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marv
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
12:26:23
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 Subject: 3 teens + driver killed
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Reading different posts on this board, it looks like a lot of you folks like to drive fast. Near Niagara Falls Ontario this weekend, a driver lost control of his car and struck and killed three teens walking along the sidewalk. A forth teen is crtically injured and the driver was killed after the car hit a tree after running down the kids. It hasn't been proven yet that speed was the problem, but that's what the police are leaning towards. Just remember the next time you roar away from a red light what the consequenses might be. It always seems the kids with the least amount of driving experience are the ones who think they are the best drivers. Please keep this in mind next time your thinking about racing the guy besides you. The life you save may be my wife or daughter.
Thanks alot guys
A concerned Canadian
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
13:56:22
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Marv, I hear what you're saying, and I want to commend you for having the courage to step up and say it. I also want to offer my sympathies to those kids and their families...what a tragic story.
Many, many times as I read these posts, I just sit and shake my head. I'm not exactly an old geezer yet, but I'm past the days of irresponsible, stupid circus acts behind the wheel of a car. On the first day of school this year in my city, a high school kid decided that he'd try to drive his Honda under a school bus at 65mph on a city street. He didn't make it. Of course, the school bus wasn't there when he started. All of this talk of "I waxed a (insert name of vehicle here)" is nonsense. If someone wants to race a Ford, or a ricer or whatever, go find a track, but as long as myself or someone that I care about is on the public roadways, unaware of their nearby lunacy, I'd appreciate it if they'd grow some brain and stay the hell off. The life they save may be their own...or mine.
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Bill
GenIII
 
10/21/2002
14:23:14
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I agree with what you both have said thus far on all accounts. I have only had my truck over 100 once and that was only briefly when I was sure it was safe. If anything, I am sometimes known for driving too slow, especially when I have passengers with me. It's not worth it to crash the truck and hurt myself or others just for a few mph faster.
Bill
Bill's Truck Page
ARE Tonneau Cover
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Marv
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
15:18:15
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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When I first posted this, I thought people would jump all over me for suggesting some people are irresponsible.
Glad to see I was wrong
A concerned Canadian
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xplikt
GenIII
10/21/2002
15:21:00
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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If anyone wants to know about the story of the kid in the Honda you can read more here:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/3877798.htm
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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Fubar512
GenIII
10/21/2002
15:45:09
|  RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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The vast majority of accidents are not caused by speeding, but by inattention.
After reading the account of the "Honda vs. School Bus" accident, I am inclined to say that the accident was caused by the bus driver pulling out into traffic without looking. The fact that the Honda was speeding, is what resulted in a fatality. But it sounds is if it was the Bus Driver's fault.
What we need is better driver education, with more emphasis placed on driving in the real world.
In most states, driver ed is a joke, consisting of nothing more then parking, signaling, and a written exam covering "rules of the road" (the majority of which are forgotten as soon as the recipient receives his or her license).
That being said, I am in no way condoning speeding, and or other reckless behavior.
Confucious say: Any man can pee on wall. Be a true hero and crap on ceiling! I've tried being a hero once too often...
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DakUSA
DakotaEnthusiast
10/21/2002
16:04:57
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I agree with what you said but the fact is as the cars are made faster and faster and more and more aftermarket products are made to make them go even faster people are going to race it is in our blood. Even the major car companies are doing it by making high HP street cars and trucks even dodge with the new ram tv ad shows a ram racing another car on the street. They build these high hp cars and trucks and expect you not to run them if you were to take it on the track they void your warenty so people don't. They are trying to produce the fastest street car and trucks. What do they think people are going to do with them drive them like grandma no they are going to put the hammer down. And Hollywood with the movies promoting street racing. The problem lies far past simple drivers ed. As parents we need to be the ones to teach our kids how to drive in the "Real World" don't leave it in the hands of some gym teacher. Start you kids out young and teach them how to handle Hp and use it the right way. Sure take them to the track and show them where it is to be used. The main reason I started a car club was to promote racing off the stree and on the track but as you all no there are not that many tracks and more and more people are trying to shut them down. they complain that the tracks are to noisy but when they get them shut down they complain that people are street racing. The underground racing seen is huge thousands of people are getting together in everycity in the us for street racing but no one wants to give them a place to race. I am no way agreeing with street racing but there would be a lot less of it if you didn't have to drive 3 hours to get to a track and many people don't even have that.
