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Lab Rat
GenIII
 
11/08/2002
11:36:23
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 Subject: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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Just checked the Hughes website. They say they're available, specs on this page:
http://www.hughesengines.com/www/hughesengines/cams/47_cams.asp
LR
Gibson Dual Sport, AirForce One air intake, Jet II, Jet TBS, 180 stat, IAT, TPS, no viscous fan, Lakewood traction bars, "Wilson" antenna ball...when are we gonna see some real parts??!!
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DakUSA
DakotaEnthusiast
11/08/2002
12:03:49
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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What a crock. they want me to pay them 179.99 for ffactory HO cams and give them my stock cams. hell I can go to my dealer and order new Ho cams for 53.00 each and save myself 80.00 plus shipping and keep my stock cams or sell them
Chris Lambert
President Dakota USA
01 Graphite QC -- 4.7 Auto, K&N Drop in, MBRP Dual Exhaust Custom bent on 45s,
Bed Rug, Bed Rails, Euro Tails, Clear Fronts,Truxedo Bed cover, Custon Leather seats, NR Auto gauges,
Boyds Timeless 6s with 275/50/17 Nitto NT450s, GTS style hood, SS front
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xplikt
GenIII
11/08/2002
12:13:22
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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After his hard work in R&D he finally comes out with this sh1t. I don't think so. KRC or Jonas is a wiser investment. Unless there is something there I am not seeing, what a bastard..
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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Rob
GenIII
11/08/2002
12:29:52
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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Hughes
HER 0820T INT. .490"
EXH. .490" 208°
220° 262°
272° 116° 12° ATC
46° BBC 40° B
KRC CAms
Intake duration 206/ .502
Exhaust duration 218/.463
Lobe Separation 112 degrees
That looks to be like a pretty wild Cam
 1NICEDAK
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/08/2002
12:42:02
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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um .. guys there's the cams at the bottom of the table .. he lists three sets of cams .. the stock, the HO and the custom re-grinds.... $288 with your stock cores.
Now lets see some dyno #s GIVE US DYNO CURVES BOYS!!! IT's REALLY NOT THAT HARD TO DO! You put a truck on the dyno before the cams, then after the cams and you scan the results.
you know what worries me though .. why are his HO specs different from Marty's? and different from the Jeep WJ page (Jeep WJ)
what's going on here!?
If the specs for the custom grind are correct, it looks like the Hughes cam is a little more aggressive than KRC's street cam (i.e. higher RPM)
Hughes
INT. 208/.490" @ .050"
Exh. 220/.490" @ .050"
Lobe sep. 116 (really!? WTF?)
KRC
INT. 206/.502" @ .050"
EXH. 218/.463" @ .050"
Lobe sep. 112
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2002
12:52:37
|  RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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And this doesn't make much sense .. the Factory HO cams have a negative valve over lap?? 36.5 deg. of both valves closed between exhaust and intake ... maybe that's for emissions? It'd be great for forced induction though ;)
Same with their custom grind .. 18 deg of 'negative overlap'.
I'm not sure if I beleive their specs .. or maybe I'm just reading them wrong??
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2002
13:23:44
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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I kinda noticed the same thing.....
It's kinda odd how the numbers between Marty's site and Hughes' site don't match for the factory HO cams.....
And the even more ironic part is that Hughes even has an entire essay written on his site about advertised duration and true duration at .050 lift and all the voodoo of cam specs....
Personally from what i know of Hughes I am much more inclined to go with Marty's option anyhow. I will post in a moment here to get KRC Tech's attention and see if we can get a response....
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2002
13:44:16
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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yeah .. I've read the essay on the Hughes site too.
I'm still leaning towards the KRC cams too, but the price tag is still something I have to tackle somehow.
still want dyno sheets though ... (I know I know .. they're coming, but i'm like a kid in a candy store who has to wait in line .. very impatient)
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/08/2002
14:06:18
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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I think there may be a theme at work here.....
You get what you pay for.
Marty (I am most certain) has scienced out the grind that he's publishing and intending to sell. He has also scienced out the valve springs and everythign else you are getting for the $599 that he's charging. After talking with Marty, I get the impression that his street cam set is being produced from blank cores, more than likely. With that pair of cams, the $599 will also include the new lash caps and valve springs that you will still have to buy once you get the seemingly much cheaper Hughes cams.
If Hughes is asking $288 (very close to half of KRC's Price) and yet he is STILL asking you for your stock cores, that pretty much indicates that you are getting a re-ground stocker. So you are paying for stock cams and then the labor of regrinding them. If the HO cams only cost $110 total (I bet he's paying even less), you are paying $178 or more for a regrind job. And you have to find your own damn springs & caps. Any ideas of what to get there? Prolly have to call Marty to buy those before it's over anyhow.
