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eallen
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
11:28:38
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 Subject: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Hi,
I have a 2001 4.7 4X4 QC with aprox 23,000 miles
on it. I have had problems in the past with
pinging on 87 octane gas but switched to 89 and
then 93 about 6 months ago to eliminate pinging.
Well the pinging is back - and I'm running '93 octane!!
The pinging is pretty bad (I think)
If I go over 2000 rpms while accelerating
around 30-45 mph I get pinging. I tried replacing
the spark plugs with the Autolite 3923's with no
difference in pinging.
Here are some pics of the spark plugs that were
removed... I don't know too much about what
the condition of the plug means but I took a
picture of a good and a bad one. The worst
one came form the passenger side rear
of the engine.
Any help would be appreicated!!
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
9/04/2002
11:42:08
|  RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Something Causeing it to run really warm in the back. There is an awfull lot of oil on the outside of them plugs. ???????? It looks like antifreeze burn on the electrode itself. I (personal opinion) think the head gasket is blown, and it's getting exhaust gas in the cooling system and causeing it to run warm and pinging. It's still under warranty take it back to the dealer with the original plugs back in it.
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
12:33:16
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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If you take it in under warranty ... DO NOT get the software update!!!! I repeat DO NOT. There is a TSB (#18-002-01 or 18-001-01) that solves the pinging problem and no doubt they will try this as the first thing... all the update does though is retards the timine (6 deg. I think)
(and sucks up some hp at the same time)
Your problem is somewhere else looking at the spark plugs (i.e. its more than a simple timing problem). But the software update is the easiest thing for the dealer to do so it'll be the first thing the want to try ... make a point of telling them not to!
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polchartude
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
12:36:42
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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I second that motion. (head gasket)
Pull the radiator cap off,
start the engine and let it warm (stat open)
gouge on the throttle linkage.
If the head gasket is blwn, exhaust will blow out of the radiator.
Hope this helps and at least you'll know what the deal is.
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Ottawadak
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
12:38:45
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Yeah - that damn software update!
Ever since I got that done, my truck is a dog up to 3000 RPM
Now it'll cost me a pile for a custom flash to fix it.
Good luck
OttawaDak
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eallen
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
12:39:08
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Changing the plugs is a pain in the a$$ and I really don't want do put the old ones back in. Will the dealer complain about the 3293 plugs being that they are not the direct replacement plugs that Autolite recommends? Will these 3293's void the warranty?
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CW
GenIII
9/04/2002
14:25:46
|  RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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The flash may help in bad cases like this one.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
14:44:44
|  RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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spoken like a true dealer tech! :p
heh heh .. j.k.
True it would help for extreme cases, but it really looks to me that the trouble isn't the timing advance. A blown headgasket seems to be the working theory but you can't really diagnose the truck over the net.
eallen: were all the bad ones from one side? (i.e. passenger or driver side)
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eallen
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
15:02:13
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Now that I think about it, I think the worst ones were on the driver's side because that is the side I did first and I remember being suprised that the other side wasn't as bad.
Can anyone tell me if the dealer will have problems with the 3293 plugs???
Will it be ok if I just bring the old plugs with to show them?
BTW.. Thanks for all of the replies... It's great to see this board open again!
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
15:20:56
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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but did both sides have some bad, some good? or was one side perfect and the other side fouled?
As for the dealer having problems with the plugs, I don't know ... I would think not, but it all depends on the dealer.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
15:26:07
| Hot Plug!!!
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How tight were the plugs in the head? That worst looking one looks like a plug that was loose. If the plug is loose it will not be able to dissapate heat well enough and will overheat. That will cause it to pre-ignite the charge and ping like a bastud! Once the plug is overheated it's damaged goods and must be replaced. Just tightening it again after the fact won't help.
My first step would be to buy a new set of 5224 Autolites, gap them at .040" and put them in. Make completely sure that the end cap is on tightly also. Use some anti-sieze on the threads. Don't overtighten the plugs but make sure they are seated and tight. Drive it that way and let us know if it still pings.
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
15:49:42
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Bellevue Dodge flashed my PCM because my tranny was acting up and it killed my performance. It didn't help the tranny at all. So I waited a bit for a couple of other things to go wrong (they always do: )) and took it back to Lynnwood dodge. Told them that Bellevue dodge flashed it and made it a dog. They reflashed and made her fast again!
YJ
Black 2K QC 4x4 4.7 3.92 kvt910dvd
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lilbigrig
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
16:06:52
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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hey yj,
lynnwood really reflashed your truck? i'm pretty sure that bellevue flashed mine (the death flash) when i had the fan fixed last year, sure would be nice to get some of my lost mpg back!
i have to take it in anyway, the tranny seals are starting to leak---
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eallen
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
16:13:09
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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The plugs were in there VERY tight. It ALMOST took a breaker bar on the ratchet to get them out! Being that I installed the 3923's I would think that the 5224's would NOT make a difference. I tighetned them to 1/4 to 1/2 turn after they were finger tight. I made shure that they were gapped to .040
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
16:15:05
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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YJ .. can you look at your PCM or work order and read off the software update number that Lynnwood put in your PCM .. or if you have a TSB # that they used, I'd appreciate it.
thanks.
