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General Dakota Board
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dodgeee-oO
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
18:51:44
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 Subject: Wax/Polish
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2 months or so i used meguiars 3 step cleaner, polish and gold class wax. I want to do another couple coats of polish, but i'm not sure if i'd have to start the 3 step process again. Do i have to remove the wax before i polish? Thanks for your help!
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Blakdak01
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2002
18:59:14
| RE: Wax/Polish
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no you dont. polish makes the paint shinier and then you apply the wax over it to seal it. correct me if im wrong
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handi2
GenIII
8/11/2002
22:36:24
| RE: Wax/Polish
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You can apply the polish as many times as you wish, layering the polish. The more times the better and deeper the shine. The wax is just for protection.
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2002 Quad Cab SLT Plus 4.7 Every Available Option
Access Tonnoue Cover/Bedrug/360 Air Intakez/Jet Stage 2
180 Robertshaw/Roadmaster Active Suspension
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2002
11:01:02
| RE: Wax/Polish
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Well, sounds great guys.
Guess I'm just lazy.
I get my 01 SLT 2tone paint QC washed at a local drive thru, the kind with the soft mops that slide on the truck. Of course they vacuum, clean the dash, and clean the glass, and do the wheels too, all for $5.50 (US).
Then about every 6-9 months, I wax it once with Carnuba Wax, that has no fine abrasives in it.
It beads water always, and I get many comments on my 'detailing' of my truck and they want to know who does it.
I'm just lazy.
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Dakaty
GenIII
8/12/2002
11:06:18
| RE: Wax/Polish
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Texas Tod
What a bargain. In the Houston area, the minimum full service car wash is $12. If you want your wheels done, air freshner, extra waxes, etc, its $20.
..and they don't do it as good as a hand wash in the driveway.
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Kota62
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2002
13:21:55
| RE: Wax/Polish
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In Fayetteville NC, the TLC charges 18 bucks for the full service, 5 more for wheels, 5 more for armor-all
Gary
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dodgeee-O
Dodge Dakota
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8/22/2002
13:41:57
| RE: Wax/Polish
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So if i don't wax over the polish will it eventually wash off? And if the paint is sealed by the wax how well would putting another coat of polish over the wax stick? I don't wanna waste time/product if it's not gonna stay on long. Thanks for your help!
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n9m
Dodge Dakota
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8/22/2002
14:14:54
| RE: Wax/Polish
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The way I understand polish is that it only does it's job under the wax. Only use polish on the paint or going for a second coat of polish. Wax should be the final, outside layer.
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dodgeee-O
Dodge Dakota
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8/22/2002
15:16:11
| RE: Wax/Polish
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Thats what I thought but the above posts were confusing. I'm gonna start the three steps over but go with 3 coats of polish then wax! Thanks n9m.
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NOSSTEVE
Dodge Dakota
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8/22/2002
17:49:35
| RE: Wax/Polish
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wanted to tell what i have experienced.i have been detailing cars for show and for other people for some time.
1.start out with a cleaner type wax or polish-preferable meguiers.got to get all the contaminates out.
2.polish
3.wax
i like zymol and the wax shop glaze.wax shop can be used in colder temps.
watch the car washes,(scratches)and because the soaps used may strip your wax.it is best to wash your own with a car wash soap that will not strip your wax!
also a quick way to see if you need waxing is when you wash,if the mit does not glide across the surface of the car easily,it s time.the more the car is in the sun or driven in the rain shortens the life of your wax job.my truck and car stays in the garage when not driven and i wax them once a month.but thats me.the more you keep wax on it the easier it is to wash,getting bugs and road grime off ,etc.hope this helps....
steve
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dan
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
13:04:58
| RE: Wax/Polish
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With polymer polishes, you don't need wax. That is in place of conventional wax. You layer the polish and that also doubles as your "protectant". Water should bead like crazy on that too. Should also feel very smooth and friction free.
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MikeS
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
14:31:52
| RE: Wax/Polish
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what is the preferred method of applying the cleaner, polish and wax? I have a brand new buffing wheel that I'm dying to try out.
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handi2
GenIII
8/23/2002
21:58:18
| RE: Wax/Polish
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Do not use a buffing wheel unles you are trained with such buffers. The random orbital polishers like Porter Cable are excellent to use and will not harm the finish.
