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MoBull-1
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2002
18:24:44
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 Subject: Mobil 1 ???
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Not Mobil ... Maybe Mo-Bull-1
The latest SL rated version of Mobil 1 is showing lower flash points and a less favorable pour point, which leads a lot of people to believe they are using less synthetic in the base stock, and more petroleum based materials. I know that they contain a tiny bit of petroleum based products, because of the additive carrier package, but it's the base stock I'm most concerned with.
I wonder if the Mobil 1 available now is as good a quality oil as it once was? Mobil 1 claims it's better, and has better anti-wear additives, as well as less zinc and less phosphorous. But are they saving money by going with a lesser quality base stock to make up for those other changes?
I also find it hard to believe the true motive behind Supersyn was not cost reduction vs. true perfromance enhancement. Nothing wrong with that but my prediction is that "Supersyn" will be the "Olestra" of the motor oil business. Great new idea, lots of marketing hype, doesn't work as hyped, gone in three years.
The Tri-Synthetic formulation, developed after the merger of "equals" (Exxon-Mobil), was done in accordance with the Exxon principles. Their syn-oils are definitely cost engineered, and not nearly as good as it could and should have been.
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Rascal
GenIII
5/29/2002
20:04:43
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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This commentary was brought to you by Wonder Bread..."if its good bread, its a Wonder"
An interesting editorial opinion based on no fact whatsoever but taken for what its worth,...nothing.
Rascal
98 SLT 2wd 5.2 Powerdyne S/C (just bought), Powerslots, Hawk pads, Snugtop hard tonneau cover, Rancho brushguard and sidesteps, Flowkooler, Edelbrock shocks and dbl timing chain, Flowmetrics TB, Hella 500 lights, Magnacore wires, Autolites, Black Magic #150 and #110, etc...and a 57 Harley Panhead
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Dak007
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2002
20:25:02
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Rascal,
I can't even figure out what the first guy is saying.
My question is: Has a "merger of equals" ever produced a better product?
How do we know what he is saying ain't true.
I visited mobil.com and saw no mention of their
oil being 100% synthetic.
But why do I care? I drive a company provided and serviced Dak and I don't care if they put Crisco oil in it.
BACK TO: Has a "merger of equals" ever produced a better product?
How 'bout Daimler Chrysler?
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2002
23:42:25
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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I must admit that as a former cart racer and as an
avid Street Rod and Harley owner that Mobil1 is
not what Mobil says it is (I used it for years)
but I have the ability to better explain it than
this "Mo-Bull1 clown".
"Something Does Outperform Mobil1"
Dr. D
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Rascal
GenIII
5/30/2002
03:06:36
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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As a Harley owner/rider/racer/mechanic for 35 years, I still have seen nothing that does a better job than MobilOne, plain and simple. It is the standard recommended oil for Ferrari, Corvette, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW..and the list goes on. If it is not a superior oil, then why would these manufacturers use it? Nonetheless, that is the beauty of America, we are free to use whatever we like. Facts are facts. As long as it good enough for these automakers, its good enough for me. Not to knock anyone's opinion, but it appeared that it was speculation and opinion based on no facts so I took it for what it was worth and that was nothing.
Peace,
Rascal
98 SLT 2wd 5.2 Powerdyne S/C (just bought), Powerslots, Hawk pads, Snugtop hard tonneau cover, Rancho brushguard and sidesteps, Flowkooler, Edelbrock shocks and dbl timing chain, Flowmetrics TB, Hella 500 lights, Magnacore wires, Autolites, Black Magic #150 and #110, etc...and a 57 Harley Panhead
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Mo-Bull1
Dodge Dakota
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5/30/2002
07:24:24
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Message:
Hey,
I'm just a small garage owner. One of my clients is a former Exxon Employee. He is the one that gave me the information and I was just looking for comments from the "dak crew". I was not going to say that the source was a former Exxon employee but you began to question my source.
By the way ... Wonder Bread Sux !
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bernd
*GenIII*
5/30/2002
08:31:30
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Got black-on-white proof?
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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MOPAR4EVER
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2002
21:26:49
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Message:
I have plenty of proof in both black and white,
tri-color and 3.5" floppy that there are oils that
outperform Mobil1.
However, everytime I share them with someone they
question me concerning the accuracy of the testing
and that is when I tell them to buy several
brands of the top synthetics (of like viscosities)
and test them on their own.