Chris Lambert
President Dakota USA
01 Graphite QC -- 4.7 Auto, K&N Drop in, MBRP Dual Exhaust Custom bent on 45s,
Bed Rug, Bed Rails, Euro Tails, Clear Fronts,Truxedo Bed cover, Custon Leather seats, NR Auto gauges,
Boyds Timeless 6s with 275/50/17 Nitto NT450s, GTS style hood, SS front
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xplikt
GenIII
10/21/2002
16:25:33
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Where I live we have to drive 5 hours to get to the nearest track and street racing is starting to become a noticed problem here. The solution so far has been to throw every person in jail and take their car. Way to stop human nature. Stories of deaths and pleas aren't going to stop street racing. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's true. Now, how to help the situation?
I am not an old timer, but are you going to tell me you didn't have street racing when you were young. My dad remembers going out and hunting other vehicles down with his friends. This is just a question, but were there as many deaths due to racing (proportionally) as there are today? Maybe we just notice it more due to the advent of the internet and better national publications. Also, don't forget the media LOVES THIS SH1T! I would have NEVER known about what happened in Kansas City if I had late 60s technology. Street racing is nothing new. I am not acting in defence of street racing, but just pointing out some other possibilities.
So you've found a problem, awesome, now it's time to solve it.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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P
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
16:27:18
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Be thankful that you dont live in San Antonio TX. We have had so many street racing deaths this year, that they have changed the laws.
Now if you are cought street racing they automatically impound your car and you go to jail.
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ME 111
R/T
10/21/2002
16:37:48
|  RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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One possible solution would be to coordinate the use of local(small) airstrips to accomodate our need for speed during downtime. Not saying it would totally eliminate the light2light pulls but it certainly would help. Their simply are not enough tracks out there.
Flame Red '99 R/T CC
52mm TB - HomeBrewed K&N Intake - 3923 AutoLites - Un-Relocated IAT - TPS @.73 - 180 TStat
Falken 285/60/R17s on Rear - RoadMaster Active Suspension - SS rollpan - XTang soft Tonneau - Mopar Bra
And one Heavy Foot
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Fubar512
GenIII
10/21/2002
16:41:09
|  RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I hate to say it, but the majority of these so called "street racers" (street ricers?) have no common sense, whatsoever. They drive as if they were in some video game.
I hate to plagiarize TV commercials (Man, that's really scraping the bottom-of-the-barrel!), but, a VW ad from a few years ago comes to mind..."In life, there is NO reset button!"
Confucious say: Any man can pee on wall. Be a true hero and crap on ceiling! I've tried being a hero once too often...
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dakdar darryl
GenII
10/21/2002
17:58:08
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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that is terrible
it happened in Welland bout 20 min from my house
it is in my local paper today
it was a guy in a late model monte carlo he said the pavement was wet and he hit the brakes .a witness said he heard no screaching or skidding tires
heres a link if you wanna read the article
http://www.canada.com/STCATHARINES/story.asp?id={E6FBA6CC-12DB-46F2-B2EA-86E9E057CDF2}
FMS injectors, Autolites,clear corners,V8 TB ,
Pro Comp es9000,Airraid intake with 97 air hat, R/T Rims
S-bolt mod, relocated IAT
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
18:04:25
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I friend that I known since we were in grade 5, was killed last Friday in a head on collision. She was only 23 years old. Now there doing a huge investigations into what happened. This happened just north of Toronto.