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2002 Quad Cab SLT Plus 4.7 Every Available Option
Access Tonnoue Cover/Bedrug/360 Air Intakez/Jet Stage 2
180 Robertshaw/Roadmaster Active Suspension
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Michael
Dodge Dakota
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8/23/2002
22:29:09
|  RE: Wax/Polish
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FYI You cannot layer polish it only remains on the surface while you are rubbing by hand or using an orbital polisher. Polish is used to remove fine imperfections in the paint and is cleared away when you buff it out. By polishing over and over again you only improving on the first polishing by clearing up what you may have missed the first time. Giving the appearance that you are layering it, but you are not.
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handi2
GenIII
8/23/2002
22:43:45
| RE: Wax/Polish
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Polishing and Waxing Your Car
Polishing
Many cars, especially newer ones or those well maintained, begin their exterior detailing process here. They only need a minor abrasive polish and a coat of wax to restore their luster. If the vehicle is new from the factory, or has just been repaired in a body shop, there may be orange peel present, which must be color sanded out to achieve a true deep gloss.
If you have just finished deep cleaning. or finessing defects, then you'll certainly need to polish the paint as the next step. After the gloss has been restored, it will need to be protected with wax.
The terms polishing and waxing refer to two entirely separate functions which are not interchangeable. The classic and correct definition of polishing refers to the creation of high gloss. Polishing diamonds, as an example, is done to achieve added brilliance -- without any thought of adding protection. Waxing, on the other hand, is part of the larger category of "protection" which involves the application of a barrier coat of waxes, polymers, resins and silicones on top of paint finishes to protect them from the elements.
A car that has just been painted portrays deep, clear reflections and vibrant high gloss before it is ever polished or waxed. The goal, therefore, is to keep your car's paint finish as close as possible to the original condition -- completely free of oxidation, stains, blemishes, bonded contaminants, and all other surface imperfections.
What It Does
In short, polishing will remove swirl marks, light scratches and minor clear coat surface imperfections. It is a necessary step for (1) those with dark-colored cars whose desire is to have optimum gloss and depth of color; (2) those who apply products to their car at least once a month and want to avoid having a wax build-up; and, (3) those who want to improve the appearance of a freshly re-painted finish without fear of inhibiting the curing process during the first 30 days.
All paint finishes, when neglected, will degrade and oxidize over time...caused primarily by UV penetration. While today's clear coat paint finishes include UV inhibitors, the process still continues -- albeit much more slowly than in past years. Without question, regular applications of a pure polish is the absolute best way to prevent oxidation. Much like a rich body lotion nourishes your skin, a pure polish nourishes the paint, keeping it healthy and vibrant. In other words, a pure polish can keep your paint finish as healthy as it was when it was first painted -- before it ever had a chance to dry out and oxidize. If the paint finish on your car is already clean and smooth as glass, regular applications of a pure polish will keep your car looking like new forever, because the oxidation process will never have a chance to begin.
In addition to keeping a paint healthy and vibrant, regular applications of a polish will restore and maintain clear reflection -- which translates into high gloss.
Swirl Marks -- Fine hairline scratches, often referred to as swirl marks, can destroy the appearance of paint that is otherwise healthy and vibrant. Each fine line impression refracts the light off in different directions, causing the reflection to be hazy and distorted under bright light. A pure polish has the ability to remove minute surface imperfections, thereby restoring clearness of reflection and high gloss. The darker the color of the paint, the more pronounced these surface imperfections become. This is why a black car is so difficult to keep looking good when you are using the wrong products. And clear coat finishes add to the problem because they are abrasion sensitive (they scratch very easily) and they actually magnify the appearance of every fine scratch. The good news is that it is easy to keep even a black car liking perfect when you use the right products. Keep in mind that the ability of a pure polish to remove a fine scratch depends entirely on the depth of its impression into the paint. If it is more than minute, a cleaner and perhaps even a rotary buffer might be required. The key is to always use the least abrasive product possible to solve the problem -- and avoid rubbing compounds if at all possible. After the use of a clear coat safe cleaner, a pure polish will restore clarity and high gloss.
Orbital Polisher (We prefer the Porter Cable or DeWalt Orbital Polisher - does remove moderate oxidation and scratches)
The safest tool for polishing and waxing, for that matter, is an oscillating "orbital" polisher or a dual-action polisher. It is nearly impossible to burn paint with these types of machines because their rapid but limited movement does not generate any heat or abrasion. For this same reason, however, they are ineffective for correcting paint problems like stains, blemishes, oxidation and bonded contaminants. They are best suited for applying and removing polish and wax and the results they product are on a par with a hand application. The big advantage they offer is increased speed with reduced effort without creating swirl marks, and that they apply the product in a more uniform manner.
