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Dan Keller
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
18:20:05
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 Subject: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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I am at my wits end and will be selling my truck soon. I have a fully loaded '01 Patriot Blue 4.7 ClubCab 4x4 which I actually rather like it aesthetically. However its problems are with not only it's f'kt up american standards by cutting corners/costs (hence lousy paintwork), but the stupid intervals of service that it requires are mind-boggling. Try changing the plugs on the 4.7 liter... you'll know why i'm frustrated. I have the limited slip differential that (i thought by reading the manual) requires a fluid change at 37k miles. Well, the truck was at 25k and and already making loud groaning noises from the rear axle. (i havn't towed much at all either. I took it into the dealer to get the noise fixed and the stupid guy behind the counter had the oddacity to ask me if i had changed the fluid at 12k. i said no. he said why. i said because my truck falls under maintenance schedule "a" which clearly states that the fluid need not be changed until 37k. he said the book was wrong. well great. apparently at 15k miles... rear diff fluid change and to boot, you MUST put in a "friction modifier" from chrysler for the anti-spin diffs. WHAT AN AFTERTHOUGHT OF CHRYSLER! And a what a crappy design! NO DRAINPLUG? WTF?! Especially with a 15k change interval. What a p!sspoor design! Any one of my bmws with limited slip would have been just fine WELL past 100k without an axle fluid change!
I just don't get it.
I know some of you will probably write back and tell me to quit my bellyaching and you know what??? I have a nice blue truck to sell'm.
Dan
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Rob
GenIII
7/08/2002
18:52:50
|  RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Yeah the sparkplugs are a real pain in the butt it takes a whole 15 min to change them out.I just because maitence schedule "A" says your truck doesnt need to have fluids changed until "X" amount of miles does not mean that is correct.Read more carefully for they decribe driving conditions and unless you start your truck drive 2 miles and park it snd dont drive for a week then you dont fall into that category.
Comparing a truck to a car is your first mistake which shows your incompatency even more than changing the spark plugs.
robertshaw 180 thermostat,Z-Tube,Magnaflow stainless exhaust,jet stage 2,throttle body spacer,,Street scene bumper cover,Stull full billet grill and shell,street scene gen 2 rollpan,Apc clear corners,Apc euro tails,DJM 2inch control arms and 3 inch block,power slot brake rotors 18x8 boyd atlas rims
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
7/08/2002
19:21:57
|  RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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i am not sure of any car manufacture that puts a drain plug on rear differential covers. Chrysler isnt the only one that needs a friction modifier either, all limited slip diffs require it.
my 1985 dodge shelby said to change the oil every 7500 miles or 12 months... do you think i did that? no i did it every 1000 miles.
american junk is american junk because some amercians dont take came of it properly
intensedak3.9
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kota on 20s
GenIII
7/08/2002
20:13:37
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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i would much rather take off the diff cover to change the fluids. that way you can clean all of the crap out while you change the fluids. i changed my fluids at 70,000+ miles (oops) and i have had ZERO problems. i dont tow, but i race the crap out of it! i also did the gear lube on my tranny at the same time and also no problems.
Eric, 98 5.2 5speed, K&N gen II, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, JBA ciramic headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson, and a lot more
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handi2
GenIII
7/08/2002
20:27:36
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Any other vehicle I have ever owned had a differential drain plug.
Any Jap car or truck I have owned or used for work always outlasted the American with the same maintanence.
http://photos.yahoo.com/handi254310
2002 Quad Cab SLT Plus 4.7 Every Available Option
Access Tonnoue Cover/Bedrug/360 Air Intakez/Jet Stage 2
180 Robertshaw/Roadmaster Active Suspension
Street Scene Grill Inserts
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Cow
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
20:40:35
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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I suggest you walk because every car out there will give you problems eventually.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
20:50:38
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Exact opposite here for me. Every Chrysler product I have ever owned has performend almost flawlessly with very little preventative or corrective maintenance. Any Import I have ever owned or been involved with (family menbers and such) has been far more problematic, and cost more to fix on top of that. I just don't see increased import relaibility. Dodge just reinstated the 7 year 70,000 mile powertrain warranty as well, in addition to the 3 year 36,000 mile bumper to bumper. It is fully transferrable, and has no deductible. That is about the best warranty in the business now, and you can't offer something like that without the product to back it up.