Most speed shops will help you do this testing. I
prefer taking my motorcycle to someone who has a
motorcycle dyno and putting it on their dyno and
switching back and forth between the different
performance oils because it is cheaper (3 qts.)
and more accurate.
When you do have your test results in your hand be
careful who you share them with because they will
try to make you look stupid if they don't agree
with your findings.
Just my opinion !
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John S.
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2002
22:21:15
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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I have always used Havoline oil on all the Eurpoean cars before the Dakota- the oil always got very dark, very quickly- always seemed to need to be changed.
When I got the Dakota (a '97 Sport) I decided to use Mobil oil- just the older dino stlye (not synthetic) and ive noticed the oil stays SOO much cleaner LOOKING-
Gives me a good feeling about it, but then again just the color is not an accurite indication of the products proporties.
None-the less, I like the Mobil dino blend-
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zippy
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2002
22:29:18
|  RE: Mobil 1 ???
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I like that 3-in-1 oil.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2002
09:32:07
|  RE: Mobil 1 ???
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I have used Mobile 1 since 1988. It was the only oil that I could buy in the U.S. and in Germany. They had alot of synthetic brands that were not available here in the us in Europe. I can say that while it may not be the best synthetic it is alot better then Dino oil!I did my aprenticeship in Germany. I can tell ya that I have had excellent results with Mobile-1. I used to rebuild 2-5 engines per week due to "black death". The autobahn was too much for 5w30 dino oil. It would turn into a black goo about as thick as molases. I never had to rebuild an engine that was running mobile-1 or other synthetics. When I did have to work on them I found that gaskets did not stick to the block and that alot of parts did not have much carbon on them. Parts like the EGR and PCV seemed to last forever, pistons were easily cleaned with a rag and some solvent and the oil pans wiped clean with a rag and no solvent. While it may not be the best it must be a decent product. I have one truck that if I put 10w30 dino oil it burns 1 quart per 300 miles. When I put Mobile 1 10w30 it does not burn a drop over 5000 miles. While this is just my opion you can get the facts by asking for MSD sheet or white papers on their new product. It will list the products standard propertys.
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MOPAR4EVER
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2002
10:35:51
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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What really erps me is the fact that Mobil uses
the slogan "Nothing outperforms Mobil1".
Thats like saying that Dodge is the "only" Truck.
They need to change their slogan because it is not
true.
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CanaDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/03/2002
08:38:33
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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You guys got me thinking.
I never paid attention to motor oil ads until I started visiting forum and message boards.
I was watching the races on TV over the weekend and saw the Mobil 1 add about twenty times.
They kept refering to it as "syn-oil" but NEVER said it was 10% synthetic, 50% synthetic, or 100% synthetic. If it were 100% synthetic they would have said so...and they did not.
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Lease-a-Dak
Dodge Dakota
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6/03/2002
12:29:02
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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What's the big deal?
1) Lease a Dak
2) Get $14.99 Oil Change every 3k
3) Turn the truck in
4) Get new Truck
5) Repeat #2 - #4
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Propector
Dodge Dakota
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6/03/2002
21:04:56
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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I use the AMSOIL 0w-30 with the 35,000 mile or one
year drain interval (filter change at 6-months or
12,500 miles)
I go fishing every 3-months or 3,000 miles
(whichever comes first).
Now that's the BIG DEAL !!
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BlueBayou
Dodge Dakota
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6/04/2002
12:04:01
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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The new Mobil 1 supersyn is "fully synthetic" per the Mobil 1 website. I have copied the product description from their site. it states:
"Product Description
Mobil 1 fully synthetic motor oils are manufactured using non-conventional, high-performance fluids.
These include polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and other ExxonMobil® engineered fluids which make up the
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ formula.
The unique combination of high-performance fluids and proprietary additive systems enables Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ motor oils to offer advantages beyond their conventional SAE viscosity-grade counterparts.
Conventional mineral oils thicken or thin dramatically with changes in temperature.
To compensate for this weakness, manufacturers add thickeners to conventional multigrade oils to slow
thinning as engine temperatures rise. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ fully synthetic motor oils have naturally high resistance to changes in viscosity due to temperature, and therefore require less of these thickeners. This results in a heavier, more stable protective oil film for engine bearings and piston rings than provided by similar SAE viscosity-grade mineral oils.
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ protects engines up to 204° C (400° F). It contains less impurities, so it protects better than conventional oils in cold weather (as shown by the pumpability limits indicated in the table below). This means that Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ provides outstanding protection against wear at start-up, when most engine wear occurs.