Anthony
www.geocities.com/dak2nv/
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Marv
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
18:14:10
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I guess I'm the old timer you referred to LOL I'm 55 and sure there was street racing when I was a kid. There will be street racing when your 55 and when your kids are 55 they'll still be doing it. Sure you want to go and race your Dak, but just because there are no tracks in your area doesn't mean you can race on the street and endanger someones life. That's like saying I don't have a job so I'll get a gun and rob a bank and if some innocent guy gets killed, it's because I don't have a job. I don't know the answer to getting a race track, but please don't race on the street. That's all I'm asking. How would you feel if the person that got killed was your Mom or Sister.
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b1llyw
DakotaEnthusiast
10/21/2002
18:37:30
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Speeding beyond all reason is of course, stupid. What I believe is worse is: People who don't use their signal lights, fail to check their mirrors, blow through stop signs, and run lights. People who fail to maintain their brakes so that their vehicles can't stop when they have to. People who don't replace their windshield wipers so they can see in bad weather. People who dont' turn their headlights on in the rain or in the snow.
In short, it's like the gun debate. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well, speed doesn't kill people, arrogant stupidity kills people.
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92 9.25, 1995 Dakota CC, 4x2, SLT, 318, 5 spd, 3.55 8.25
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
18:55:45
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Their is no safe speed at all. Driveing is dangerious!!! Driveing recklessly and selfishly are what kills people. The most dangerious people I see on the roads are the lane hogs that choose to drive 45-50 MPH in a 70MPH zone in the fast lane when their are plenty of slow lanes available. They do not care that they are chokeing the road and causeing traffic jams for 8 miles. These lane hogs have to do this in the morning when every one is in a rush to go to work. The little old lady or man driveing 15MPH in a 45MPH down the main drag in their Lincoln weaveing around and cutting people off is also a problem. Speed by itself is not dangerious. If people would exercise some common sense then most accidents would not happen at all. I agree with previous poster about the need for much more agressive drivers ed and graduated driveing privilages.
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Snowman
GenIII
10/21/2002
19:19:38
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I agree whole heartedly about the better driver's ed. In calaifornia it's getting better requiring 50 hours of behind the wheel with a parent or guardian and then they cannot drive with anyone under the age of 21 unless there is a licensed driver over the age of 25 in the front seat until they are 18.
Anyone who disagees with this shold take a look at germany where getting a driver's license takes forever and a lot of time and training. There they drive 120+ on the autobahn and have less then half the acccidents we do.
Formerly Cadetdak
"This war will end at a time and place of our choosing"
president Bush
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
20:29:08
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I am proud of all of the posts on this topic, posted by my fellow Dakota brothers. They show some true insight and rationality. I, too, was expecting to jump into the middle of a "screw you" festival. The bottom line is, I believe, that no matter who you are or where you drive, we must all realize that we are not alone on the road. We must all use common sense and good judgment at ALL TIMES. We must all think not only for ourselves, but for those who don't use their turn signals, make improper stops and lane changes, run red lights, neglect their cars, etc,. etc...the list goes on. This is the only way that we can in some way ensure our survival on the road, and maybe that of someone else. We must realize that each time we get behind the wheel, we are piloting a guided missile...a lethal weapon. We can have a whole lot of fun doing it, but it brings with it an awesome repsonsibility. We have to be mature enough to accept it, and act accordingly...P
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Drew
Dodge Dakota
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10/21/2002
20:35:55
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Yes, i completely understand...i had my first accident experience(well, sorta the second, but really the first) just this Saturday...
