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BlackDak02
*GenIII*
10/12/2002
00:28:26
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 Subject: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Dunno, might be wrong, but I'm thinking this engine sludge issue might have to do with the condensate in the oil filler neck that they covered up with the baffle in the 4.7L engine.
Check here
Mike W posted this link in this V6 thread that a woman started in the wrong forum about a blown 4.7L engine. I looked at it and something clicked and I remembered the thread about the filler neck. DC is trying to cover their azz by saying owners are not maintaining their vehicles. Just a heads up.
One of many foam threads.
2002 Black CC SLT 4x4
4.7L 45RFE 3.55 LSRD
"Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
Descartes
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BlackDak02
*GenIII*
10/12/2002
01:03:30
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Found this off a google search:
'Subject: oil sludge with 2000 dakota 4.7 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:00:47 EST From: Jaydell@aol.com Right now my dakota is down with major engine problems - maybe even needs a new engine. Saying it will cost at the very least $4000. Sludge in the oil pan and and all over the oil cap and filler tube. Caused a oil pressure problems which only would pop up a few times on the gages. WOuld last a sec or two and then show oil pressure was fine. They are saying it was poor oil quality or that I did not change the oil enough. I followed the manual on changing and I cannot believe the places I took it to would use a low grade oil. As your dakota gets older I would be very careful of this sludge problem. If it is like dodge says thatv this does not cause a problem - why then do they have replacement oil cap and something that goes in to the filler tube that only reduces the problem and does not elimate the problem? Jay'
2002 Black CC SLT 4x4
4.7L 45RFE 3.55 LSRD
"Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
Descartes
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kennungesser
*GenI*
10/12/2002
09:46:13
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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When I switched to Mobile 1 Tri Syn, I thought that it may solve the prob. After 2000 miles , the sludge was still there , but not as much.Changed the oil again using the same oil but went with a Mobil One filter. went another 3,500 miles , and NEVER saw the slude again! So The last time I changed the Oil , I used a Frame filter , I'll look today and see if the sludge is back. Would the filter make a diff? The miles are aprox, I don't get alot of miles on the truck , so I go my time in , not miles.
Kenneth L Nungesser
"We are determined to defend our lands and, if it be the "Great Spirit's" will, we wish to leave our bones upon them."
Tecumseh, Shawnee Chief 1813
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mills
GenIII
10/12/2002
10:38:08
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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i also had sludge on my 00 4.7, but upon switching to mobil 1 i havent had a bit of it yet. ken., i have used a few different filters and that has not made a difference at least on mine (ive used purolater, bosch, and napa gold). my change was immediate upon using the synthetic.
I'd go crazy if I cared!
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BlackDak02
*GenIII*
10/12/2002
11:48:42
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I don't think the filter would make a difference Ken. I've done three oil changes and tried a different filter each time- Purolator Pur1, Mobil 1 and currently a K&N oil filter. I'm also running Mobil 1 in my motor, maybe the synthetic makes a difference.
Do you guys have the baffle in the filler neck? The foam is supposed to accumulate below the baffle, as DC put the baffle in so they could put it 'out of sight out of mind' so to say.
I dunno, maybe this is a dino oil issue, but as soon as it stops raining out here I'm going to pull the filler tube off and see if it's clean or not.
2002 Black CC SLT 4x4
4.7L 45RFE 3.55 LSRD
"Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
Descartes
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mills
GenIII
10/12/2002
15:03:17
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Message:
no baffle on mine
I'd go crazy if I cared!
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Art
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2002
16:14:09
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I keep document this prob to my dealer,I only see the foaming in the winter,never does it in the summer ever,Ive used mobil-1 10-30 syn since day 1 and K&N oil filter and now Amsoil filter.The problem comes from the design of the oil filler being composite,aluminum heads and magnesium valve covers all having different heat disipation properties,and cold weather and short trips make it worse.My dealer admited its a problem but can not do anything because chrysler wont do anything about it,so I just go down once a month and have them look at it and document,then I clean it out. Aswell keep all my oil change records,mine is a 01 baffle allready came with it and its no fix at all,what they need is a valve cover with a oil fill built in it and block off plate for the filler neck.I wont make it myself,I will just want a new motor when the time comes.
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BlackDak02
*GenIII*
10/12/2002
19:35:44
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Yeah I agree Art, either block it off like you said or cast the filler out of metal. Good move with the documentation.
Hmm, guess the problem is a regional one then, people in the deep south where the weather stays warm won't have this problem.
2002 Black CC SLT 4x4
4.7L 45RFE 3.55 LSRD
"Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
Descartes
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MikeW
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2002
21:30:40
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Message:
Toyota engines also have a problem with sludge. Evidently engine design plays a role. The quality of the oil (Shear stability) can be a major factor in the formation of sludge.