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is fully compatible with mineral-based or conventional motor oils. Any mixing of
Mobil 1 products with conventional oils, however, will only dilute Mobil 1's many advantages. Mobil 1 with
SuperSyn™ is also compatible with all other synthetic motor oils, but mixing synthetics is discouraged."
End Quote
Unfortunetly, Castrol has changed the definition of synthetic forever. Since Castrol can now filter most of the waxes out of its oils base stock, it can legally be called synthetic.
The Mobil 1 website has some very interesting information regarding synthetic oils. They even list the MSDS if you really want it.
Either way, I took it as a the new supersyn was a new "man made" additives package and not a reformulation of the base stock. Anybody think or know otherwise?
Blue
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???
Dodge Dakota
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6/13/2002
10:35:44
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Blue,
Good Comments but...Question...
Anybody know what is supposed to be "so special" about the new Mobil 1 formulation that's new trademark is "SuperSyn" instead of the "Tri-Synthetic" that they have used for a few years.
Just curious.
Perhaps the best thing we can do is ask them about their product. According to their website they have added some hydrocracked oil to it.
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BobAlicious
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
12:22:20
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Message:
You may consider this biased, as I have been using AMSOIL for 25 years now. BTW, I am NOT A DEALER!
AMSOIL is better than Mobil 1. While the base stocks are very similar, AMSOIL has a stronger (and more expensive) additive package.
In most of the standard bench tests, AMSOIL will come out a bit better. The biggest advantage AMSOIL has is in the capability to last longer.
If you aren't interested in extending the drain, you will do fine with Mobil 1.
Amsoil is a very straight forward PAO & ester base oil with a lot of ZDDP anti-wear additives. That makes perfect sense and I trust that approach to prevent wear more than I do the brand new Mobil 1 approach.
For 3000 mile drain intervals you will notice very little difference between Amsoil and Mobil-1 and if you do not have your oil analyzed, you won't notice any difference at all. So why pay the premium if you are going to throw the product away before it needs replenishing. That is like paying $30 for a nice bottle of wine and drinking 2 glasses.
Where Amsoil really shines is in extended drain intervals as it has a quality base stock and enough of the critical additives to keep performing long after other brands fizzle out.
I use it for extended drains and verify the results through oil analysis. I have nearly 20000 miles on the current batch in my truck. In this manner I convince myself that there is value in the paying the premium.
Results on the New Mobil-1 remain to be seen.
I have been reading the "AmsoilSponsor"s posts here and I believe he is sincere in trying to offer accurate information.
I hope my comments help. So, for those of you who are curious about Amsoil (or use your Mobil1 if you want), contact "AmsoilSponsor" for more info.
Bob
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PissedAtTECH
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
12:36:16
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Over the years I have often emailed Mobil 1 or Castrol or Valvoline or whoever, with various questions to test their knowledge and satisfy my never ending quest for oil information. But why is it that these guys always have the same standard response? I wish more of them would at least give out a little bit more technical info. Here is a recent email response I got from Mobil 1 about their new SuperSyn:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for your inquiry:
>
> Mobil uses engines to determine if the antiwear protection is sufficient.
> Any test results that become available will be published at www.mobil1.com
> or at the 1-800-ASKMOBIL number.
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BlueBayou
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
14:49:07
|  RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Message:
BobAlicous -
(snip)
Amsoil is a very straight forward PAO & ester base oil with a lot of ZDDP anti-wear additives. That makes perfect sense and I trust that approach to prevent wear more than I do the brand new Mobil 1 approach.
(snip)
I'll take that as your opinion!
More ZDDP (what ever that is) doesn't mean a better oil. More expensive... yeah.
At what point does this ZDDP anti-wear additive begin to hinder the base stock? How much is a lot? Compared to what? Does Mobil 1 use ZDDP or is this propretiery to Amsoil.
Am i to take from your post that Mobil 1, the originator and designer of the most recongnized synthetic oil cannot be trusted?
How does Mobil 1's approach to antiwear make it less effective. Do you know anything about their approach? Are you conducting some tests on the "supersyn", and can we expect some results?
You seem to know a thing or two about oil and additive packages, so feel free to enlighen us as to the facts.
Blue
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CaliDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
15:05:13
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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One thing we do know is that the new formula uses less zinc and less phosphorus (probably to get a jump on meeting GF-4 regulations) and the 10w30's flash point went from 470 down to 455. The pour point of 5w30 used to be -65F now it's -54F. So I suspect the base oil formulation probably changed a bit too.
