their new Supersyn oils to get acceptable wear performance over long drain intervals.
You are making a good choice with Amsoil or Redline. I do think that Amsoil and Redline make better synthetics than Mobil1, especially Amsoil and their extended drain synthetics, but they are up in the $7.00-$8.00/qt range, so this isn't a fair comparison. Amsoil & Redline compared to Mobil1 is not apples to apples. I've had excellent results with the Amsoil Series 2000/3000 products in my personal vehicles, with change intervals of 15k-20k miles. I only use Redline for the race cars.
There are other less readily available alternatives, but when you think of real synthetics for real people, most people would agree that there are only 3 popular brands in North America: (I said popular, not only.)
Mobil1: easy to find, relatively cheap, good detergency.
Amsoil: Lasts long, excellent additive package, and stable against oxidation.
Redline: Good engine performance. (API aproved oils only, race oil is not for Joe Public unless you like tearing down and rebuilding engines)
Hope I was helpful
Don
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BigBlue QC
GenIII
11/19/2002
12:40:53
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Message:
Don, this is the second post from you I have read and good first hand knowledge is always appreciated as well as Sandmans' responses. At least I appreciate it. Keep it up. Thanks
2002 QC 4x4 Sport Plus, 4.7L, auto, Patriot Blue, Tire & Handling group,
Heavy Duty Service group, Leer cap w/out windows, Mopar Step bars and roof rack, Rhino liner in bed and on step bars, Pace Edwards Power Tailgate lock
3.55 rear, 4-wheel anti-lock brakes, all possible fluids are AMSOIL
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
22:04:09
|  RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Dr. D, I do not doubt that Amsoil can do the same. Amsoil will not go on record with those claims though and they do not promote their product as such. Redline on the other hand will present their Dyno information and pyro tests and use's the information in their marketing. I do not remember if we tested Amsoil at that time I know the control oil was Mobil-1 which at the time was very similar in terms of base stock to Amsoil. This is pre-2000 series and pre-Tri- synthetic. I would be interested to know though why Amsoil corp. will not take any officaly stance on these issues. See if you can get a solid answere from them. When ever I ask them they give me an answere that is full of double talk. It looks like a Lawyer typed my reply?
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Don
Dodge Dakota
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11/20/2002
07:03:05
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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The claims of increased HP, decreased temps and better MPG are highly exagerated when it comes to most synthetics that are available to the public. I'm not talking race oils which might carry the same name but different formulation, but again don't use race oils in your daily driver. In most cases you'll be lucky to get 2 extra hp, 2F lower temps better. Don't expect miracles.
Yes, Ive seen those Redline results. Personally, I have not acheived the same results and I build and test engines.
Don
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Will
Dodge Dakota
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11/20/2002
09:08:06
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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I agree Don, it's no miracle. To me, besides cold starts, high quality synthetic engine oil is more protection and a long-term investment than some kind of upgrade. If you want temp/performance improvements change your auto trans fluid to synth. I've seen 10-15 degree drops in highway temps, cold shift performance acts like normal operating temp, and normal temp is like I installed a mild shift kit. Night & day difference. I haven't yet switched all my vehicles ATF yet, but these results are from going from Havoline +3 to Amsoil Universal ATF in Chrysler 46RH & 42RE transmissions. Downside is cost/qt, and needing 15qts.
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/20/2002
12:10:34
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Some people have reported problems with Dodge transmissions after switching over to synthetic oil. It doesn't make sense to me but stranger things have happened. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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HomeAlone
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2003
12:16:26
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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I've encountered a number of guys who were extremely pleased with Amsoil Universal in their Chrysler trannies (46RH/42RE/45RFE). Improvements were perfect shifting from start in the winter, less slipping, cooler temps towing, etc. Two are friends who regularly haul substantial (>5K) loads. They'd shoot me before going back to dealer +4 fluid, let alone department store +3.
Redline makes their C+ ATF which was supposed to be +4 compatible. Noticed their website only says 7176 compatible now. (Someone kick their webmaster for me. 45 seconds to get to useful information.)
You must be prepared to switch back if the fluid isn't performing for your vehicle. For whatever reasons, some transmissions seem more particular than others, even of the same model.
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HomeAloneStil
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2003
14:25:17
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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I forgot to say/ask if the following is correct?
Redline ... supposed to be +4 compatible. Noticed their website only says 7176 compatible now.
Correct or am I reading it wrong?
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Lemmers
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2003
14:27:11
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Message:
Exocet,
If you do any towing with your truck, you'll want
to step up to 75-140 or 80-140 gear lube as
per the owner's manual.
That said, I'm running RedLine 80/140 gear
lube in my Quad and it's been great. I got it
from Summit. The best part is you don't need
to add friction modifier if you have a limited
slip.
Later,
Lemmers
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Exocet
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2003
19:23:11
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Well, I made the change the Redline 75W-90 in the front diff and 75W-140 in the rear diff. My highway mileage went from 15.5 avg/16.0 max to 17.7 avg/19.1 max at 70-72 MPH. Not too bad for a 2002 QC, 4x4, 4.7, auto, with 3.92s. I'm not embarassed anymore to tell people what kind of mileage I'm getting.
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Gunnar
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2003
20:33:03
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Dont let sandman fool you. he likes Castrol!
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
06:57:35
|  RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Sandman like CASTRO? ....I wonder if he likes OSAMA too?
Dr.D
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50
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
12:22:13
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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How about Hussein??? Don't leave our Hussein!!!
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99dak4x4v8
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
12:37:16
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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I'll put it to you this way, a friend of mine races mini sprints that constantly turn 11,000-13,000rpms while racing. He ran Mobil 1 for years and had to have the motor rebuilt ever couple races. At the begining of the season about two years ago, someone told him to try AMSOIL. After 3 races, he took the motor to the shop, it was torn down and put back together. Motor builder got in a fight with him telling him that the motor was never run. This went back and forth for almost 20 races. At the end of the season, he took the motor back and it had just started to show very little signs of wear. The motor builder wanted him to run it for another season but he wanted to rebuild it anyway. Moral of the story is that now we run Amsoil in everything and I mean everything, Trucks, cars, boats, Sea-Doo's, Ski-Doo's, motorcycles.
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50
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
12:45:03
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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Do you like Castro too?
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2003
10:37:52
| RE: Redline vs. Amsoil
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I have used REDLINE OILS in the past and they seem to offer a pretty decent product however, I now use AMSOIL in everything that I own.
AMSOIL offers more products and services than any other performance oil company that I know of.
I also highly recommend that everyone who buys AMSOIL to become a preferred customer. It will save you money (about 25-30% savings) and provides you with a free subscription to the official AMSOIL Corporate Magazine The "AMSOIL ACTION NEWS".
Dr. D
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