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92dakotahd
GenII
 
1/15/2002
21:21:42
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 Subject: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Message:
Hey! Right now I use Valvoline Max Life in my Gen II Dak CC 3.9 with just about 118,000. I would like to use Mobil 1 if it will make a difference but don't want to spend literally twice as much on oil if I'm not going to get at least part of that $$ in life for my truck. Any assistance would be appreciated.
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DeaPee
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2002
23:22:28
|  RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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At 118,000 miles, you'd probably be better off with using the inexpensive stuff.
I know there's a lot of different views on this matter, but switching after such a long time could do more harm than good.
Change it every 3,000 along with a new filter and you're going to be fine.
- Dave
- 01 RC SLT 4x4 3.9 BLACK
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/15/2002
23:26:41
|  RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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don't get me wrong about one thing, the truck runs great, I just put straight pipe from the cat-back on it and just put a ram air hood on it and have poored probably around 5K into it in the two and a half years I've had it. I want the motor to last until I can afford to swap in my dream motor.
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DeaPee
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2002
22:03:41
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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If you want the engine to last, then just make sure you change the oil every 3,000 miles along with the filter.
I use Pennzoil 10W-30 (Dodge reccomends 10W-30 for the 4-cyl, 3.9 and the 5.9, as long as your temp doesn't go below 0 degrees fahrenheit) and a FRAM filter. Some people will tell you how the FRAM filters suck, but if you go by what everyone says is best, you'll be buying something different every time you change your oil and fill up your gas tank.
The bottom line is this...someone tests the stuff released out there. If FRAM filters were bad, then some media company would find out about it.
Whatever oil you get, use 10W-30. And just use the type of oil and filter your normally use and stick with that.
- Dave
- 01 RC SLT 4x4 3.9 BLACK
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/16/2002
22:18:41
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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What if the temp outside is going to be below 0? During the winter here it's not uncommon for the temp to be around zero at nigh.
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DeaPee
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2002
23:12:16
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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5W-30 goes well below 0 degrees.
Chances are, both of them will be fine all year round, but to play it safe, stick with what Dodge or Daimler Chrysler reccomends.
Put 5W-30 in for the winter months and 10W-30 in when winter's over.
I live in PA and I use 10W-30 all year round. The temperature gets pretty close to 0 once or twice a year but I don't know how the wind-chill plays into that. I've seen the wind chill drop below 0 numerous times.
- Dave
- 01 RC SLT 4x4 3.9 BLACK
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Marks DQC
GenIII
1/17/2002
06:56:12
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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DeaPee,
You might find this oil filter study interesting.
Oil Filter Study
I would agree all filters work when first installed, but due to construction differences, some will last longer and filter better than others. The real eye opener most people don't know about is that all oil filters have a bypass that is used when the filter plugs. When the bypass opens it's like having no filter at all, and there's no way to know when it's open.
So change your filter often...
2001 Dakota Quad Cab SLT , 4.7L, Auto, 3.55 LSD, Garnet Red over Slate, Zaino, Tint, Vent Guard, Gaylords Lid, Hotchkis Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Wet Okole Covers
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BigHank
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2002
17:35:37
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Ok, here's my take on this. I would recommend that you use Mobil 1 in your truck 92dakotahd! Here's why... at 118,000 miles your engine is as broke-in as it ever will be, as long as your engine still runs good(no BAD knocking, uses exccesive oil, etc.) the extra protection that the Mobil 1 offers is worth it! And as far as viscosity think of this--more clearance=higher viscosity! I would reccomend Mobil 1 15W-50( this is what I run in our '97 Dak 3.9 with 108,000+ miles--and it doesn't use/leak a drop from change to change!!)
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/17/2002
17:52:09
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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I'm young and ignorant so what exactly do the numbers mean? I'm just curious.
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BigHank
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2002
18:21:05
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Here's the deal. 15W is the wieght of the oil-(i.e. 5W is THINNER or lower viscosity than 15W).
The second part 50 is the actual protection factor that the oil offers. Thus a multi-viscosity oil!
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Dakaty
GenIII
1/17/2002
19:07:55
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Marks DQC
Thanks for posting the link to the oil filter study!