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
16:42:38
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Will do, I'll check when I get home. Should be posted in about 4 hours. Was Terry Moen at Lynnwood Dodge. He's kind of a salesman, (aren't we all), but he's treated me right so I drive the 20 extra miles to see him. If it's not written on the work order, I'll give him a ring first thing tomorrow morning. It seemed to make a huge difference. From 'neck and neck' with my buddies A4, to 'pulling ahead'.
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Todd W
GenIII
9/04/2002
17:59:03
|  RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Whoa!
Yeah, that's not right... your running -way- hot on whichever side you pulled that white plug from... It's also got quite a few more deposits on that side, which doesn't look good to me... Thats odd, because cylinders that run too hot generally -don't- have deposits on the plugs...
I'm going to second the notion of a blown headgasket, or some other damage that is allowing coolant into the cylinder. You need to get that truck into a dealer ASAP, take the old plugs with you. Thats a sick engine right there. :0(
"I think I hit my excitement threshold about ten minutes ago..."
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bowtiecrusher
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
18:27:28
|  RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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after the first time you change the plugs it only gets easier. iv pulled mine 3 times in year half once to change other 2 to get out of house work.
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
20:48:56
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Got the invoice. Didn't see a flash number or anything. i will call tomorrow and ask.
Let you know.
YJ
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maynardh
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2002
21:02:42
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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That bad plug looks like mine when the head gaskets went, 1 at 44000 kms, 1 at 62000 kms. Luckily they fixed both under warranty.
I believe it was 6 hours labor.
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Pistolero
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
00:49:49
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Todd W. is right...the white plug is running too hot. Plugs should be a nice, light tan color, not white or black. That plug on the right is definitely burning something that shouldn't be in the combustion chamber...you can even see that the threads are wet, while the threads on the white plug are dry. Does the truck blow smoke? What color is it if it does? White means coolant in the mixture...blue means oil. How does it idle...rough or smooth? You (or someone) definitely need to figure out what's going on in the cylinder that that dirty plug came out of.
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QUADMAN
GenIII
9/05/2002
10:28:07
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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I took my truck in a month ago and they did the same death flash crap to mine and now its a pig! I know they won't flash it back so what other options do we have?
OPINIONS ARE LIKE....WELL, YOU KNOW THE REST!!
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eallen
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
10:55:27
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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The turck doesn't blow any smoke and runs pretty good except for the pinging. The idle is sometimes rough but I heard of that being common in the 4.7 (I don't think it is abnormally rough) I do loose about 1/2 to 1qt of oil between oil changes (every 3000 miles) but last time I asked the dealer about that, they said it was normal. I don't know if it is related. I have an appt. on Monday so we'll see what they say.
Thanks to all who have replied!!!!!
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
12:10:57
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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Quadman,
You can drive up to Lynnwood, WA and have Terry flash it, or you can buy a custom flash. I think that's all we can do right now.
Sorry bro.
YJ
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Bruce P
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
21:06:23
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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JUST SOME THOUGHTS...
Have you tried a simple bleeddown test or compresson test? This would isolate a head-gasket leak.
ADDITIOONALLY;
Have you considerd that one or more of the injectors may be dirty and not metering the fuel properly?
To test this, you could SWAP the injectors between the 2 cylinders in question and install new plugs in those 2. After some run-time, if the symptoms have moved between cylinders, an injector is DEFINATLY the problem.
Do not forget that the engine computer (ECU) is metering fuel based on the AVERAGE of all 4 cylinders on a bank. (one O2 sensor per bank)Thus, if one injector was partially plugged, the ECU would blindly tell the other 3 injectors to add more fuel until the O2 sensor was satisfied. This might give the plug-readings you are seeing.
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eallen
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
22:38:10
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!! - UPDATE
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I just got back from the dealer. I told them about the horror stories related to the timing fix and the power related problems...
They said that they have done this many times without any complaints...
They also said that I needed a series of PCM updates that were available for pinging.
The good news (sort of) the dealer talked me into letting them flash the PCM... The pinging seems to be gone but only time will tell. (I am running '93 octane gas and hope to go back down to '89 or maybe '87 ??
The bad news (sort of) I have not driven it enough to form an opinion on the loss of power. If I had not read the posts related to power loss I may not have really noticed anything. Having said that and having read these posts it does seem to have some power loss mainly when accelerating 0 - 40 mph. It seems that the throttle (sp?) response is not as it was before the update... This is what I mean... after reaching about 25 mph and the trans shifts, I slowly press on the accelerator and I notice little if any change in rpms until I reach 40 -45 mph, then everything seems ok. Before the update the rpm's would increase with increased pressure on the pedal and the vehicle would increase speed accordingly.
Is this the kind of performanc related problems others are seeing?
Long story short... the perforamance related issues are in the back of my mind right now as it seems the pinging is fixed. (It may have been worth it, but I have only driven it for 1/2 day since I got it back)
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blckdak
GenIII
9/11/2002
00:04:48
| RE: 2001 4.7 Pinging!!!!
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What color team did you deal with at Bellevue Dodge to whomever went there?
Erin
2000 CC 4x4 Sport
Magnaflow Exhaust, Z-Tube, Runnin AMSOIL
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