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joel
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2002
13:08:00
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 Subject: RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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92dakotahd, yes I read the post. You also proved my point about the ABS being at fault.
I'm going to guess its the brake compound causing the trouble. Choosing the right compound is a science.
Joel
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John S.
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2002
16:23:57
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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are u guys aware that tests have shown you can stop quicker if you DONT have ABS brakes?? Basically I dont see how you have any case if the ABS brakes didnt work as expected.
ABS is simply there to help you remain in control of steering functions.
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scott
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2002
16:39:30
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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Exactly where are these "tests" your talking about at?
I`d like to read them.
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joel
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2002
17:48:18
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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From the extreem side of braking, take a look at race cars. In Ross Bentley's book "Speed Secrets", he showed test results from ABS and found he was a few tenths (this is allot) quicker per lap without ABS on a dry track but was qucker with ABS in the rain.
This is of course a driver who can threshold brake, allot of street drivers can't do that.
Also take the Viper into account, ABS was not an option till 03.
Joel
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bigredtomato
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2002
00:02:12
|  RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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I have a 2002 QC Sport, 4.7, Auto. The front bumper is very weak when hit on an angle. Two weeks ago I ran into an elderly couple who panicked stopped. I rolled into them (no brake problem) not seeing they'd stopped at about 5 MPH. I hit them on the front right of the bumper at an angle. My ladder frame went through my plastic bumper and through his Tauras wagon bumper. It pushed my bumper into my wheel so I had to bend it back. Total cost $800 for new bumper and metal behind it - no body or grille damage. Repair guy said I hit in worst way (at an angle) and metal behind bumper just bent - straight on no problem. By the way the truck only had 800 miles on it.
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scott
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2002
09:23:15
|  RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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Come on people, some of you like to compare apples to oranges! You can`t compare the results of ABS on trucks ,in realworld driving conditions, to race cars with 14in wide slicks on a dry sticky track.
I`ve seen , and read, on Motortrend, Car and Driver ,etc...where they have compared the exact same veh. (with the exception of one veh. having ABS and the other not), with the same conditions, and the one with ABS has always performed better.
BTW I`m not a big fan of it myself , kind of like airbags and DRLs, but they do have some good to offer most of the consumers.
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joel
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2002
11:08:49
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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Explain why you can't compare them scott. Is it because of something you read in a magazine with halve ass drivers?
Joel
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tim
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2002
16:34:25
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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if u need a new hood i have a black one. email me if interested tdwenzel@execpc.com
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scott
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2002
17:14:22
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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joel,
I guess if you think the people that test for the big magazines are half-ass drivers , thats your opinion.
Not everyone is a perfect driver and not all driving conditions are perfect either...there lies the reason for ABS.
Do you think they just make up #s when testing?
These are car guys at heart , and if they found out that a non ABS equipped veh. performed better , they would be the first to point it out.
Believe what you want joel, it`s a free country.
Scott
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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2002
17:53:51
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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If you think a DAK will stop better WITHOUT ABS, I dare you to remove the ABS fuse and then go take a ride... Make sure you dont tailgate any one... Its SCARY !
R
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John S.
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2002
21:05:39
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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you must not realize ABS only is active when the wheels are LOCKED up and in a skid. Yes control with ABS is much better than without. If I could show the article I read regarding an ABS vehical taking longer to stop then a non-abs vehical I would- but again I cannot.
If you pull the ABS fuse you will lose the ABS feature when you lock your wheels up and go into a skid.
Otherwise you will NOT notice a difference.
ABS is to enhance control in a skid- not make the vehical stop any sooner.
If you understand the operation of ABS systems you would realize this.
-John
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scott
Dodge Dakota
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7/31/2002
06:54:41
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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ABS is there to PREVENT your tires from skidding, thus stopping your vehicle sooner.
I understand it completely.
The human brain cannot function as fast as the computer that controls the ABS, so there`s no way if you were to go into a skid that (with out it) you could react as fast as it can.
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John S.