I've been naive over the years and figured they were all pretty much alike so price has always been a primary consideration (although I've always bought "name brand" filters).
This study has some revealing information. I'm surprised that the filters sold at Target are better than some of the Fram, Penzoil and Quakerstate filters.
This is an example of the really good benefits of this Board.
THANKS AGAIN
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Marks DQC
GenIII
1/17/2002
22:25:03
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Message:
Glad to share it, that study was educational for me. I wish it would be updated, it's been a while since any updates.
2001 Dakota Quad Cab SLT , 4.7L, Auto, 3.55 LSD, Garnet Red over Slate, Zaino, Tint, Vent Guard, Gaylords Lid, Hotchkis Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Wet Okole Covers
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DeaPee
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2002
23:42:10
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Message:
10W-30
10 is the weight when the oil is cold, and 30 is the weight when it is at normal operating temperature.
I've heard so many bad things about people who make the switch to synthetic.
Furthermore, I don't trust synthetic. It's not even oil. Why not use the stuff that's been around for the past however-many years. The stuff that people used when they were getting 300+ thousand miles on their engines?
I don't know, it just doesn't seem worth the extra cost to me. If synthetic were 50 cents cheaper, I still wouldn't use it. When I change my oil, I change my OIL. Not my synthetically- made-substance.
- Dave
- 01 RC SLT 4x4 3.9 BLACK
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Marks DQC
GenIII
1/18/2002
07:04:47
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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DeaPee,
I wonder who told you "It's not even oil". Because that statement is incorrect. Mobil 1 (and all other synthetics) is oil in every definition that counts.
What is the job of oil? Lubrication and detergency. Man cannot improve on nature. Traditional oil comes from nature with a little refining. "Synthetic" oil comes from nature with many added steps of refining and seperation. The added refining either improves the quality or not.
The chemicals that are made into Mobil 1 come from the earth just like crude oil does. The route to synthetic oil creation is very different than the traditional route. Hence it's labeled "synthetic".
In a traditional oil refinery, crude oil is separated into various stocks. These become the basis for lubricating oils and fuels. Thick tangled masses of carbon chains become asphaltic materials used in roofing tar and road work. Very short chains and ring compounds of carbon are volatile and can be refined to produce gasoline and other solvents.
While petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur, wax and asphaltic material cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. These contaminants are not good for lubrication, with the heat of the engine they catalyse the breakdown of the hydrocarbons, shortening oil life.
Mobil 1 is a polyalphaolefin (PAO) and ester mixture. The PAO is made by polymerizing ethylene molecules into a certain length string hydrocarbon. The range is tightly controlled. So where does the ethylene come from? Either Crude Oil or Natural Gas. The tri-synthetic adds an aromatic compound. Anyway, production by this method eliminates "contaminants, such as sulfur, wax and asphaltic material cannot be completely removed from petroleum".
Synthetics are specifically taylored to the duty of engine protection. Traditional oil is a refinery cut with compromises for profitability. They are very close in bulk, but the difference in the details makes the synthetic better suited for its job.
The chemistry lesson is now over, you may now return to your seats. :)
2001 Dakota Quad Cab SLT , 4.7L, Auto, 3.55 LSD, Garnet Red over Slate, Zaino, Tint, Vent Guard, Gaylords Lid, Hotchkis Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Wet Okole Covers
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BigHank
Dodge Dakota
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1/18/2002
08:08:03
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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DeaPee, could you please explain to us all how oil INCREASES in wieght once it gets hot?? Sorry man I just don't agree with you!
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Gary F
Dodge Dakota
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1/18/2002
08:18:28
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Wow Marks DCQ! Awesome explanation. I'm so glad someone cleared up all of the misconceptions and confusion regarding synthetic oil. It seems that a lot of people think of synthetics as some sort of snake oil.
Well, time to go change my non-oil. LOL.