I'd definitely like to see what kind of gains we'll get from Hughes's regrind versus KRC's grind, and I'd like to see the actual graph, not some peak numbers.
One last factor to consider is that Hughes has more than likely NOT been doing R&D on these cams for the amount of time that he's made us wait. The issue over his new throttlebodies that he's selling (he's pretty much selling F&B knock-offs without any credit given where it's due) indicates to me that he was probably waiting for someone else to do the research. Not that he's stealing from KRC or anybody else, but I bet his new piece is based off someone else's research. I also wonder what the turn-around time will be for Marty versus Dave Hughes.
These are just points to consider.... I need to see dyno graphs before I head in either direction.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2002
14:17:53
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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Alex,
Very solid points. I have my HO cams so I ahve the time to wait but it seems to be a very interesting time as everyone is starting to become a believer in our little cammers...
Chris
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/08/2002
14:21:49
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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That's another point in itself...
How much gain will I see with these cams (either of them) over my HO cams? Is THAT worth $600? Or $288?
I'm mostly interested in seeing a minimum of 250 rwhp... 275 would make my day. Then it will be time to get forceful with the induction.
As far as us getting recognized.... who me? Awwww it's just a lil ol' 287 ci weenie motor. heh.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2002
14:24:25
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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Alex, you sound jsut like me... I love beating guys from work THEN telling them I ihave such a small motor... Makes my day for a week...
Chris
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2002
14:36:48
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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I felt pretty good when a guy in a low 11-sec Nova came over to ask me how i get "so much lift from a pickup truck suspension?" I just showed him my slapper bars and factory shocks & grinned.
When you've got really fast guys asking you about your 14-sec truck, you know you're doing something right!
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Cotharyus
GenIII
11/08/2002
19:07:27
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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I have a feeling that you will eventually see a graph for Jonas' cams. I'll have a graph when I get some cams (basicly when they're ready). He is having his own springs made, I know that for sure. Not sure how you'll be able to get those though, but they'll certainly come with his heads. I think everyone looking for more out of thier 4.7 - Jonas is going to be the answer (not that marty doesn't have some good looking products) with his head/cam combo. I'm also very interested in seeing what he comes up with for custom flashes. He has told me he has 2001 and 2002 programs, but he is still working on reliable programing - he isn't just throwing numbers around, he's testing these things on his own truck (yea, he's got a 4.7).
2001 QC 4x4, 4.7,5 spd, LSD, 255/70-15's, K&N Gen II Intake, Robert Shaw 180 Stat, Hanson Enterprise custom front bumper, Highflow cat
Check out my Dak
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CW
GenIII
11/08/2002
20:36:57
|  RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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Personaly I would trust Martys specs way before I would trust what is on hughes site.
4.7 HO, CW style
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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KRC Tech
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/08/2002
21:20:06
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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I love competition, that is why there is two lanes at the dragstrip. But looking at the specs as a racer and not a business man, I would wager a cam with tighter lobe sep will win. Such as the new KRC 210 that is on a 110 and installed at 106, will blister the KRC 210 or 210B in a naturally aspirated motor and still pull 12" of vac. We have not dyno'ed the 206 cams yet, but they are proving to run past the 5200 rpm fall-off of the HO cams all the way to 6000 rpm. But we 1.9 sixty footed the test truck and blew the stock clutch out and reinstalled a new dual friction to test again. The other test truck is actually a Jeep in Indonesia that took second place with the cams in a World Rally and is upgrading to the 218/218 cams. We also dropped the prices as I promised on the KRC 206 cams. When the 218 cams are released, they will be called the 218 cams for clarity between the two sets. But anyway, we used the Cam Doctor to measure the HO spec's. I posted in the other forum also the following:
What I can gather from his spec's is that he is using stock cores to regrind, that is why he looses lobe separation and why he is requiring you to send in your old cams. I can tell you he is using the stock cores to grind his 208/220, regrinds usually lose one to 2 points of lobe separation. Why would you pay $179 for HO camshafts and then just give him your old camshafts? Something fishy there. As for who's is the best, only the track will tell, I am releasing the 218/218 cams in about 2 weeks also. Keep in mind when regrinding OH cams, the valve length needs attention too. Later!
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KRC Tech
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/08/2002
21:24:45
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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One more thing.... ask yourself why the other company is all of the sudden selling 4.7L parts when he told everyone on the phone it is a waste of time and the Hemi is only worth their time....
hmmmm......
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Chipster
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2002
23:02:45
| RE: 4.7 Camshafts Now Available
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You can read more about Marty's work on his
web site
http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/h
ome.html
look under KRC Latest News
Thanks Marty
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