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handi2
GenIII
7/08/2002
21:01:35
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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No problems yet with the Dakota (except paint, brake and suspension noise) at 1,400 miles
http://photos.yahoo.com/handi254310
2002 Quad Cab SLT Plus 4.7 Every Available Option
Access Tonnoue Cover/Bedrug/360 Air Intakez/Jet Stage 2
180 Robertshaw/Roadmaster Active Suspension
Street Scene Grill Inserts
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
7/08/2002
21:24:03
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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all i have had is dodge products:
82 lebaron
85 shelby
85 dodge van
98 dodge dakota
the only one i had trouble with was the 82 lebaron with the mitsubishi 2.6 motor.
i guess thats my luck though... wasnt trying to come off strong up there but most people that complain about cars dont properly maintain them.
intensedak3.9
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tim
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
21:26:44
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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QUIT BITCHING OR BUY A RICER
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lyffclujjgkfk
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
21:33:31
|  RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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American = Junk
Maybe Daimler will fix Dodge.
Buy German !!!
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SuperBee
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
22:32:53
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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you know why jap cars outlast american cars, its cultural
american cars are not designed with the same intentions as a jap car, the japanese dont own as many cars and therefore when most of them do in fact buy a car they will prolly keep it muh longer than the average american wants to even think of keeping 1 car, to most americans a car is something to have for 10 years or maybe a little more, most ameicans than can aford to DO NOT want to be seen driving a 15 year old car, they want 10 years or newer, most adults anyway, the ones who cant aford to are the ones driving the old cars and also kids and their first cars, think about it, how long did you the car that you had the longest and why did you get rid of it?
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Bob W
GenIII
7/08/2002
22:35:06
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Always have been Ford. 1971 E-150 w/302, 1993 Bronco II 2.8 L., 1993 Ranger 4.0L Loved the Ranger it ran great. no problem with any of My Trucks I don't think had a drain plug in any of the rear ends, now 02 Dak QC 4.7 (need more power when you get older ?)
Gibson headers, Gibson Cat-back, Edelbrock IAS shocks, K & N drop in, 180 stat, Jet stage II chip, ARE Lid
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nuckenfuts
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
11:31:28
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Hey Kota on 20s, If u could be so kind as to tell me how the gear lube on the 5-speed is done,I don't have a owners man. and is yur 5 spd. the AX-15? Did u do it urself>?
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
11:31:29
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Dan,
I'd recommend a Toyota Tundra. A bunch of my microsoft buddies have them and beat the crap out of them (probably because they get to drink beer in the office). They don't follow good maintenance habits but the Toyotas have been perfect. I have two other buddies with Gen3 dakotas. Including mine, nothing but issues. But you have a point, it sure looks sexy.
Good luck,
YJ
Black 2K QC 4x4 4.7 3.92 KVT910DVD
Black 91 YJ 4LHO Borla | 5" Suspension | 33BFGMT
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autocrosser
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
11:39:31
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Most american products don't have a drain plugs in the tranny or diff. Dan, I would suggest ordering some Redline synthetic gear oil for the diff. Friction modifier is built into the fluid. All cars that have a posi use a friction modifier. I think you will find the Redline will take care of the problem. I used it in my Z28 and it quieted the posi down. I going to replace all the fluids in the C5 with Redline. Once you go to Redline you won't have to change near as often either. Good luck.
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nuckenfuts
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
11:44:02
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Oh yea, I almost forgot, Dan, vent someplace else.
There are 100's of 1000's of proud and happy Dak owners, non of which care to endure ur whalings due to being techo-challenged.