The orbital polisher has a variety of pads available, ranging from terrycloth, foam and wool pads. Polishes and waxes are best applied with the terrycloth pad. For the final polishing of the wax coat and for swirl mark removal, special polyfoam pads are available.
Waxing
A car wax is best described by characterizing its properties and uses. This is somewhat of an industry term, in that car waxes don't always, but most times do, contain wax. Just like tin foil which does not contain tin and dish soap which does not contain soap, the technology has changed but their terminology has lagged behind. Car waxes are "finish products." Their purpose is to add durability to the finish, usually with emulsified silicone fluids and waxes, either in combination or individually.
Composition
Compounds, polishes, waxes and sealants are most commonly comprised of very tiny droplets (emulsion) of solvents, abrasives and active ingredients held in suspension in a water solution by emulsifiers. (Emulsifiers and emulsions can seem like mysterious concepts but actually are very common. Milk is an emulsion of milk fats and solids held in suspension by an emulsifier called casein.) A wax is different from the other products because it has less abrasive (powder) and the powder is very soft. Also the active ingredients are comprised of waxes, ordinary silicone fluids and/or polymers, in varying degrees and proportions. The combination of these light powders and active ingredients give the wax its depth, shine and moderate durability.
Benefits of Waxing
Protection is provided by creating an ablative (wears away slowly) surface between the expensive paint and the harsh environment. There are three main ways that this protection is provided:
Environmental fallout or acid rain and its associated particles are extremely corrosive to the paint surface. Waxes and silicones are formulated to repel and resist these contaminants.
Dirt and dust create an abrasive material on the paint surface that scratches the paint when touched. The damage caused by this stress is greatly reduced by improving the "mar and slip resistance" of the paint surface.
Oxygen in the atmosphere has an oxidizing effect on paint that is reduced by creating a barrier over the paint.
Durability
The best waxes tested last no more than two months or between 6 to 8 hand washes with a car wash soap, as opposed to a dish soap which is much too harsh. As stated before, waxes and polishes are designed to create an ablative surface. That is, they are supposed to wear away before the paint does but be less expensive and easier to apply than more paint.
Types of Waxes
Waxes form a broad category of organic (contains carbon) materials that don't fall into any one chemical family but are generally classed as lipids (for lack of a better place to put them). A material is called a wax if it:
is solid at room temperature
melts at a fairly low point (called thermoplastic)
does not fall into the category of polymer.
The properties of waxes cover a large span of specifications but the "specs" that are important to automobile waxes are hardness, melting point, water repellency and resistance to breakdown by environmental factors.
There are many waxes available that fit the specs for a good automobile wax. They include vegetable waxes (carnauba), animal waxes (bees wax), mineral petroleum waxes (paraffin and microcrystaline), mineral fossil waxes (montan) and )despite the apparent contradiction) synthetic waxes (short chain ethylenic polymers).
The chemical formulas for these waxes are quite complex and diverse and not as important as the properties of the various grades.
There is no specific advantage of one wax over another (i.e. microcrystaline wax is not intrinsically better than carnauba) because the waxes that are chosen for car waxes are all chosen for their properties that make them good for car waxes. A good wax for cars is fairly hard, melts at a reasonable temperature (not too far from the boiling point of water), has good water repellency and will be darn tenacious stuff when you spread it out on a car. In fact many wax types can be blended together to further modify the properties of the finished product, gloss depth, durability.
One-Step Products
While you can never accomplish the same results with a one-step product that can be achieved by using three different products to clean, polish and protect, most people prefer a combination cleaner/wax product. The attraction, of course, is that they are simpler and easier to use. When doing so, however, keep in mind that a one-step product that will remove moderate to heavy contamination and oxidation must, by necessity, be abrasive and therefore unable to create brilliant high gloss. Conversely, a one-step cleaner/wax that is capable of creating brilliant high gloss will be limited in its capacity to remove contaminants and oxidation. Applying a coat of protection to your car will slow down the oxidation process and make it more difficult for contaminants to bond to or etch into the finish. Applying a second or third coat of just wax (without cleaners or polish, which would remove the first coat), will provide even more protection and is something to consider each year before the harsh winter weather begins -- particularly for the hood and below the beltline on the sides. After the third coat, however, there is no residual value.
