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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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6/25/2003
18:16:56
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 Subject: RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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You wanna know what I found interesting? Look around on the site consumeraffairs.com
You may be able to notice what it took me only minutes to see. Vehicles in general seems to have a multitude of problems. I say we scrap them all and start riding friggin horses again.
Wake up folks.... If you talk to enough people, somebody has had a "life changing" problem with everything. Ask enough questions and you will eventually get a negative answer if you want one. Allow people to bitch without investigating their complaint and the will bitch even louder.
There is NO pattern of engine failure in the Dodge V-8 engines. They do have some tendancies to have minor problems, but the 5.2 and 5.9 will consistently get 200,000 miles or more if you want it. TRUST me though, it's up to you, not DODGE. The 4.7 seems to be getting great service so far with the only exception (that I know of) is owners will NOT be able to do long interval oil changes with them. They WILL sludge on long interval changes. They will not handle long interval like the 5.2 and 5.9. As soon as a real pattern develops, I will be happy to let you know about it, but there is not one yet. AND...foam in the filler cap is NOT leading to engine failures. Stop wasting your breathe aboout it. Try some real research before you freak out.
Here is a REAL fact for you...DaimlerChrysler warranty claims are down 40% over the last 5 years. Mostly due to improved transmissions but also because of a commitment to improved quality. I have seen this here at the dealer at which I work. Trust me, as a service advisor, I hear ALL of the real problems.
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JJJ
Dodge Dakota
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6/26/2003
05:58:19
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Yes JasonB, but Toyota and Mercedes Benz also denied that their vehicles had MAJOR problems for the longest of time. #1) Toyota 3.0 is a sludger ... it has to do with the belts shearing the oil and the smaller ports which cook the oil, and 2) Mercedes tried to skirt the issue of their IDIOT LIGHT OIL CHANGE INTERVAL RECOMMENDATION. Seems the interval was based on using SYNTHETIC OIL ONLY, and people were blowing their engines using dino. Toyota has admitted they covered it up for years, and Mercedes had to be taken to court to be forced to pay up. I think the Durango article posted earlier might be just scratching the surface of what is really BAD with some DC Engines. You work for DC so I understand why you have to defend them. But please stay try to stay unbiased.
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Yup
Dodge Dakota
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6/26/2003
10:07:53
|  RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Mercedes=DC=denial
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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6/26/2003
12:37:26
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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OK, so let me get this straight. I see 10 or 15 5.2L, 5.9L and 4.7L engines DAILY. Often, I see these owners getting well over 250,000 miles from the 5.2 and 5.9 engines. And, I have seen already a handful of 4.7 engines with over 100,000 miles. Here's some observation for you: these same 5.2/5.9 engines that are "blowing"...somehow every now and again get 400,000 or more miles with no major repairs. This is an abnormality for most any gasoline engine, but it happens. Why is that important? Because the claims being made here seems to be based on failures only, NOT failures compared to non-failures. Failure RATE is a more important number. My "opinion" is based on my experiences and observations. It is not based on any loyalties. Do your homework. There is no coverup here. You will find no more legitamate engine failures on these vehicles than any others.
To be honest, the ONLY V-8 engines with consistent major repairs were the new design Ford engines in the mid/late 90's. If I remember right, Ford did the right thing and made quick corrections to the design.
I have also the benefit of getting to speak to many customers who have owned or who currently also own other makes of trucks. Many of them talk about some of the engine problems that they have with competitors vehicles. Often that is why poeple will trade. But unlike many people, I do not jump to any conclusions about Chevy or Ford coverups, although you will find many complaints listed for those vehicles on the consumer affairs sites and consumer "advocate" sites. My guess is that lots of those complaints are the same. Oops, I got one that did not (for whatever reason) last as long as everyone else and I want to bitch and see if someone will have to PAY for their "bad engines".
Get a grip, just because you can not make good toast with your new GE toaster, does not mean GE is covering up a "problem" with their toasters. Also, instead of finding people who have also had problems making toast, why not look for people that can make great toast and ask them about their experiences and what they are doing differently. Oh wait, I know why, because it's unimportant to know that if you are whining.
Do not get me wrong people. I have and will continue to see "premature" engine failures. It happens to all vehicles DC makes. And at those moments I am the advisor you want on your side because I will do all I can do to get any and all DC assistance if and when available. I am an advocate for my customers, especially when they need help. I am not, and will never be, on the side of people who are intersted only in "something for nothing". Trust me, they are everywhere. And they come see me ONLY when they think DC makes bad products.
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Cliff
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2003
12:07:34
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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I know the subject line has changed a bit, but has anyone else had an engine meltdown, know any other websites, etc. I had a Durango meltdown at 45k and now drive my brothers dakota.
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DavidM
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2003
14:49:31
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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How do you detect oil sludge without taking off
rocker arm cover?
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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6/30/2003
10:19:14
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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DavidM...Depending on how severe it is, sometimes you can get an indication of it by simply looking under the oil fill cap. Removal of the oil pan will tell a large story as well as the rocker cover as you stated.
When looking under the oil fill cap, do not be deceived by light foaming. In some engine designs, this area is much cooler than the rest of the engine and will allow for condensation of vapors. This has been the source of much debate for the 4.7L V-8 already and has fooled TOO many consumers into believing there is a real problem with the engine. In fact, teardowns have often proven to be fruitless in many instances.
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FT
Dodge Dakota
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6/30/2003
16:30:43
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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Dodge Bulletin 09-05-00 dated February 25, 2000, addresses the replacement of the engine intake manifold plenum pan gasket in certain 3.9L, 5.2L and 5.9L gas engines to solve a problem with oil leakage. This is an internal leak, so many Dodge dealerships do not correctly diagnose the problem and have not honored warranty claims indicating that the owner of the truck is not properly maintaining the vehicle by not changing the oil. The oil will often sludge and oil consumption increases.
The internal leak in the manifold plenum pan gasket causes an additional vacuum source inside the engine at the location of the pan gasket leakage. Engine combustion blow-by gases, oil vapor, and air from the crank case filter/breather may be drawn past the leaking pan gasket and into the intake manifold. Two symptoms of this oil leak condition is spark knock during acceleration and/or an increase in the amount of engine oil consumed by the engine. Conventional oil will likely sludge.
Here is a list of those models involved in this recall:
1994-1999 (AB) Ram Van
1994-1999 (AN) Dakota
1994-1999 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
1998-1999 (DN) Durango
1994-1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee
1996-1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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6/30/2003
18:16:27
| RE: Sludge!!!(oil fill baffle scam)
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FT...for the record, you referred to this BULLETIN as a RECALL near the end of your post. This is inacurate. There is a service bulletin for the repair that simply gives more specific diagnostic procedures aimed at the failure as well as giving more detailed and revised information for the repair.
This is a very common failure on the 5.2 and 5.9 liter V-8 engines. At our dealership, the diagnosis is NOT overlooked. I can not speak for other dealerships, but it would not surprise me in the least to know that other dealerships (other repair facilities in general) have and will continue to mis-diagnose this failure.
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