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Dakkard
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
12:09:32
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 Subject: Why use synthetic oil?
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Mabey I'm the exception to the rule, but I've always bought the cheapest generic 10W30 oil I can find (usually about .60c a quart.) I've never had an engine "wear out", blow up, freeze up, etc. My 1990 Toyota Camry just rolled over 304,000 miles with the original engine and no problems. All my other vehicles in the past (American, Jap and German) all ran well over 150,000 at least before I sold them.
Have I just been lucky or what?? Do most peoples cars break down?
Why would I buy a synthetic oil for so much more money?
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
12:17:28
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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That's great, you didn't refer to what kind of intervals your changes were. I'm sure we'd like to know.
Thanks
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Dakkard
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
12:28:08
|  RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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I generally try change the oil every 5K. Sometimes closer to 4k or 6k. I don't do anything special. That's why I wondered if I'm just a lucky SOB and most other people have lots of engine problems, so they want a synthetic hoping it makes their engines run longer?
I dunno, just wondered why all the fuss over synthetic.
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ME 111
R/T
11/15/2002
12:45:02
|  RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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I don't think, personally, that engine longevity is the primary reason...instead its a matter of reducing friction thus enhancing efficiency/performance.
Those of us who more often than not
visit the land of WOT
seek the most out of what they bought
So why the heck not
Flame Red '99 R/T CC
52mm TB - HomeBrewed K&N Intake - 3923 AutoLites - Un-Relocated IAT - TPS @.73 - 180 TStat
Falken 285/60/R17s on Rear - RoadMaster Active Suspension - SS rollpan - XTang soft Tonneau - Mopar Bra
And one Heavy Foot
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
13:21:26
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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I fall in the category of ME 111. I'm hard on an engine and want the extra protection plus I like the friction reduction. I know of others that use regular petroleum oil and it performs just fine.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/15/2002
14:38:34
|  RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Why Synthetics Work Better
In plain English, synthetic lubricants are designed to handle temperature extremes, especially heat. They reduce frictional heat and transfer heat away from critical components faster. They also resist heat breakdown much better than petroleum-based lubricants. In scientific terms, synthetic lubes have higher lubricity and higher thermal conductivity.
Conventional lubricants (often referred to as Dino, short for dinosaur) rely mainly on additives for their performance. Their petroleum base fluids are physically separated from crude oil during refining. Petroleum base fluids contain impurities of varying types and amounts (wax crystals and sulfur compounds, etc.). These impurities make the lubricant less stable, providing molecular "targets" where heat and chemical contaminants can "attack".
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What ARE Synthetic Lubricants?
Synthetic fluids are manufactured, built "from the molecules up" from simpler organic compounds. This synthesis process gives Synthetic Lubricants pre-determined physical and chemical properties. Thermal and oxidative stability increases oil life, reduces deposits and controls oil thickening. High lubricity reduces heat and prevents wear. The performance characteristics of synthetic lubes are based on their tailor-made molecular structure. Synthetic oils use additives to enhance performance, rather than make up for limitations of petroleum base fluids.
The synthetic chemistry means less friction, more efficient operation, and a decrease in lubricant temperatures. This translates into better fuel economy and increased power, reduced maintenance, improved reliability, and longer-lasting engines, transmissions, differentials, etc.
-----
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
19:44:36
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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To add to that, some synthetics (probably most) are "built" from petroleum base. There are numerous sources (ever heard of Jojoba bean?) but the most commonly available synthetics are originated from conventional. Mobil 1 and Royal Purple are 2 of them. I don't know about Amsoil or Redline.
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dcdak
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
20:24:55
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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wally world oil 84 cents a quart. wally filter $ 1.99 change every 4000 miles equals 193,000 miles. it doesn't burn oil so I ain't changing. Synthetic oil is that something like a veggie burger. If it's that great isn't it in all the new cars ????????
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
23:45:07
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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dcdak, it is in new Corvettes. Bean counters won't let them up it in other cars.