http://photos.yahoo.com/handi254310
2002 Quad Cab SLT Plus 4.7 Every Available Option
Access Tonnoue Cover/Bedrug/360 Air Intakez/Jet Stage 2
180 Robertshaw/Roadmaster Active Suspension
Street Scene Grill Inserts
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SPORTDAKOTA
Dodge Dakota
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8/24/2002
00:23:40
| RE: Wax/Polish RECOMMENDATIONS
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I hvae been detailing cars since I was young teen some 20yrs ago (29 now) I have tried all different methods and brands of waxes and what I have found is that certain brands make certain products better then others. for example I think MOTHERS makes a better wax then Meguiers and Meguiers makes a better polish. both are decent more of a personal pref. my truck remains outside all most all year long I live in south FLA so I deal with the extreme heat,sun and rain. I usually wash once a week or every 2 weeks depending on weather AND wax and polish approx every 4mos. the following is the process and brands I use that have worked awesome for me.
1) wash very well using plenty of water rise as much dirt off as possible and rinse sponge as offten as needed.WHILE WERE TALKING SPONGES, make sure u use a 100% cotton sham or cellose sponge DONOT USE POLYESTER SYNTH SPONGES THEY WILL SCRATCH! (any car wash will some are more sudsy then others and thicker liquid) I use Mothers car wash or Meguiers which ever is cheaper or an alt brand don't waste too much money in this area!
2)NEXT, dry the truck using only 100% cotton terry cloth towels. trim off any designs or edgeing it will scratch you paint.
3) to inspect your paint take a piece of suran wrap lightly cover your had a slide it across the paint in different areas. take notice if you feel contaminats or paint feels gritty.
4)To achieve that smooth as glass finish with the least amount of effort and negative effects on your paint USE A CLAY BAR... Mothers makes a kit,Clay MAGIC,and MAguiers etc. ( doesnot matter buy by price usually about $15.00. important note regular clay will not work so don't borrow you kids playdo! or go to the craft shop. thers is difference in they way it is manufactured. regular clay will just smear. The clay bar will easly remove all the condaminates like a eraser on a pencil. you must use a liquid spary usually included ( which is generally a quick detailer, show and shine spray) you will be amazed how easy this is compared to spending hours with a buffer or cleaners.( however if you need to remove scraches or other blimishes thats another story the clay bar will not do that and you must buff to remove those. after your done take that a new piece of suran wrap and prove the results to yourself. IF YOUR DROP THE CLAY BAR ITS OVER TOSS IT AWAY. NOT WORTH GRIDING DIRT IN YOUR PAINT SO BE CAREFUL LAY A CLOTH ON FLOOR JUST IN CASE UNDER AREA YOUR WORKING
3)POLISH, I prefer maguires. anyone of thier polishes are fine. don't get caught up with that professional b s.one is not infearear to the other. now my truck is white so the effects of a deep gloss are harder to see vs if you own a dark color such as black.IF you do own a dark color you and polish are going to be great friends cause your going to need it to hind all those surface scratches. APPLY SAME AS WAX
4) NEXT its wax time, I USE ONLY WAXE CONTAINING 100% CARNUBA I feel these offer the best protection and personally RECOMMEND MOTHERS CALF GOLD PASTE cleaner/wax or no cleaner. depends on how bad your paint was . I use both just depends. YES u can buy the liquid version but I don't think it goes as far and is harder to control. also keep in mind carnuba is naturally in a harden state and must manufactured to acheive a liquid. use a terry cloth again to apply the wax nad remove. leave sponge applicators in the box and use them to apply protectant or other products.
5)In between washing and waxing I use MEGUIRES OR mothers quick detail or show time sprays these keep your finish looking new and clean.
6) other recommendations, all outside black trim or plastic use Mothers back to black or meguires version( can't remember name) either are great. avoid using armor all or other protectant they don't last as long and will give you that white haze look. if you allready have the hazing effect your bumper looks white or door handles clean them well with a mutipurpose cleaner. then apply protectant. clean those side walls of your tires with whisleys white wall cleaner you will be amazed of the crap you will get off becareful to avoid getting on your rims this stuff is very harsh! and will pit your rims.
7) wheel cleaners if you can clean them with a sponge do it avoid using anything harsher then you have to. you can use dishliquid in this area to remove the brake dust and grime but apply a coat of wax every couple washed not a critical as your paint but they are easier to clean waxed and will look better longer.
any other questions just ask!
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Brad
Dodge Dakota
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8/24/2002
12:17:42
| RE: Wax/Polish
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Just got finished with washing and waxing my white 02 slt+ and looks great. This is the first time I have ever waxed a car and it turned out great! I used all Meguire's products. First their cleaner then polish and finally wax. Like I said looks great and was not hard at all. Thanks for all the advice.
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