I recommend reading about oil shear at the following link.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm
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Mark Saturday
Dodge Dakota
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1/01/2003
21:23:25
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I live in northern Indiana and have a 4.7L 2002 Dodge Ram 1500. Changed my oil the 3rd time within 12K miles. Attendant showed me the oil fill cap with a jello-type tannish substance mixed with water built up on the underside of the cap. Sent two page letter to the dealer. Their reply was that the "baffle" was probably not replaced with the last fill. The attendant said he sees this on Dodge 4.7 L regularly. I am going to follow up with the oil change shop but seems like I'm going to be stuck in the middle. Any information fom you all would be appreciated.
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/02/2003
11:16:14
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I'm thinking luckily, I do my own oil changes. It seems people are having better results with the all synthetic oils. I use Mobil 1, have a 01 QC 4.7 5spd, and have never seen this buildup. I'll look closer though. I do live in SE TX, fairly hot around here, with my commutes always getting the temp gauge up to the normal area for my 180 degree t-stat.
When I installed my HO cams myself at around 27K, the heads and under the valve covers looked like brand new, NO sludge anywhere in there anyway.
This is definitely a concern, And it's always been a concern of mine regarding oils used at these oil change shops. That's why I ALWAYS change my own oil, and no dino oil here!
HOwever, the dino oil shouldn't have this problem in the 4.7, somethings amuck here!
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BigRedDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/02/2003
12:28:55
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I'm lost..... do you have to replace some sort of baffle when you change the oil??? I replace the filter with purlator and oil with mobil 1 dyno everytime. Is there something i'm missing here?
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ScottE
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/02/2003
16:20:36
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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No, you're missing nothing. Dodge created a removable baffle that fits in the fill tube, I have one on my 03. It does nothing but keep you from looking down into the fill tube and SEEING the snot that grows there. Has nothing to do with oil changes, other than removing it to pour the oil in. BTW, the dino oil that came in my rig grew the snot - cleaned as much out as I could when I did the first change to Mobile 1, almost 2k ago - no more goop. And none in the valve covers when I put in the cams.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/02/2003
21:54:24
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Message:
I get some light accumulation of foamy oil in my fill neck. I get less with synthetic and I did not have this when I was driveing it 80 miles a day for work.Once the wifes started parking it and just useing it for around town driveing it started it. I have not seen any of this in the oil on oil changes and have not seen it on the dipstick ever. A lot of guys have done the HO cam swap and non of them saw any sludge on the inside of their engines at all. WHile I do not like it either it seems to be doing no harm. SOme gys have sampled their oil and also not had any thing stand out in the report as ab-mormal. I too have seen this on my moms Toyota Tundra but not as bad.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/06/2003
12:24:13
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Message:
BlackDak02,
Hope You Find This Helpful.
-----
ACCUMULATION OF FOAMY OIL EMULSION 4.7L ENGINE OIL FILL HOUSING
Date: 09/11/00 (02/00)
Bulletin # 090100A (supercedes 090100)
Model year(s): 1999-2000
Description:A customer may complain of an oil emulsion accumulation inside the engine oil fill housing. The oil emulsion will normally be foamy and be gray or light brown in color. The emulsion accumulation will often occur on cooler engine surfaces, like the inside of the oil fill housing. Modern engine oils are designed to address the oil emulsion phenomenon. Oil emulsion accumulation is normal and will not damage the engine A new baffle and a revised oil fill housing cap have been released. The baffle and oil cap will help to reduce the amount of oil emulsion accumulation within the oil fill housing.
Details: If the customer has experienced this issue, then perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
53032126AA Baffle, Oil Fill Housing
53032389AC Cap, Oil Fill Housing
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/06/2003
12:47:39
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Waht about all the seized, well maintained 4.7s I read about on the links of BlackDaks02 post?
Did you read any of them? It's gets me worried, seemed like they were mostly 2000's though.
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John Milner
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/06/2003
12:59:12
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Message:
If the only "milk shake" is in the filler tube neck, I wouldn't be concerned. After a few miles with a warm engine, most of this moisture will evaporate. However, any oil in the crankcase that appears to have this appearence would be cause to check the integity of the cooling system, head gaskets, etc etc. I have a new 2002 with the 4.7, and have seen slight water formation on the filler neck, even with the baffle installed, but only since the relative humidity has risen. Hope this sheds some light on this ongoing problem.
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SpongeBob
GenIII
1/06/2003
20:20:22
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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This milk shake Baffle thing is a no brainer...they put the baffle in the filler neck to hide the milk shake from the average Joe blow!You don't have to remove the baffle to add a quart of oil,so your not going to see it.For the most part if you have a leaking head gasket on that aluminum head your going to get more than a milk shake.