P.S. buy a tundra, take it to jfy lube and be happy too.
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mannyzamora
GenII
7/09/2002
12:50:08
|  RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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american junk huh. Why is it that when an individual does not take care of their vehicle and it starts acting up, it's junk. I can say for the last 12 years I have owned nothing but mopars, all used except for my dak and the jeep. I do all the maintenance on my vehicles for one. And all these so called "american junk" that I have owned have not given me any problems. Example my GC jeep just went over 100k, and the only major thing that I had to do to it is change everything on the cooling system.
My dak is another example, 52k on it, 4 open track events and guess what this american junk has given me 0 problems since the day I bought it new in 94. I also see that you happen to mention german cars, well those things are not all that perfect. I have a freind that has a 2000 AMG E55. Yes it is a bad a$$ of a car its relly fast but that thing has already bin in the dealer 8 times since new. It goes on the chopping block this month. Guess what is going to take its place, an american junk Cad escalde.
I hate to admit and I am not trying to insult you or anybody but some of the gen 3 daks have not been cutting the mustard with realiability. All I can say to end this long a$$ coment is, DO NOT GO BY THE MANUFACTORS MAINTEANCE SCHEDULE!! Make the intervles alot shorter.
manuel i zamora
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nuckenfuts
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
13:18:09
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Nice! (Applauds!!!)
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Dan Keller
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
13:23:17
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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I test drove the TUNDRA. I actually think Chrysler did a better job in the overall feel of the Dakota. I acutally thought that Tundra has somewhat of a cold personality inside (my opinion). I'm not gonna waste too much more bandwidth on this topic... my intention wasn't to INSULT anyone's intelligence here. I'm not AGAINST american vehicles in any way shape or form. I'm just stating the facts here. NO you shouldn't have to pull the diff cover to change the fluid. That is completely rediculous. BTW- As always I did use redline synthetic. :) If owners of american cars would simply understand that their time is valuable, and that time is likely better spent wrenching to increase performance and driving pleasure.. not just to keep the sumb!tch on the road and keep up with quicker service intervals. I'm not mechanically incompetant either. I've assebled many BMW engines and even helped my cousin put heads on his '97 Dodge RAM after 68k. You can imagine his feelings towards american products when he spent almost 40k on his truck and off'd it for $7,800 hundred bux. Ask him if he'll buy an american vehicle again. I think not. You people seem to think that 100k is some sort of a milestone for vehicles and really start to expect things to start going wrong. Well I got news for ya! Almost any given bmw (for example) motor's cross-hatchings still look fresh at 300k! Compression is still perfect! No sucked valves either! I'll be darn. Don't get me started on maintenance costs either... the fairytale of american parts are cheaper is now moot. I can keep a bmw pristine for less money than it would take to keep my truck on the road (without warranty). :o)
I know i'm comparing apples to oranges here... that was my intention. Because it's not the vehicle that i'm attacking... it's the sheer incompetence, lack of quality control and deficient engineering.
Peace.
Dan
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Autocrosser
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
13:36:28
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Hmmm. I thought these boards were to vent. American cars still have a ways to go to catch up with the Japanese. 100k miles for a Toyota is just broken in. I bought the Dak for styling and conveinence.
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nuckenfuts
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
13:50:34
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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bmw,bmw,bmw, Sh!t move to germany if you think america is so incompetant.Also I think drain plugs in dif. covers are un-Amercan..LOL.And don't see myself ever owning a vehicle for 300k miles that too is un-American. + I would not own an import no mater how many miles u could put on it.
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Matthew
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
13:59:02
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Fellers... First of all just because one person has problems with a single car does not mean that the entire line is crap. Likewise just because one truck runs forever, dose not mean that the majority will perform equally. You really need to look at statistical data for the entire year of that particular model; TSB's and such. There isn't anyone on this board that is going to present any relevant data that says the American car industry produces quality vehicles equal to what is built overseas. Dang, most of them aren't even built here anyway. The cars are not design for easy maintenance. Change the cap and rotor on a late model dodge ram 5.2 or 5.9 then tell me that was not too bad. Do any of you out there look under your hood and see all the cheesy plastic clips and paint overspray and say, "Wow, now this is worth my 25 thousand." You can't be happy with that... unless the rest of you think vehicles only last 10 years too? Sounds like someone wants to work for the rest of their life. Americans do build quality trucks… they're called Peterbilt.
