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Michigan Mike
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2002
19:17:03
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 Subject: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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2000 QC 4WD 4.7
50,000 miles
Okay, I've read no shortage of posts here about the shoddy quality of Dakota brake disks....how they last only about 12,000-15,000 miles or so before warping....
SO - when my truck started shaking under hard braking (hey, that rhymes...), I assumed it was the front disks. Swap, swap! New Bosch Pads, to boot. Away I drove, ready for smooth-stopping contentment.
BUT NO! It shakes just the same. Are the rear drums just as prone to crappy quality as the front disks are supposed to be???
Or am I missing something obvious here?!?!? The suspension seems tight, the tires have only 10,000 miles on them and look new.....
Getting ready, reluctantly, to do the drums next.
Yargh. A bit more pricey than disks are, for sure.
Thanks for anyone's .02 on this one!
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CW
GenIII
7/25/2002
21:05:40
|  RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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It is the rotors themselves it has nothing to do with the pads.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2002
11:46:04
|  RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Message:
I'm not sure what's goin' on with my 2K QC 4x4 w/31's on 15x8" wheels. The brake pads still have a ton of meat left on them. Like almost new. I have 34K on the truck and it has been emminating a small grinding sound when slowing. I thought it to be the diffs at first, but I had those serviced and still making noise. Are these pads made from titanium? The truck seems to stop fine with mild intermittent pulsating. I'm thinking of swapping out the rotors and pads. Anyone have similar symptoms? Anyone have an a$$load of pad left after 30,000 miles?
Thanks,
YJ
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2002
22:34:30
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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ABS maybe?
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Bill
GenIII
7/27/2002
08:36:34
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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I just got my brakes worked on. I had a shaking when I braked, but it wasn't a shaking in the steering wheel, it was a shaking of the entire truck. So I took it to a local brake shop (already been to the dealer and they told me nothing was wrong and that they wouldn't pay to have it fixed since brakes are only under warranty for 12,000 miles, my truck is a 2001 CC 3.9 4x4 with 24,000 miles on it). The brake place turned the front rotors and turned the rear drums (i didn't know drums could be turned) but that did the trick for me. 70 bucks and I can stop now without shaking. We'll see how long it lasts. The next time it will be new rotors and I will look at doing a disc brake conversion on the rears. Good luck.
Bill
Bill's Truck Page
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2002
12:53:17
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Check the tire balance, and have the run out in the tires checked as well. A tire can be perfectly balanced but still have a runout problem which will cause shaking on the vehicle. I havn't heard of too many drums warping, but it is possible. Take them in and have them turned(cheaper than replacing) and go from there.
YJ, on the grinding noise, did you check the inside pads as well, or just the outside pads?? Usually the inside ones will go first and the outside ones will still look good. Happened on my GF's car. Her outside pads still had about 1/4 to 1/2 pad left, but the inside ones were down to the riviets and put grooves in her rotors.
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routesixtysixer
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2002
12:10:50
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Message:
Yes, drums can warp. But not necessarily because they are poor quality. Usually caused by some idiot that doesn't know how to properly tighten lugs. Many years ago, my wife took her t-bird to the Goodyear place to fix a low rear tire. By the time she got home (about 10 miles), she said the car was acting very strange under braking, with a pulling and shaking. I checked the left rear (the one worked on) and there were two lugs only hand tight (next to each other) two lugs properly tightened and one lug tightened to about 200 ft/lb (twice the spec's 100 ft/lb). This distorted the drum badly, so the rear shoes were making contact unevenly. Now of course, this is an extreme case, but the same thing happens when morons don't use proper lug tightening techniques. I believe this is the root cause of 90% of the the abundant "rotor warping" problems out there. Rotors are not as heavy as they used to be, so they are much more sensitive to proper tightening. I have NEVER had a rotor warp problem in 25 years of ownership and more miles than I can count. BUT, I have always rotated my own tires and double-checked the lugs after having new tires mounted.
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joel
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2002
12:42:24
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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This is a common problem not with just dodge but most domestics. Assuming the wheel was installed right, I think it has to do with the metal used in the rotors.
The high end rotors are made with much better metal and don't warp as fast. You can also use cryrogenics (sp) to treat stock ones making them last longer w/out warping.
Joel
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routesixtysixer
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2002
12:50:49
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Not just domestics... plenty of Toyotas, Nissans, Mazdas and Acuras with rotor warp problems, too. Actually, the rotors aren't really "warping" but wearing unevenly, causing variation in thickness and the "pulsating" feedback through the brake pedal.
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Michigan Mike
Dodge Dakota
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7/29/2002
00:33:06
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Message:
hey, just to clarify....my first post might not have
been as clear as it could have been -
when I put on the new brake pads, I swapped
the rotors for new ones, too. It wasn't just a
'brake pad swap' as I suppose one might
have thought after reading my first description.
So the whole front brake area is re-done. Still
the shakes....that was my initial problem....
Tire runout? If it turns out that this problem
exists, what do you do? Just replace 'em? Or
can they be re-mounted to cure that? I've never
heard of this problem before.....just trying to
understand better!
My brakes are definitely still driving me nuts!!!!
Between that and the typical-for-the-4.7 V8 idle
stumbling, I'm getting a bit peeved with the
thing....
grrrrr. I still love the truck, though.
thanks everyone!!!
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FredDCQ
Dodge Dakota
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7/29/2002
17:10:41
|  RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Message:
Well since you alrady replaced the front end parts, there is only few more causes to the problem. 00 Dakotas come (at least mine)with rear ABS only and the mechanism is inside the differential so you won't see it from the outside. The only way to know is because the solenoids are next to the master cylinder. Anyway going back to the subject. under light braking, ABS is inactive but under havy braking, they activate and can cause vibration pretty similar to that of a warp rotor or disk.Also worn tie rod ends can have the same vibration when braking.
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Michael
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/29/2002
22:06:40
| RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Message:
First off, I had similar problems with my
brakes also total redo for the front, but
, when I'd stop the whole truck shakes.
Go to the dealer they say the front rotors
were warped, and then I explained that I had
just replaced them. The dealer said they don't
make like they used to. Until I inform them
that I had purchased them through their parts
department. Needless to say their story changed.
The dealer then went on to tell me the rear
drums were egg shaped, and that was causing the
vibration. But, the rear brakes were not under
warranty and they could put on new drums and
backing plates for about $800.00.
So I went on the net and ordered the
stainless steel brakes rear disc brake conversion kit for $749.00 shipped with a
free slotted rotor upgrade.
The rear disc conversion is excellent, dramaticaly reduced my stopping distance. And
the kit feels about 90lbs or more lighter than
the drums. Oh the vibration has stopped also,
when I removed the drums it looked like
the backing plate was grinding into the
drum. I bought the truck used so I don't
know if it was mechanical defect,or a prior
accident.
PS. The ABS system is not in the differential
the pumps are next to the distribution block
which is next to the master cylinder.
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Tim
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2002
07:38:45
|  RE: First the disks....now the drums?!?!?
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Message:
I've got the same problem on my 2000. It's been getting worse for the past year - to the point that I can't ignore anymore. It vibrates the entire truck, but only when braking - if I brake harder the vibration is worse. Seems worse when coming down from 40-30mph as well. From searching the forums there seems to be problems with warping of both the front rotors and rear drums - but mostly the rear drums. I'm waiting for bonus checks at work and then I'm taking mine to the brake shop, I'll post the results.
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