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Dakaty
GenIII
1/31/2002
18:28:18
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 Subject: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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I am going to switch over to Synthetic oil (probably Mobile 1)
I went to Walmart and compared the API Service ratings.
Mobil 1 10w30 SJ/CF
Castrol 5/30 SL/CF
Valvoline 10/30 SL/CF
Without starting a detailed techical discussion, could some one generally explain the meaning of the letters? (ie - Is "SJ" better than "SL" or vice versa?)
Thanks
Bill
PS: Walmart has the individual quarts of Mobile 1 for about $3.65. However, a case of 6 quarts is $26.82 ($4.47 each). The more you buy the more it is????
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MikeW
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2002
18:54:54
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Since 1996, the highest performance level for gasoline-engine motor oil has been API Service SJ. New tests emphasize better high-temperature deposit control, low-temperature performance and resistance to oxidation, the highest performance rating is now API Service SL.
Mobil 1 is also now marked SL. Any SJ marked cans were marked before the change over.
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Me
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2002
19:16:59
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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I found the same pricing problem with the Castrol. It was cheaper to buy 6 individual qts than the 6 pack. No one in the automotive dept can tell you why either. Nor do they offer to match the price. Crazy isn't it?
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BlackDak02
GenIII
1/31/2002
21:16:59
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Yeah, here in Jersey at R&S Strauss Automotive they sell Mobil 1 10W-30 in the gallon container for $15 and a six quart case for $24.95. Can't figure it out myself why larger quantities aren't cheaper.
2002 Black CC SLT 4x4
4.7L 45RFE 3.55 LSRD
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2002
22:57:20
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Stay away from Castrol Synthec!! It is not realy synthetic. Mobile-1 makes a good product and it is mostly synthetic. The castol is nothing more then Class III Hydrocraked dinosuar oil. Pensoil and Shell are also not synthetic. If you are going to buy your oil localy stay with Mobile-1.
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2002
23:07:03
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Wix is better than Fram. Anything is better than Fram. AC Delco filters are made very well. I don't know what the flow rate or amount of contaminates it will hold before the bypass opens. A better filter is Mobil 1. Amsoil is best but is more expensive. The only way to get your $ back is to use it for 25000 miles. Mobil 1 filters are good for about 10000 miles. You get what you pay for.
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autocrosser
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2002
11:59:09
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Why are Mobile1 filters better than Fram ? You can't say the construction. Constuction is not a function of how how small of particles a filter can trap. Consumer reports did a test on filters. Fram was one of the best. Not sure how can say the Castrol oil is not synthetic. Can you show me a link that can prove that ? If you can I will switch.
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Marks DQC
GenIII
2/01/2002
12:41:33
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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You might find this oil filter study interesting.
Oil Filter Study
I would agree all filters work when first installed, but due to construction differences, some will last longer and filter better than others. The real eye opener most people don't know about is that all oil filters have a bypass that is used when the filter plugs. When the bypass opens it's like having no filter at all, and there's no way to know when it's open.
So change your filter often...
2001 Dakota Quad Cab SLT , 4.7L, Auto, 3.55 LSD, Garnet Red over Slate, Zaino, Tint, Vent Guard, Gaylords Lid, Hotchkis Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Wet Okole Covers
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Alan
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2002
12:52:47
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Here is an oil study to go along with the filter study.
Oil comparison
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oilinfo1.htm
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MOPARTODD
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2002
12:53:49
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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The castrol syntec is fully synthetic, although there is a blend they offer and is labelled as a blend.
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Dakaty
GenIII
2/01/2002
18:24:47
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Mike W
I wonder if that explains the difference in price between the individual quarts and the "cased quarts".
I got the inferior "SJ" readings off the individual quarts (@$3.65). The 6 pack case was priced higher (@$4.47) and may include the more recent, superior "SL" rated stuff.
Bill
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2002
21:05:57
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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autocrosser, I accidentally posted the filter thing in the wrong thread. Anyway, Fram construction is terrible. I was a Fram user until I read the article and then cut some filters apart for myself. Fram construction is worse than reported. End caps are glued on paper (people have reported them coming apart with one guy claiming that the paper plugged passagways and ruining his engine). The bypass spring is very weak as compared to other filters. The by pass mechanism is plastic on metal. The plastic is not smooth and oil can leak by unfiltered. Others are rubber on metal and seal O.K. Frams will filter smaller microns O.K. and flow well but the Mobil 1, Purolator, Amsoil, and many more will filter as well or better, flow as well and do not have the faults/weaknesses of the Fram/Penzoil/Quaker State filters.The Fram line will not hold as much contaminates before the bypass opens as the others either.