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Autocrosser
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
14:11:32
|  RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Uhhh the Toyota Tacoma is made in the US and so is the Tundra. The full size Dodge truck is made in Mexico and so are some of the Dak's. Better check to see where your Dak is made buddy. You might be driving an import. LOL Nuckenfuts you just to funny.
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CW
GenIII
7/09/2002
14:20:08
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Yeah but where does the majority of the profit go is my question.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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Matthew
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
14:20:28
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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I agree with you autocrosser. That is the point I was trying to make. I found some build instruction under the carpet of my ram. There were two or three spanish words, but mostly pictures. This made me wonder if the people assembling my truck even knew how to read. Im glad I dont own it anymore.
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nuckenfuts
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
14:47:32
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Got yur point, and I have to agree alot of parts and vehicles with american made badges are assembled by forign nations/workers, but when it's sarcasticaly stated(problems are with not only it's f'kt up american standards by cutting corners/costs (hence lousy paintwork), but the stupid intervals of service that it requires are mind-boggling.) comments like this downgrates a country which I love and will stick up for.
P.S. Their trucks arn't better than ours because they build them.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
7/09/2002
15:18:39
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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i know that some parts of my truck are made in mexico, some in canada, and some in japan (alternator) but isnt the assembly in Warren, Michigan? I truely believe that any car will last as long as YOU want it to. I have a 85 dodge van with almost 300,000 miles on it... no there arent many but our van has had its oil changed every 3,000 miles. The filters changed often and so on. My grandparents have a 87 olds delta 88 with 250,000 miles on it... same thing... oil changed and the thing still runs. And i dont plan on my truck hitting that kinda mileage because thats not why i have it... i have it to enjoy, play with, and abuse. Right now i have 52,000 miles on it and have not had a single problem with it that i didnt cause. It still runs strong and i put a lot of abuse in it and such.... I have seen japanese cars last not even a year because some stupid kid doesnt know how to take car of it and they abuse it all the time.
intensedak3.9
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autocrosser
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
15:38:58
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Yes they are better. They use quality parts with closer tolerances. I don't like to say the japanese make a better truck. And don't get me started on the UAW. I am just stating a fact. The big three need to get there act together. The american vehicles would be a lot worse if it wasn't for the quality of cars coming from Japan. I want american cars to be better and demand them to be world class. The only way the big three will get the message is lack of sales.
Hense Honda and Toyota had record profits while the big three lost money.
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SuperBee
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
16:07:16
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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you know that those little rice burners that people crank like 500-600 hp out of, dont last that long, they will prolly not see 200k on stock internals, jsut something id like to say with no relavence to this thread
also, i have never had any problems with my dak that i havent cuased either, my old dynastys tranny went out but those overdrive trannys of 88-? were jsut plain SH!T,
and intense, you abuse your truck, NAW get out, lol
mudding and jumping and such
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
16:25:49
| RE: American Junk--sorry guys I must vent...
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Hey nuckenfart,
Keep drinkin'. You'll live less.
Everyone else,
American auto manufacturing, engineering, and thinking need a bit of re-adjusting in order to truly compete with many foreign auto-makers and their designs in terms of longevity.
Because our expectations have always been, and still are, less than other packed, less-fortunate nations, we get less. Can't change capitalism. American auto-manufacturing isn't going to change unless we change. Don't see that happening any time soon.
With all that...I'm proud to be an American.
YJ
Black 2K QC 4x4 4.7 3.92 KVT910DVD
Black 91 YJ 4LHO Borla | 5" Suspension | 33BFGMT
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