'98 Neon R/T
'01 Dak 4X2 reg cab, 4.7L, 5 spd, 3.92LS
(all with Mobil 1 in the crankcase)
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2002
13:57:58
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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10w30 You get a 10 weight oil that behaves like a 10 weight at 32 degrees f. As the oil heats up to operateing temps it will provide the film strenght and thickness of a 30 weight oil at operateing temps. They do this by adding viscosity improvers. They tend to use parafin wax and polermirized olifin. The only time an oil thickens when heated is when it starts to oxidize as the solvents and lighter aromatics boil off. Conventional oil is often only 50%-70% oil the rest is solvents, forign matter and additives. Some synthetics are 100% oil, other realy great synthetics 3%-10% additives no solvents and the mediocre synthetics have up to 20% non-synthetic carrier oil/additives added to them. I am currently useing one of the mediocre synthetics due to availabilty and the huge stock pile of it I have. Some synthetics are not realy synthetic at all. Some companys take type II hydro cracked oil and call it synthetic. You are not getting your money worth with these Type II hydrocraked oils. The type II hydrocracked oils are better then ordinary conventional oils but they do not come close to true synthetics. Penzoil and Castrol Syntec are both not true synthetics they both use type II hydrocracked conventional oil. Castrol used to buy their PAO base stock from Mobile 1 but they decided to use a cheaper hydrocraked conventional oil and stoped buy PAO from mobile one. They kept chargeing $4.95 for their oil even though the oil now cost 1/4 what it used to and is not a true synthetic. I use mobile 1 and it has about 20% non-synthetic carrier oil in it that has the additive package in it. It is easier and cheaper to use additives that disolve in conventional oil and then add this too the synthetic base stock. Amsoil does this as well. Redline on the other hand does not use a carrier oil and their broduct does not contain any non-synthetic oil. They use more expensive additives that will disolve in synthic oil. P.S. Most synthetic blends are about 30% synthetic and 70% conventional oil. I hope this helped someone a little bit.
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DeaPee
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2002
21:14:02
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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((could you please explain to us all how oil INCREASES in wieght once it gets hot))
I didn't invent the stuff. I just know what the numbers mean. If you'd like to take a shot at what the numbers mean and prove me wrong then go right ahead.
- Dave
- 01 RC SLT 4x4 3.9 BLACK
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BigHank
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2002
21:33:37
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Since the 1960's, multi-viscosity oils have been popular. In simple terms, a multi-viscosity oil, such as 10W-40, means that the oil will pour and flow like a 10-weight oil at very low temperatures yet offer the same lubrication ability as 40-weight oil when the engine reaches operating temperatures.
A common misconception is that oil thickens to achieve a 40-weight status. In fact, the oil simply maintains the same flow rate, film strength and shear rating as a straight 40-weight oil would offer at higher temperatures. The call for a straight 40-, 50- or 60-weight oil in a racing engine is largely due to greater bearing clearances, a high-volume/pressure oil pump and excessive stresses and load. This same oil in a modern OEM production engine would cause sever damage, such as spinning rod bearings during engine cranking in sub-zero weather.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2002
23:45:19
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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The viscosity improvers do not make the oil thicken. It prevents the oil from thinning out as much at operateing temps. So as the oil heats up it still thins out but the viscosity improvers keep it from thining out past what a 30 weight would at that same temp. So if you measure the film strength and viscosity index and shear stability of a 30w at 400 degrees and a 10W30 at 400 degrees they should be almost identical. A 30W would pump like honey at 20 degrees. I used to change my oil hot and I am here to tell ya that even 20W50 comes out realy thin at operateing temps. All oils thin as temps increase until the oil starts to brake down and oxidize and boil of all the aromatics and solvents. If you leave oil in long enough it will turn into a thick tar like compound. I have seen people that just kept adding oil to their car and never changed the oil and filter and at 50,000 the engine blew. I asked them when the last time they had the oil changed and they said to me " You have to change the oil in a Car?" The filter read (factory installed).
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2002
03:53:38
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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DeaPee, Need to catch up with the times, man. Synthetics have been around a long time and are used in such things as turbine engines where better lubrication is needed. Earlier synthetics had a problem with leaks because they didn't have anything in them to make the seals swell. That was fixed years ago. As far as Fram goes, I used nothing but Frams until I took one of them apart and took a Motorcraft apart. The Fram is cheaply made and the bypass does not seal. Some dirty oil is always passing through. Take one apart. Do it for your truck if not for your self. They are terrible. I found no less than 3 defiencies. Read the link that Marks DQC posted. It is worth looking at.