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Dakkard
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
23:57:55
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Hey, I appreciate all the advice on this post I started. I'm gonna stick with what works for me. The cheapest oil I can find at +/- 5K interval changes.
My 304,000 Toyota doesn't lie. Nor do any oher 150+ cars I've owned.
I haven't seen any argument for synthetic oils that would keep an engine lasting any more than my local cheapy brand. Mabey for race cars, but not my truck.
No need to continue this thread. Thanks all.
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Reid
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
01:28:01
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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I've been told that synthetic oil isn't good for enignes during the break-in process because it's to slick and the rings won't wear the walls down to fit snugly. I have also been told that if you mix 1 quart of synthetic with 4 quarts of regular oil, you will get 75% of the advantages of the synthetic oil. Does anybody know if that is true?
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Dakkard
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
01:30:30
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Hey, I appreciate all the advice on this post I started. I'm gonna stick with what works for me. The cheapest oil I can find at +/- 5K interval changes.
My 304,000 Toyota doesn't lie. Nor do any oher 150+ cars I've owned.
I haven't seen any argument for synthetic oils that would keep an engine lasting any more than my local cheapy brand. Mabey for race cars, but not my truck.
No need to continue this thread. Thanks all.
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
07:21:30
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Reid, I've heard the same thing. I have seen no tests on this but as stated before, Corvettes come with it from the factory. Slp put it in the FireHawks too. I haven't heard of any problems from them. I still use regular petroleum oil for the first 500 miles and then a blend for the next 500.
As far as the homemade blends I know nothing about that.
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Jj
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
08:54:49
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Reid,
Musta been a "shadetree" that told you "that if you mix 1 quart of synthetic with 4 quarts of regular oil, you will get 75% of the advantages of the synthetic oil. Does anybody know if that is true?"
Modern additives packages are balanced in a lab by scientists and engineers. Are you going to tell me that you can mix a better formula. Some additives packages will actually conflict with each other and could cause sludging.
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huh
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
09:39:17
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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so vettes put in synthetic does that say that the bean counters think less of lexus, porsche, honda, toyota, dodge.
You talk about bean counters,, the vettes were made from fiberglass because the bean counters said it was cheaper than making metal dies and molds for a steel car based on the production quantities. And the vettes are the low end of sports cars. I like vettes and dollar for dollar you can't bet them
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
10:52:20
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Dakkard, You realy can not compare your Toyota to most American products. The Toyota drive trains have a pretty strong track record of going 300,000 miles as a matter of normalacy. The more down to earth advantages to useing synthetic are as follows.
1)No sludge
2)No dry rotting of seals
3)Half the engine wear of conventional oil
4) 2-3 time the protection in the event of a catatrophic event like coolant, oil loss........
5) More HP due to less friction
6)In some cases extended drain intervals that make it more cost effective then convetioal oil.
I just had to change my porpotioning valve on my 17 year old Toyota 4Runner. THe rubber boot that goes arong the weight distribution valve was a suble as when brand new. It has not dry rotted of craked.... None of the OEM rubber parts has shown any signs of ageing other then the OEM belts and Hoses and the Hoses made it 12 years before I had to replace them. Toyota cost more in begining but they tend to reward long term owners with durability that the American brands are un willing to match.American powertrains need all the help they can get from a durability stand point!!!
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
12:12:36
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Well huh, different companies have different bean counters.
The 'Vette was built out of fiberglass initially because of cost. Now they can build it out of whatever they want. It could be built cheaper, now days, out of another material but it is known for that feature. I like them too but am about $20,000 short of buying one. The story of my life.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
23:29:03
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Reid, You have to hit at least 30% to get any benfit from adding synthetic. Most synthetic blends that have any real synthetic in them are about 30% synthetic. In the old days we would take two quarts of Mobil oil and two quarts of Mobil-1 for 50/50 blend and still change at 3000 miles. If money is the key issue for you buy a quazy synthetic (hydro craked) like walmart brand for $2.95 a quart and change it every 3000 miles. It will perform better then just adding one quart of synthetic to you regular oil. Walmart Synthetic is Quaker State Synthetic in a different bottel and half the price.