00 Dakota SLT 4.7 auto 235 hp auto 355 LS
02 Grand Cherokee 4x4 4.7 235 hp
89 Mustang 2dr 5.0 5spd 355 gear {many engine mods}
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/07/2003
14:37:38
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Message:
Curiostiy got the best of me, and I looked under my oil filler cap on my 01 4.7 this a.m., after I drove only 1 mile to a gas station.
I use Mobil 1, since the first 3K, it now has 31K on it.
The cap had a few moisture beads on it, no sludge.
As others have stated, I simply removed the baffle using the handy thumb tab located right on it.
Nothing under it, no sludge! I now have about 3K on the last oil change, Mobil 1 10-30.
Don't know why not, I'll keep checking from time to time for it.
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SpongeBob
GenIII
1/07/2003
18:27:35
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Message:
Texas Todd....You are not going to see sludge in your fill spot.People that see it live in cold climates.I live in Ohio and see it in the coldest of the winter,not one drop when it gets warm out side.
Zoom zoom zoom
00 Dakota SLT 4.7 auto 235 hp auto 355 LS
02 Grand Cherokee 4x4 4.7 235 hp
89 Mustang 2dr 5.0 5spd 355 gear {many engine mods}
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teamfast
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/22/2003
19:16:30
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Went to dealer, told to clean it myself, and be shure to change PCV valve. Apparently the sludge will blow out the cam seals and not be covered under warranty, what a fkn joke, im sick of having a new vehicle, its not worth it, such BS!
At least with a used you arent spending all sorts of money and you only have yourself to answer to!
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SpongeBob
GenIII
1/22/2003
20:00:19
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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teamfast who told you that the sludge would blow out your cam seals? Some one Help me with this one,do the internal cams have seals to blow and where would the oil go? I think some one was jerking you.
00 Dakota SLT 4.7 auto 235 hp auto 355 LS
02 Grand Cherokee 4x4 4.7 235 hp
89 Mustang 2dr 5.0 5spd 355 gear {many engine mods}
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teamfast
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/22/2003
23:01:14
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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The service manager told me this. I have the shop manual but have never removed ohc cams before....still reading...
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Rob454
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
01:37:26
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I never had sludge in the oil filler cap or anywhere lese. i use normal oil and AC delco filters and have had no problems. i dont use synthetic oil. I use the Walmart brand which is Quaker state oil ( friend works as a manager at walmart and tod me thats who they get it from
Rob
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
08:27:50
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Teamfast,
Good morning. LIke S. Bob is thinking, I think they're jerking you.
1st, if it's been maintained properly, and under warranty, and it goes, THEY have to pay for it!
2nd, I have done the HO ohc's on my 4.7. WHAT CAM SEALS?!? The cam is hollow, with an internal oiling system for the rockers and journals. Cam seals? Are those next to the muffler bearings?
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2003
08:29:10
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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OH yea, if it's under warranty, have Them clean the crud, and change the PCV!
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SpongeBob
GenIII
1/23/2003
19:41:00
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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As I have said many times,you will only get the milk shake if your truck is out in the {very} cold over night.It is wise to keep your PCV changed any way.Keep your oil changed and drive it and enjoy.
Chrysler = Love
00 Dakota SLT 4.7 auto 235 hp auto 355 LS
02 Grand Cherokee 4x4 4.7 235 hp
89 Mustang 2dr 5.0 5spd 355 gear {many engine mods}
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jp
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/03/2003
01:11:45
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I am having the sludge in my dakota. I have a 2000 4.7 liters with 15,000 miles on it. I am in kansas, I done the pcv thing I started with castrol gtx 10w-30 and fram tg16 filter. For the first 10,000 and no stuff in the tube. Then i went to mobil 1 new super syn 10w-30 same filter. Then it started. I took it in and they did a presser check it check out. Now i am back with castrol gtx 10w-30 and i change filters, I got one for dealership. I got the new cap and stuff. Nothing change I took out the baffle nothing change. Now I am looking for help any were i can. I have the big shop book that dodge puts out and they say nothing about this stuff.
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
08:09:00
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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jp, you don't drive your truck!
15K, on a 2000, that's sick.
my 2001 has over twice that, and I never joy ride it! YOu guys that put 2-300 ,miles a week, you deserve sludge in your oil! 8*)
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
2/03/2003
09:50:51
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I got 29K on my 2002. No sludge since using Mobil 1 5W-30 Tri Syn. Had a little before with T-Rex oil.
K&N Drop in AF
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
Modified TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
12:04:45
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I meant to say 2-300 miles a month. Hell I drive 2-300 miles a week.
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