92dakotahd, In spite of my preference for synthetic oil, I cannot say that you will get your money back with that many miles on your motor. It is a toss up. You may try Valvoline Durablend or just stay with a good "dino" oil. Regular changes and a good filter is the best you can do. Valvoline is MY personal favorite "dino" oil. If you do switch, I advise Mobil 1. I use it in my '99 Dakota 5.2 and my '02 Trans Am.
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Gary F
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2002
04:44:09
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Amen Wayne. I know it isn't a fair comparison, but the C-9A (DC-9) I used to work on took Mobil oil. Good stuff Mobil makes. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think that automotive synthetics have been around for 30 years? Gives me piece of mind if anything when I run the Neon up to 7,200 rpm on a hot summer day. Never had a leak on anything either, but I've used it since day one on both vehicles.
Back to the original post, I wouldn't bother changing oil at the mileage that 92dakotahd
has on his Dak.
Gary
'98 Neon R/T
'01 Dak 4X2 reg cab, 4.7L, 5 spd, 3.92LS
(all with Mobil 1 in the crankcase)
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2002
05:20:46
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Just about 30 years, Gary F, for auto use. Much longer for the military.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2002
05:46:59
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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"I asked them when the last time they had the oil changed and they said to me " You have to change the oil in a Car?" The filter read (factory installed)."
Hah! That poor vehic;e..
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biff
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2002
11:04:02
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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lol haha haha just change your f@$!%ing oil and filter every 3,000 miles stick to the same filter and your motor will last..... and if im wronge and i dont think i am thats an excuse to get your "dream motor" by the way is ???????? if you dont mind me asking
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/20/2002
20:39:35
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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I was thinking Viper V10 but I was watching TV one day and they said that GenII Dak CC are great platforms for the 528cid Hemi, which I had wondered about since seeing in on Mopar Perf. website. I would like the hemi but the V10 does have a mystique about it and when the time comes it may come down to the bank book and the truck at that point. I've heard stories of guys with tricked 440s in GenIIs literally blowing their windshields out at the line due to frame torque. That scares be a bit but if you can afford the motor a windshield is probably just chump change.
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smokindak
Dodge Dakota
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1/20/2002
23:24:47
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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92dakotahd, are you a dumba$$ , where did you here this sh!t. You have to have a mean car to pop out a windshield. and if i was you i wouldn't waste my money putting the money into that truck, with all that motor stuff. do something to the looks, i mean come on it looks like a grandpa truck.
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
00:31:37
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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If you can afford a motor switch like a 440 then you better afford the drive line to handle the h.p. and build the frame to handle all this. you ain't talking about just shoe horning a motor into a engine bay. Maybe you SHOULD put Mobil 1 in it and just drive like it is.
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DeaPee
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
00:54:47
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Screw that...I like the looks of the genI & II dakotas. The III is definately the best looking truck around, but the 1/2's are nice looking too.
By the way, I've been reading a lot about synthetic motor oils and filters and everything...I think I'm going to use mobil 1 tri-synthetic and their filter as well for my next change. Thanks for all the great information/links and I stand corrected.
- Dave
- 01 RC SLT 4x4 3.9 BLACK
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/21/2002
10:37:53
|  RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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The windshield popped out on a GenII with a tricked 440. You guys are just like all of the morons I've had to deal with about doing anything to my V6. I had to go to a couple of exhaust guys to get duals on my truck just because they didn't understand why I wanted to put duals on a V6. And I think the manufacturer of my ram air hood told me I can't make the hood functional just because it's a v6 and he doesn't think it should be functional, not because it can't. While all of you guys are puttering around in your old man trucks with your outrageous salaries compared to my college poverty I'm creating a well respected truck in my mopar crazed town. You guys need to open your minds and then open your eyes because in not too long the only thing you'll see is this "dumba$$'s" taillights leaving all of your lame trucks in the dust, in both looks and speed.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
17:29:14
|  RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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The Germans played around with synthetics on the eastern front. The problem was that they could not make the synthetic oil fast enough. Conventional oil and fuels would get so thick that the pumps could not pump them. A tank or airplane is pretty much useless when it's oil or gas turns into gell as thick as jello!!!!!!