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
07:11:01
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Don't be such a cheap skate. Just put 100% synthetic oil in your ride. You'll thank me later. You got a high tech computer don't you? Use high tech oil.
adios
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
07:34:20
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Somebody is using my name and I don't appreciate it.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/17/2002
10:04:18
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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"50",
Don't forget...(and I want everyone to be aware) that we have an "identity thief" on DodgeDakotas.com. Remember he was posting as AmsoilSponsER (see "-er"), where I am AmsoilSponsor (registered membername ending in "-or"), and he also stole and posted under my given name Steven Roark. He posted flames and vulgarities and should be banned into a AOL teen chatroom where he belongs. I won't mention his name as I must take the "high road" as a site sponsor ... but you can.
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We must all ask ourselves, What are we really trying to create here...a glorified "flaming" chatroom, or a place with helpfun information and advice.
-----
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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50
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
17:09:57
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Maybe what we need here is a forum specifically for "flaming" so the moderators can move a thread that gets out of hand there. That would save the disgust of the normal people.
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Captain Tom1
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
17:16:05
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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I've never heard of Amisol before i came to this site. I don't think they sell it where i live.
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George
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
11:20:23
|  RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Conserve Oil And Disasters are less likely to happen ....
Disaster feared as tanker splits ,Tuesday, November 19, 2002
An inevitable price of our DEPENDENCY ON OIL:
LA CORUNA, Spain -- One of the world's worst environmental disasters was feared to be under way as the crippled oil tanker Prestige split in two and began sinking off Spain's north-west coast.
Environmental group WWF had previously warned that if all the fuel oil leaked, it would be one of the LARGEST OIL LEAKS IN THE WORLD -- about twice as big as the Exxon Valdez spill off Alaska in 1989.
Conserve Oil With Longer Oil Change Intervals BY USING SYNTHETIC'S, and RECYCLE What You Remove From Your Engine, Tranny. I do !!!
George
Member -- Sierra Club
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
20:12:48
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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George, I'm a little confused. Most synthetic oils begins with conventional oil. How will the use of synthetics help polution?
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George
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
20:54:50
|  RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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I have had near perfect oil analysis results with NEO, Schaffers, Redline and Amsoil products in my cars and trucks using recommended extended drains of approx. 12k miles on each oil. They are all formulated for 12-15k mile changes, with Amsoil even longer with analysis. I've drove to Alaska and back, cross country, many times, without an oil change. Approx. 20k+ miles per trip with excellent oil analysis results stating "good for continued use" on Amsoil. Schaffers and Amsoil retain their additives packages best in my tests. I think they are both limited production and available by catalog.
If a person changes their Dino oil every 3000 miles then they use 4-5 times the oil that I do. 5 times the oil = 5 times the number of tankers = 5 times the chances for a major spill.
Why do I care? I travel thousands of miles in my camper, from death vally 120 degrees, to alaska negative temperatures. I go to Alaska to visit friends every so often and I was there shortly after the Exxon Valdez spill and the environment and economy were destroyed. Now we have the disaster off the coast of Spain. Where next? What if it happened in your favorite fishing spot?
George
Member -- Sierra Club
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Huh
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
21:12:12
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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tankers transport mostly gasoline. lube oil is less than one percent of the oil used. YOU burn a lot more gasoline than you use oil hauling a camper over the country. If you change oil very fourth time THAT'S 12 QUARTS OR THREE GALLONS SAVED.....
HOW MANY GALLONS FILLS YOUR GAS TANK. YOU BURNED 600 GALLONS OF GASOLINE (12,000 MILES AT 20 mpg) AND SAVED THREE GALLONS OF LUBE OIL. LET'S SEE 600 GALLONS VERSUS 3 GALLONS.
Why don't you use public transport if you want to pollute less.
ducks unlimited forever.