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Ross
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2002
01:32:31
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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First year of driving, I was a total dumbass. 2 tickets and 1 accident later (that year), I'm paying some people's car payments for insurance! Learn from your mistakes or from your friend's. I for one will think twice about speeding or running that stop sign. Every dollar reminds me how much of a dumbass I was. Big price to pay for being dumb I guess. Life long lesson =/
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2002
09:13:50
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I am another one, I drive fast. I will not deny this, BUT there is a time, place, and mentality (awareness) to all of it. You cannot drive fast under miserable conditions be it weather traffic or when you are drunk / tired... This is what causes accidents... Just think first because I agree that it is people who kill people, it is just the weapon that differs from case to case....
Chris
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92dakotahd
GenII
10/22/2002
10:50:06
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Ok, there have been about 7-8 kids killed in my area in the last 3 years or so.
3 killed in dodge avenger when he hits a small hill in the road and goes airborne for !! 85 feet!! car hits a truck head on while in the air ends up in a field and catches fire. (Driver was 2-3 months from graduating HS)
1 killed in old Monte SS when he loses control at about 90 on a country road.
1 killed in 98 dak when while going 45 he goes to change CD and hits a tree head on. (One day after he graduated HS.)
1 killed on Suzuki Katana 600 while running from the cops looses control of his bike and it's a pole(possibly 2 poles) at 110 mph, he graduated with me and almost missed that due to an accident on the same bike a month before graduation the year before.
1 killed in an 89 dakota while speeding to school looses control of his truck, and flips through a field, no seatbelt. HS senior
All of these people were teenagers.
K&N, '01 wheels, Window Tint, Harley-Davidson badging, red underbody kit, ext.
Window covers, Harley-Davidson mudflaps, custom cat-back exhaust,
head/taillight covers, ventshades side and rear, ram air on the way. Autolite 3923s, 180 T-Stat
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Fubar512
GenIII
10/22/2002
11:19:48
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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We lost two members of our senior class in high school, due to motor vehicle accidents, back in 1976.
One guy, riding a Harley, broadsided a Cadillac that had failed to yield at an intersection. He flew over the Caddy's hood, struck a parked truck headfirst, and was killed instantly (no helmet laws in those days).
Another guy, who had received a '74 GTO as a graduation present, tried top-ending his car on a local highway, lost control, and struck a wall at an oblique angle, catapulting his car into a river.
That last one really hit home, as this dude and myself had been talking about joining the Air Force, and had planned to meet at the recruiter's office the next day. I waited for him almost all day, and was thinking of some choice words to use when I caught up with him, then I received the bad news....
Despite this (and other examples), it seems that more kids are getting killed today behind the wheel, then ever before.
Confucious say: Any man can pee on wall. Be a true hero and crap on ceiling! I've tried being a hero once too often...
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97_blk_dak
GenIII
10/23/2002
00:14:37
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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It's sad that here in south Georgia, we don't even have a driver's ed program. Just a written test.
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
00:22:22
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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Kids think that they're immortal, and that they have the most highly developed driving skills in the universe, when it's just the opposite on both counts. Everyone can probably relate stories like these...a year before the Honda/schoolbus incident that I talked about early on in this thread, a 16 year old kid in an Integra was racing another car down a busy street, lost it and centerpunched a telehone pole. 3 kids dead, if I remember right. As a matter of fact, the driver of the Honda that slid under the schoolbus knew that kid, and had attended a vigil that called for safer teen driving! They might do 100 stupid things and get away with it, but there's always going to be that one...that one momentary lapse of judgment...out there waiting on them, and that's the one that'll kill them. What a shame. Please drive safely tonight!
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92dakotahd
GenII
10/23/2002
00:33:04
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I'm not trying to pick a fight but remember that it's not all kids. I'm 19 and haven't broken 85 in like 2 years. And that was passing bad situations on the interstate.
K&N, '01 wheels, Window Tint, Harley-Davidson badging, red underbody kit, ext.
Window covers, Harley-Davidson mudflaps, custom cat-back exhaust,
head/taillight covers, ventshades side and rear, ram air on the way. Autolite 3923s, 180 T-Stat
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
10:30:08
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I probably should've clarified. By saying "kids", I meant new, young drivers in general. I work for a school district that has 4 high schools, and I know better than to be just arriving or trying to leave when school lets out. Most of the kids use good judgment and obey the traffic laws. But, there's always that group that feels like they have center stage, and everybody wants to see them act stupid.