ex-Fram user
Wayne
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2002
22:00:05
|  RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Synthetic is now a marketing term and does not describe the process or chemical make up of the oil. Castrol used to buy their base stock PAO from Mobile oil Corp.. They decided to switch to a non-synthetic highly refined dinosaur oil called class III hydrocraked. They take the dino oil and modifie it and refine out alot more of the impuritys includeing the parrifin compounds. They then add the addedtive package and call it a synthetic. They claim that by processing the oil this much it is synthesized and hence synthetic. If you apply Castrols logic all oil is synthetic because all of it must be refined and synthesized. The Class III hydrocraked oil cost 1/4 what the PAO base stock that mobile one uses. Castrol quit useing PAO synthetic base stock in 1997. Mobile-1 sued for false addvertise. The API orginization knew that they could not afford a long drawn out court case. So API decided to remove all requirements and specifications about what qualified as a synthetic oil. One the API did this the court decided that in the apscence of any defination by a qualifed/unified governing body on what is synthetic that the term could be used as a marketing term for any thing that has been processed from it's nautral state. So any one can now slap the label synthetic on almost anything with out being sued!!!! Hydrocraked Class III oil is as close as you can get to synthetic with out it being synthetic. It has alot of the performance features of synthetic with a low cost to produce. In about5-10 years all of your ordinary oil will be Hydrocracked class III or it will be synthetic.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2002
22:00:37
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Synthetic is now a marketing term and does not describe the process or chemical make up of the oil. Castrol used to buy their base stock PAO from Mobile oil Corp.. They decided to switch to a non-synthetic highly refined dinosaur oil called class III hydrocraked. They take the dino oil and modifie it and refine out alot more of the impuritys includeing the parrifin compounds. They then add the addedtive package and call it a synthetic. They claim that by processing the oil this much it is synthesized and hence synthetic. If you apply Castrols logic all oil is synthetic because all of it must be refined and synthesized. The Class III hydrocraked oil cost 1/4 what the PAO base stock that mobile one uses. Castrol quit useing PAO synthetic base stock in 1997. Mobile-1 sued for false addvertise. The API orginization knew that they could not afford a long drawn out court case. So API decided to remove all requirements and specifications about what qualified as a synthetic oil. One the API did this the court decided that in the apscence of any defination by a qualifed/unified governing body on what is synthetic that the term could be used as a marketing term for any thing that has been processed from it's nautral state. So any one can now slap the label synthetic on almost anything with out being sued!!!! Hydrocraked Class III oil is as close as you can get to synthetic with out it being synthetic. It has alot of the performance features of synthetic with a low cost to produce. In about5-10 years all of your ordinary oil will be Hydrocracked class III or it will be synthetic.
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kj
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2002
23:45:31
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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I believe Castrol buys Group 3 hydro-isomerized wax base stock from Shell to use as their " synthetic". To sum it up you are paying almost $5 per quart for little more than high quality petroleum oil.
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2002
00:01:52
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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To quote sandman "hydrocracked class III oil is as close as you can get to synthetic oil without it being synthetic" tells me that I can get the protection of synthetic but for a shorter amount of time. A synthetic oil that uses esters (such as Royal Purple) for the base stock will last much longer between oil changes than hydrocracked oil.
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Marks DQC
GenIII
2/02/2002
09:33:30
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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A couple points to consider.
ALL oils come from dino stock. "Synthetic" is merely a term used to describe extra steps taken to refine/catalyse the oil so that it is better suited to it's task.
Mobil 1 DOES contain esters (like royal purple)
A quote direct from the Mobol 1 site:
"Conventional oils come from crude oil that is pumped from the ground. Crude oil is made up of a twisted and jumbled mass of carbon atoms that form chains and rings of different sizes and shapes. Long chains of carbon atoms produce a thick viscous fluid that flows slowly. Shorter chains produce fluid that flows more readily.
In an oil refinery, crude oil is separated into various stocks. These become the basis for lubricating oils and fuels. Thick tangled masses of carbon chains become asphaltic materials used in roofing tar and road work. Very short chains and ring compounds of carbon are volatile and can be refined to produce gasoline and other solvents.
While petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur, wax and asphaltic material cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and may end up in motor oil base stocks.
More than 30 years ago Mobil began looking for lubricants that would flow easily at extremely low temperatures. This search led to the development of synthetic base fluids free from the waxes and contaminants that cause conventional lubricants to solidify in extreme cold. The result was the development of Mobil 1, a fully synthetic motor oil created, initially, from two synthetic base fluids – polyalphaolefins (PAO) and esters combined with a unique additive package.
PAOs are made by chemically knitting molecules of ethylene into carbon chains of uniform length and shape. These carbon chains can remain liquid and slippery under the widest range of engine conditions possible. The PAOs are combined with an ester – a compound formed from the reaction of alcohol and certain acids. The resulting synthetic fluid provides the optimum performance properties for engine lubricants.
Ultimately, Mobil developed an additional synthetic base fluid – an alkylated aromatic – that is especially effective in protecting engines against wear, sludge formation and piston deposits. This new formula has been incorporated into Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic™ motor oil, which was introduced in 1999."
2001 Dakota Quad Cab SLT , 4.7L, Auto, 3.55 LSD, Garnet Red over Slate, Zaino, Tint, Vent Guard, Gaylords Lid, Hotchkis Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Wet Okole Covers
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Herb Lansberg
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
06:04:36
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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Once you know all the facts and seen the test studys done on leading brands of oils, use the best synthetic oil AMSOIL. You can go to any Amsoil website and find out all the information you need to know. www.syntheticoilspecialties.com
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Herb
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
06:13:33
| RE: Synthetic Oil Service Ratings
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2002 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummings Diesel (AMSOIL ALL THE WAY) Dual remote oil Filtration System, NO OIL CHANGE REQUIRED! SYNTHETIC OIL SPECIALTIES.
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