So since M1 got rid of zinc and phosphorus, two antiwear additives, it has now come up with it's own "secret" additive. Not 100% on the quality of this though, but I do plan on running oil analysis on my oil after 5k, which is currently tri-synth, then I will switch to the supersyn and run it for 5k and compare the results.
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CanaDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
15:10:28
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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SuperSyn and its patented anti-wear technology? I’m highly skeptical. Using older formulations of Mobil 1, my sisters car developed an annoying “piston slap” sound at around 70-80,000 miles. This is wear of the piston skirts and is considered normal wear for this engine. However she didn’t use a normal oil, she used the much-hyped Mobil 1 which supposedly ran in a car for a million miles with virtually no wear to parts of its engine. As a result, I was not impressed (nor was she) with M1 Tri-Syn (and its ultra-low 0.075% ZDDP level). I am reluctant to try another one of their mega-hyped synthetic oils. Let someone else be their real-world guinea pigs.
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RobInLA
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
15:17:48
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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I am presently running Mobil 1 5-30 in a '00 Dakota. But after reading all these posts about the uncertainity of the Supersyn Mobil 1, I am thinking of trying AMSOIL 10W-30 for the summer.
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CanaDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
15:21:41
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Hey! I just noticed that there are two CanaDak's on this site. I gotta get a new name. Maybe ...
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BobAlicious
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
15:28:09
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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I regards to BlueBayou's question
"More ZDDP (what ever that is) doesn't mean a better oil. More expensive... yeah.
At what point does this ZDDP anti-wear additive begin to hinder the base stock? How much is a lot? Compared to what? Does Mobil 1 use ZDDP or is this propretiery to Amsoil."
Here is the quick answer. I'm leaving for the weekend and to answer the rest would take to long on a Friday afternoon.
(ZDDP) = zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate
More next week Blue.
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BlueBayou
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
16:00:59
|  RE: Mobil 1 ???
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And the techno geeks come out. I mean that in a good way!!! Somebody has to understand this stuff.
CaliDak - That would be awesome if you ran an analysis on the Tri-Syn versus the SS. It seems that this ZDDP is the holy grail of lubricity. I would think that lowering the amount of phosphates would be a good thing as they are very corrosive.
Either way, keep the info coming. I'm always a sucker for the facts.
Blue
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Hey Pissed
Dodge Dakota
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6/15/2002
18:46:01
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Hey Pissed at Tech
I got the same BULL$HIT when I questioned tech at Mobil.
" Thank you for your inquiry: Mobil uses engines to determine if the antiwear protection is sufficient. Any test results that become available will be published at www.mobil1.com "
Wasn't this the same as saying F--- You , I don't have to answer your questions because THERE IS A FOOL BORN EVERY DAY ! A fool that will believe Madison Avenue advertising and TV advertising if we throw enuf $$$ at it, and racing advertisement for the same reason.
Let me tell you something ... I got two cousins driving race cars ... and the decals on the hood and quarter panels AIN't what's in the engine.
F--- Them !!!
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MoreBull
Dodge Dakota
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6/15/2002
19:23:44
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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MoreMoBULL
I was told by Champion Labs that the Mobil filter is now a cellulose/synthetic blend.
I wonder why that changed recently, because I'm pretty sure it originally started out as a full synthetic media.
For all of you that don't care one way or another the M1 filter is liquidation price for just $1.99 at Kmart! Kmarts are getting rid of them in their going out of business sales. Maybe that's why Kmart lost over $1.5 billion in the last quarter.
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pfffffft
Dodge Dakota
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6/16/2002
14:01:50
| RE: Mobil 1 ???
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Nice getting that little bit of extra tech info there. However, they still didn't give any proof as to the antiwear properties of their new oil.
Don't you just love this little tidbit though:
Mobil quote:
"Mobil uses engines to determine if the antiwear protection is sufficient."
Well what the heck does that mean? Did they honestly think anyone was going to be satisfied with that answer, that as a possible consumer, I would just say "Okay, that does it, I'm convinced!"
“Mobil uses engines to determine if the antiwear protection is sufficient.”
When I read statements like that, I think: “Yeah, they used MY Dakota's engine to test their ultra-low ZDDP formula and as far as I’m concerned, its protection will be pfffffft ( as in Mo Bull)
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