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
21:34:45
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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I see where you are coming from, George. I guess it depends on how much you drive and other factors. I don't drive but about 9000 miles a year and most synthetics will tell you to change oil after 1 year no matter how many miles. Also, I know of no place in my area that will run an oil sample. I use synthetic but I only double the miles I would normally drive if I were to use conventional oil.
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George
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
21:42:13
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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First, why are you yelling?
Second, I'm confused with your logic. I'm talking oil tankers. The crude oil from alaska is brought to california in the huge tankers to be refined. Brent Sea crude is in tankers. Crude from the offshore rigs is brought into ports via tankers. I don't understand your logic or your point.
I am a semi retired part time camper and RV manufacturers rep. Driving campers is part of my job along with setting up disaster relief temporary mobile homes which we also manufacture, like after a hurricane or natural disaster. I also volunteer at disaster sites. If I charged for my hours and stayed in a hotel it would be more than I spend on gas. Public Transportation. Don't make me laugh. This country has no public transportation outside the big cities. If it was available I would take it. I did for many many years in a small town before they cancelled the bus service. I also own a campground and a garage. That is why I have so many different oils available to me and understand them.
Any way that we can save natural resources and save the earth is a good thing. At least it is to me.
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dcdak
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
21:42:29
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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wait a minute - by not changing oil but every 12,000 miles, i save a whooping 3 gallons!! I burn that much going into the city. Whose fooling who. So if I change oil once per year I save 3 gallons of oil per year. Shoot I burn that in one hour.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
21:50:48
| RE: Why use synthetic oil?
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Huh, Well we know you can cut and paste other peoples propaganda!First their is not any mass transit system that allows you to take your time and enjoy the senery across the the perma shield/Tundra that makes up most of Canada and the Alska HWY which is only available for small parts of the year. Second fuel consumption is greatest in states that have high access to public mass transit. Third mass transit only works if it is available to everyone in the country conviently includeding farmer Bob in Harbor population 1000. Jet aircraft are mass transit but they are anything but fuel efficient. If your fuel consumption is pretty much fixed then any reduction in hydrocarbon consumption is good and only helps. I drive the exact same miliage week after week. I drive to work 5 days a week, YMCA 5 days a week, grocery store ever 10 days and the gas station ever 5 days. So I will always burn the same amount of gas. I am the only person in My 700 person facility that live in the direction I live in. So their is no one to car pool with, Their is no mass transit and only very poor and shoody public transit in the city. SO you are trying to tell me that I should increase the only thing I can cut back on which is crankcase oil. I guess I should take my florecent whole light bulbs out and put 100 Watt incandesents back in. I know maybe I should move some place that already has enough people that chose not to use mass transit. I know I can move to a state that does not have enough water, electricty, jobs, or farm land to feed their own. I know I can move to California were the Envirment Nazi's still have failed to make California a nice place to live inspite of their best efforts to destroy the auto industry and peoples access to affordable transportation. Seeing how cars are the only thing you can afford in California. I guess a whole state full of freakes still can not get everyone to trade in their cars for bicyles. Wait I think that every state with a good mass trasitt system still has a problem with SMOG!! Gee could it be that factorys, water treatment plants and Power Stations are the key poluter???? Here I thought that Grany in her 1970 Dart Swinger was to blame??? Here in MI most family's have more cars then people and the only places that have any smog are near metro detroit and it is only dureing the winter months. I think that 5 gallons is better then nothing seeing how we are all going to keep on driveing. If everyone saved 3-5 gallons of oil a year the saveings would be huge. I guess you do not consider everyone in the USA automaticly saveing 1%-5% in total fuel usage a year just buy changeing to synthetics significant either? Oh and lets not forget that emissions are reduced due to less blowby when useing synthetic oil. Oh yet another reason because they are less volitile you get fewer hydrocarbons released into the air yet again. I think if you take a close look you would see that all the % add up to a huge reduction in emissions and usage. Considering that mass transitt is a pipe dream in a country as expansive as ours. I am sure you would not vote yes to pay more tax's to pay for it!!!
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