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AmsoilSponsor
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
11:02:18
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 Subject: Viscosity
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This has been started as a Forum Thread to discuss viscosity.
On different threads, questions and comments have been posted, and questions have been asked regarding viscosity. I thought this would help everyone in the future when "searching" for viscosity threads. Please post your comments here and I will follow up with my own additions. For now, let's begin with this:
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VISCOSITY..in the general term is defined as " a fluids resistance to flow". it's a measure of the internal friction of the fluid or the resistance to the movement of one layer of molecules relative to an adjacent layer.
THE LOWER (SMALLER or FIRST #, as in "10w-_) NUMBER.. is the Cold Cranking measurement, made at low temperatures, using a concentric cylinder viscometer to predict the oils cranking resistance in an engine during cold starting.
The measuring devices, or viscosmeters, most often used are in the form of close-fitting concentric cylinders. The fluid being evaluated is placed between the cylinder walls, the outer cylinder is held stationary and the inner cylinder is rotated. The speed of rotation is measured for a given force to calculate the viscosity, most commonly reported in cp or centipoise units. Also known as Absolute Viscosity.
THE HIGHER (BIGGER or SECOND #, as in "-30") NUMBER...is commonly measured in capilary tubes, in which the time for a fixed volume of fluid to flow through the tube under gravity at operating temp (100c)is measured and reported as cSt or centistokes. This is used most commonly to report the normal operating viscosity of motor oils or the higher number.
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Steven Roark, Amsoil Dealer, Proud Sponsor of DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
11:06:23
|  Viscosity GRADE
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" 0W- " is a viscosity GRADE, not a viscosity MEASUREMENT.
When testing for cold fluidity, the temperature is lowered approximately 5 degrees centigrade between each test.
The Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity is tested at:
-20 C for 10W-
-25 C fpr 5W-
-30 C for 0W-
It is my understanding that the oil has to be labelled at the lowest temperature it meets the specifications.
It may not be long before someone comes out with a " -5W-30 " which would correspond with -35 C.
Steven Roark, Amsoil Dealer, Proud Sponsor of DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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EyeTrip
R/T
8/23/2002
12:36:19
| RE: Viscosity
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Amsoil=Amway
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AmsoilSponsor
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
13:19:44
| RE: Viscosity
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EyeTrip,
Please tell me something I have not heard before.
I have heard that many times from the unintelligent and the uninformed.
This is a FACT: There are a "few" overzealous Independent Amsoil Dealers and I find them to be an embar"ass"ment. Get my drift.
Unfortunately Amsoil has no way to monitor everything that is said and/or posted by Independent Dealers, but they have revoked the "Dealer" priviledge many times in the past.
I for one continue to educate myself and understand as much as there is to know about the lubrication industry (even attending non-Amsoil conferences and seminars). You will never find me over-promoting or bashing another product, unless when the case is necessary such as something that might be harmful to the engine.
Amsoil is not the choice of everyone and if you choose to not use Amsoil that is fine. However, for the benefit of everyone, please refrain from the posting of comments that don't add to the conversation.
Steven Roark
P.S. I attached a "smiley face" so everyone would know that I smile and move on.
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Tommy
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
13:25:54
| RE: Viscosity
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Amsoil is one of the best oils! I have a 1998 California Custom 88 inch American Twin. I live in San Jose, and during the summer temeratures get to the 100 mark. Since the engine is air cooled it will run very hot. I replaced the crappy Harley oil for Amsoil 20w-50. Night and day difference. The motor did not detonate in stop and go traffic, it also had a smoother sound to it. I will never run anything else in this bike, screw all that preach about non-synthetic OIL!
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EyeTrip
R/T
8/23/2002
13:58:37
| RE: Viscosity
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bla bla bla Your not denying that it's amway.
As for you dim witted weak attempt at a sarcastic remark holds about par to your constant badgering on the website of your product, that in your own mind, think that it's the best thing ever invented and nothing on the planet will ever superseded it while rating other products inferior and making people feel stupid for not buying your self exploited product.
I'm getting pretty damn fed up with your advertising methods. It reminds me of how politicians work.
If you were truly interested in educating yourself you should start by working on your advertising skills without pissing people off.
P.S. I'm attaching my middle finger extended in your general direction. Get my drift.
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MountainDak
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
14:01:41
|  RE: Viscosity
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I know Steven and I believe this thread was set up to inform Dodge Enthusiasts as to "General Oil Information" without promoting or discrediting any manufacturers products. Unfortunately, too many threads on www.dodgedakotas.com are becoming bastions of vile and hate (Mobil 1 sux, Ford sux, you suck, etc., etc., etc.), and it looks like EyeTrip is trying "once again" to bring what could be a positive and helpful thread down to "his level" (the sewer).