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smokindak
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
18:04:01
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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dude they are just trying to actually save you money, you would have to pour a ton of dough into a 6 banger before you ever get it as fast as a
V-8 yea i know there is a dude in florida that has a turbo one, but i am sure it cost some bucks. Yea and put your money were your mouth is, if you ever do get it (fast), take it to the dakota meet in St. Louis or the Mopar Nationals, or the sport truck national if you are so sure of yourself. You ever think that it's not every one else wrong, it may be yourself.
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/21/2002
18:56:50
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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I NEVER SAID I WAS going to make my v6 fast, I'm just setting things up so it's doing pretty good itself. It would be pretty stupid to waste money on something else when I can get stuff that will transfer to a new motor when it's time. My duals, and hood all can work on a v-8, everything else but the K&N is cosmetic. I'm not sure what everybody is getting so worked up about.
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smokindak
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
19:21:48
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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dude you have some issue's
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
19:49:19
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Well I didn't get "worked up". I simply provided the truth to someone that came asking. Now you called me a moron. So here is the deal. Bring your 440 dakota (blown out windshield and all)around. Lets see!!!!!! Shall I use the '89 Firebird/383 that runs 11.30, '23 Tee bucket with 6-71 blown 327 @ 9 sec., 600+ h.p. Cobra? No it isn't quiet complete yet. Maybe our 10.2 Bandit 1200 if you want to run against a motorcycle. Hell dude, with your attitude you ain't even going to be able to beat my wife's '02 Trans Am.
Now if EVERYONE is morons then that would make us the norm. That makes YOU different. So, genius, what is it going to be. And yes, I do have a 6 figure salary. So what? I'm telling you how to make the Dakota V6 last and what it is going to take to make a 440 Dakota fast and hold together. Don't ask for info and then jump our a$$. Go study your books so you can get a job and my tax money will no longer have to pay your way.
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smokindak
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
20:05:28
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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way to go wayne!!!!! tell him whats up
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
20:05:33
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Heh, calm down there 92dakotahd! Damn kids (I'm 18, lol).
College sucks.
Damn my 5 figure salary! I am also trying to get thru college (freshman, just started last week), but eventually I will get thru it all and go to a larger city. I think we had a post about a lot of kids wasting their futures on cars, it was a pretty good topic.
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
20:13:03
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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FYI - the '89 Firebird that I mentioned was built by a young man that was in college at the time. He is my son. I am 52 but some of my best friends are young. I could care less about age or education. I look for maturity. I see some great young men and women and believe that I will be leaving this world in good hands.
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/21/2002
21:01:12
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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I have seen a video of 440 Dak popping the windshield out on the line due to the frame torque. I'm wasn't calling you a moron Wayne I was talking to Smokindak, biff asked me what my dream motor was and I told him. I never mentioned anything about messing with my v6. I thank everybody for they're help in my choice for oil and they're concern for my budget. I have done almost nothing for my engine short of Duals and an a K&N, neither of which go for my motor directly. I just bought a "ram air" hood which would be easy to transfer to a different motor. I'm sorry if I upset anyone but I just answered a question and was called names by SmokinDak for it. I also realize that I am just as bad for calling him a moron. I just want to get my v6 to run strong until I can afford a new motor(V8 for sure).
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2002
21:25:12
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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That is maturity. I understand. Hope there was some helpful info in here somewhere. Good luck with your project and your school. I posted email if you have questions. I know a guy with a dak like yours and may know something to help. Bernd (posts on this site) has a fast V6 but he has a little more $ in it than most college students can spend.
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92dakotahd
GenII
1/21/2002
22:06:50
| RE: Mobil 1 worth the $$?
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Who is this Bernd guy? I hear a lot about him on this site but don't really know who he is. Does he have a site?
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