I was in high school in the late '60's and early '70's...the mecca of muscle car years. Every where I looked, there was a Super Bee, SS 396, Boss 302, take your pick. So, I still remember what it's like to be young and have a lot of power available at your right foot. It breaks my heart to see young people's lives snuffed out by a lapse in judgment. It's the time of their lives when their physical reflexes are at their peak, and they tend to think that they can do anything. That's what I meant by "immortal". It's sad when they're killed so young because of something that could've been prevented so easily. Who knows what kind of contribution that kid could've made...it's a waste. If you drive safely, I salute you.
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92dakotahd
GenII
10/23/2002
10:47:07
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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I'll share the pet-peeve of mine. Why do parents buy these kids fast cars? Or fund the build-up? I know a kid who while he was a junior in HS his parents bought him a nearly brand new(4500miles) Corvett convertable. And I'm not talking about his dad bought it and "let" him take it to school. It was his. there is also some little sophomore who grand mother funded an eclipse that is sub 13 seconds supposedly.
K&N, '01 wheels, Window Tint, Harley-Davidson badging, red underbody kit, ext.
Window covers, Harley-Davidson mudflaps, custom cat-back exhaust,
head/taillight covers, ventshades side and rear, ram air on the way. Autolite 3923s, 180 T-Stat
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
19:47:42
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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92dakotahd, I know exactly what you're talking about. It doesn't make any sense to me, either. The school district that I work for is in a suburban area...a very well-to-do suburban area. I can't afford to live in the district, but my daughter finished out her last 2 years at 1 of our high schools. There were Lincoln Navigators and Porsche Boxsters in her school parking lot. She told me that one kid's Dad bought him a Saleen Mustang...a $50,000 car. He had it less than a year before he totaled it, and that was after receiving several tickets. I don't think that these kids appreciate this stuff when they just have it handed to them, and the parents have to be nuts for doing it. I remember my first car...a little 6-banger, 3 speed '66 Mustang coupe. I worked after school, Saturdays, and 6 days a week during the summer for $1 an hour to pay off that car.
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
19:49:54
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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92dakotahd, I know exactly what you're talking about. It doesn't make any sense to me, either. The school district that I work for is in a suburban area...a very well-to-do suburban area. I can't afford to live in the district, but my daughter finished out her last 2 years at 1 of our high schools. There were Lincoln Navigators and Porsche Boxsters in her school parking lot. She told me that one kid's Dad bought him a Saleen Mustang...a $50,000 car. He had it less than a year before he totaled it, and that was after receiving several tickets. I don't think that these kids appreciate this stuff when they just have it handed to them, and the parents have to be nuts for doing it. I remember my first car...a little 6-banger, 3 speed '66 Mustang coupe. I worked after school, Saturdays, and 6 days a week during the summer for $1 an hour to pay off that car.
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FredDQC
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
20:19:18
| RE: 3 teens + driver killed
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People and I say in general "people" should realize that an automobile is a machine, not a couch where you just seat and watch, and like any other machinery, you should know how to use it. When have you seen a crane operator or a commercial pilot on the cell phone, listening to loud music or putting make up while using these machines?. Driving take more that just stepping on the pedal and moving the wheel; it takes concentration, attention, and reflexes. You always have to see what is ahead and observe driving behavior of the drivers around you, know how to merge into a lane and how to keep proper distance. !Good Driving is not slow driving! more accidents are caused buy people driving real slow than people driving fast. At least here where I live. To prove this, statistics show that the car accidents increase dramatically between the months of september thru february. by coincidance, those are the months that we are visited by "winter texans"(retired old people that travel from north states to texas for the winter).So the next time you drive, DRIVE.
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