MountainDak
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AmsoilSponsor
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
14:20:11
| RE: Viscosity
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Right MountainDak,
I tried to be helpful without promoting, and what do I get ... someone throwing pie in my face.
AMSOIL "has never been", "is not", and "never will be" associated with Amway. They happen to be two "very different" companies. Do you think they are similar because they both start with the same two letters "Am-"? Look in the Yellow Pages - Thousands of companies start with the two letters "Am-" or "American".
I hope this satisfies your couriosity EyeTrip,
and perhaps you should consider "Anger Management Therapy".
Let's drop it at this. Visitors to this site deserve better.
Steven Roark
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EyeTrip
R/T
8/23/2002
14:55:43
| RE: Viscosity
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MountainDak, You seem to have missed the whole point of that post. It doesn't surprise me.
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Prospector
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
17:39:56
|  RE: Viscosity
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I agree with everything that AMSOIL Sponsor, Mountain Dak and Tommy has said;
and I don't care if AMSOIL is sold by the Girl Scouts of America I am still going to buy it.
Prospector
p.s.
I think that Eye Trip just needs to find him an 80 year old Sugar Mamma because it is obvious that he is not gettin enough leg.
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Bill Schroff
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
19:05:37
| RE: Viscosity
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With all due respect to Amsoil,they produce great products,but I can understand EyeTrips point about Amsoil or their dealers attacking other companies products.This should be left to the FTC.Not to mention the great lubricant competitors of Amsoil which should not be overlooked.
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Tommy
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
19:18:57
| RE: Viscosity
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eyetrip, If these guys wher pushing any other oil I would join your rant, but Amsoil is one of the best! Red Line is there, same with Royal Purple.
Mobile and Castrol are a second tier synthetic.
Petroleum Oils especially in Turbo applications do not cut the grade. I have seen Mustangs on the Dyno with the addition of Amsoil 5-30 pickup 5 rear-wheel horse over Petroleum base oil. That is the best test "HORSE POWER"! You run a Vortech, you are the perfect candidate for Amsoil. Try it, I bet you like it!
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Tommy
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
19:21:10
| RE: Viscosity
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Ask any mechanic for NASCAR what Oil they run! Every team runs Synthetic, end of Story! I am not here to sell you anuything, just telling it straight.
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EyeTrip
R/T
8/23/2002
20:22:06
| RE: Viscosity
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Tommy your comprehension is lacking...
I have not put down the product in any way, I was merely putting it into a marketing perspective. I wish this site were more about Dakotas, performance and related stories. Not advertising for some Amway like company trying to make their millions in their MLM. You listen to too many stories getting rich using "In your face" tactics.
Amsiol might be a great product but it doesn’t deserve to be rehashed everyday.
P.S. Prospector, Your just a retard...
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AmsoilSponsor
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
20:37:15
| RE: Viscosity
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Last Post on this thread and let's hope it dies on one of the "back pages".
I added this thread (I've only started maybe four), because 80% of the direct emails that I receive weekly are questions about "viscosity". The balance are about specific oils for specific vehicles, product recommendations, general information, and YES, thank you's from satisified Amsoil customers.
Since 80% are questions about viscosity, I added this thread for information purposes for Dodge Dakota Owners, and so that in the future I could refer to it rather than retype everything.
Once again I am reminded ... oil is like a religion. And here on dodgedakotas.com we are basically divided into two groups. Those that really want to learn and buy what is best for their truck (be it Amsoil or something else), and those that just want to see their own words in print. This was by the way a "viscosity" thread and not a "which oil is best" thread.
Since this thread (like too many others)wound up in the gutter ("the sewer"),...
it's simply time to say ... good-night.
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
20:46:39
| RE: Viscosity
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I personally feel that Amsoil is not the best!! There oil did help my tranny shift better but my rearend gears are chattering like a SOB. I just finish writing a letter to A.J. Amatuzio the President of Amsoil, how I'm disatisfied with his product. I even wrote to Amsoil Tech team (2 weeks ago) which kind of brushed me off with there reply. I thank Dr. D, for what help you could provide me (thanks bro).
After I did further research into this chattering rearend, I came across several Dodge Ram owners in the same boat as me. Who are now switching back to original new fluids.
Amsoil probably does make a great product, but everyone makes Amsoil out to be a God sent gift. I agree with Eyetrip even though he comes off alittle harsh, he does have valid points!!!
Anthony
www.geocities.com/dak2nv/
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EyeTrip
R/T
8/23/2002
20:59:01
| RE: Viscosity
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I merely stated that Amsoil is just like Amway, your the one that flamed first. Maybe I should have not made that connection, but you even state that you want it to be informative. And it's sill so obvious that your not getting the point.