Dodge Dakota
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7/31/2002
10:34:20
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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Preventing the tires from skiding is the function-however reducing distance to stop is not the originally intent of the design. Without the wheels continually locked in a skid you can steer away from a potential threat- this is the purpose of ABS- to help you remain in control of your car/truck.
-John
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joe
Dodge Dakota
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10/01/2002
18:08:27
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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My abs brakes come on all day long making that ever famous noise. yes even on hot dry days. it sure doesnt seem to stop better. control is better i think, but stopping isnt, i seem to keep going. One question why would dodge build a viper with lame brakes. I thought that cross drilled and slotted rotors would be better than regular ones? For 80k you would think they would be better. ????
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/01/2002
19:13:18
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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You also have the plastic bumper. The slt's come with metal or steel. I took a stop sign out going bout 25, and I got a dent bout 4-5 mm deep. The plastic just broke and took more of ur hood out then if you had metal or steel. Sorry bro.
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dragrdan
Dodge Dakota
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10/01/2002
23:55:30
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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ABS brakes are NOT designed to make you stop quicker!!!! equal vehicles one with abs, one without the non-abs vehicle will stop quicker and in a shorter distance.
ABS is there to help you keep control of the vehicle in a panic stop situation. Take a non abs vehicle on a slippery road, from about 35 mph JAM on the brakes and turn the steering wheel, no control. do the same with an abs vehicle and you have a lot better control.
With or without ABS, it all boils down to driving safely for the conditions.
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dragrdan
Dodge Dakota
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10/02/2002
00:04:31
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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joe, you have a problem with your abs if they activate at all stops. they should only activate at panic stops or low traction conditions.
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John S.
Dodge Dakota
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10/02/2002
08:00:02
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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Thank you dragrdan for supporting my point, it seems no one understands ABS is for control, not stopping quicker. IF you remove the ABS fuse you will simply stop like a vehicle with no ABS- big deal.
-John
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Exocet
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2002
22:57:26
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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OK. Time for Physics 101. When a tire skids, the coefficient of friction decreases. It is simple physical fact. As a result, stopping distances increase when the tires skid. Minimum stopping distances are achieved when enough braking force is applied such that the tires are just short of skidding. Now, an experienced driver can modulate brake pressure and do this. In a panic situation, your average driver cannot. ABS attempts to minimize the amount of tire skidding. With ABS, the average driver will stop in a shorter distance than by "locking" the brakes. An experienced driver may still be able to stop shorter without ABS than with ABS, depending on the situation. The only exceptions are stopping in soft snow or sand. Here, ABS can increase the stopping distances. This is due to the "plow" effect of skidding tires - the snow or sand piles up in front of the tire, increasing the force against the vehicle. So, for the vast majority of people, ABS will provide shorter stopping distances, in addition to providing greater steering control.
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1Flamed92Dak
GenII
10/05/2002
01:04:55
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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Message:
What i feel is that ABS is big saver on all counts of braking as for most drivers when they feel the brake pedal pulsate they then release pressure which in turn increases their braking distances. I been to numerous Driving Schools i.e Bob Bondurant and Skip Barber and Richard Petty school and i learned that yes there is difference in braking points but you must be accustomed to each vehicle that you are driving. Say you take 2 Dakotas I guaranty that one will stop completely different then the other. This is my two cents worth.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2002
09:54:32
| RE: Crash! 5-10 mph Impact photos
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John S, You are correct that a well trained driver can threshhold brake at the limit and out stop ABS. Car magazines have said this for years as well and I have proven it a number of times to people. The problem is that the drive has to maintain a really high skill level to pull this off and must realy know the car or truck very well. It must also be understood that consistency is on the side of ABS. It is also easier to manuver the vechile while brakeing with ABS. In threshold brakeing you must steer while you are not breaking at all or have back pedaled some. You can not steer at the threshhold. My concerns with ABS systems are with the extremely high cost to repair the system. Brake Pressure Modulation valves, Pump/Motor, Module...... are not cheap.
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