I apologize to all that have not posted on this thread if I have offended. That wasn't my intent.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
21:18:05
| RE: Viscosity
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Well it is obvious that anyone with a handle like AmsoilSponsor is going to have some bias just as all of us do. I think he has been pretty good bringing information to the board as it relates to lubrication issues. All of his information has been accurate and helpful. Sure he does a little marketing of his product and at first I thought it was a little over the top myself. He has towned it down since day one and contributes frequently. He also contributes to this site's bottom line. I am sure you have seen the banner.Everything he has said has been truthful and has benifitted everyone. I am probably going to become a prefered customer soon and a dealer later on. This thread he started here tonight is going to educate alot of shade tree gear heads!! Most people would never look this information up. Educateing all of us makes us better oil shoppers and alot of us will be better able to judge if the claims made by various oil companys are truthful or not. Eye Trip you are the only person here being realy nasty and hateful! You see you are supposed to disagree with a point made in the origanal post not attack the poster.
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Vern
Dodge Dakota
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11/02/2003
11:37:27
| RE: Viscosity
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Winter is here (almost). I live in MN and it gets darn cold here. I just wanted to let you guys know that I run 0w30 year round.
As a former senior mechanic and part owner of a Dodge dealership, I am here to say, do not let the 0w part scare you into thinking it can't be run in the heat. It's the viscosity at operating temperature (100C) which you should be more concerned with, and in the case Amsoil 0w30, it is a thicker 30wt oils than most 10w30s out there. This oil has shown to retain its viscosity well too. It also has excellent HTHS numbers, making it a very good candidate for the high stress of summer driving.
The beauty of a 0w oil is that when the temps get colder out, they can keep themselves from being too thick. Even if you don't see temps much lower than the freezing point, a 0w oil will still benefit you, as it will flow better than a 5w or 10w at these colder temps. And for anyone who is going to see temps colder than 0F, you'll definitely benefit from having the quick flow of the 0w.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/21/2003
11:55:02
| Amsoil - Viscosity Advice - American Synthetic Oil
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Additional information regarding "VISCOSITY"
All metal engine parts need to be separated from each other while moving in order to prevent friction and wear on the parts. This in done in modern production engines using a thin film of oil (usually less than 1/10,000 of an inch thick). Oil’s viscosity, in part, determines how thick a film the oil will form between moving parts, and how much friction there will be between those parts when separated by the oil.
Higher viscosity means thicker oil films and more friction within the oil. Obviously, one wants a viscosity high enough to prevent parts from grinding against each other, but no higher than that, because any more results in excessive friction within the oil, leading to excess heat and power loss. The ideal oil would provide the minimum required viscosity under all conditions.
Unfortunately, an oil’s viscosity diminishes with increasing temperature, necessitating the use of an oil which will have the minimum required viscosity at the highest expected temperature, and greater than optimal viscosity at lower temperatures.
Note: Since Winter is upon us, ... I will repeat the following (but in different words) ... the first number, preceding the ‘w’ (for Winter), is an oil’s viscosity grade, is an indication of low-temperature performance -- the lower the better. The lower winter viscosity grades will be more valuable in colder climates. 10w- generally flows and pumps fine at four degrees below zero on the Fahrenheit scale, and each grade below that buys you another nine degrees. Synthetic oil is vastly superior to conventional oil in its low-temperature pumpability, high-temperature stability, long-drain capability, and high lubricity (low friction).
The second number represents the oil’s high-temperature viscosity, but higher is not always better! One wants to choose the minimum viscosity that results in an oil film thick enough to prevent wear at the temperatures one expects to encounter. Only the engineers that designed the engine know what viscosity is required to provide adequate film thickness without unnecessary friction, so you should certainly try to remain within manufacturers guidelines. For what it’s worth, I trust the engineers.
It is almost certain that higher viscosity oils, such as Xw-40 and Xw-50, are complete wastes of energy, placing undue strain on your engine, and raising operating temperatures for no real benefit.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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HelpfulDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/30/2004
12:47:32
| RE: Viscosity
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Vern and Steve. If I might add:
The SAE classification indicates the oil viscosity and is referenced by a number that appears in the center of the donut shaped logo. The higher the number, the thicker the oil. Thick oil has a high resistance to flow, which means a high viscosity. Oil classified with a “W,” like 5W or 10W for example, indicate the viscosity rating applies at subfreezing temperatures and are generally used for winter conditions. A number rating without the “W” means that the viscosity rating applies at 212°F.
The problem with single grade oil is that the W oils tend to thin out too much in warmer weather and the non-W numbers tend to thicken too much in colder weather. Single grade oils are generally meant for one temperature only and require an oil change with each change of season. That is why most vehicles today call for a multi-grade oil like 5W-30 or 10W-40. These oils have suitable flow properties at both ends of the temperature spectrum, no matter what the season.
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