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fot80
Dodge Dakota
12/13/2001
18:33:10
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 Subject: crappy snow traction
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Message:
Hi, I have a 2001 4x4 club cab 5 speed with 3.55 lsd and the 4.7. I live in Massachusetts and we had a small storm here and my dakota was kind of slipping a little too much for my taste (wasn't that big of a storm. I had 240 lbs. put in the back as well next to the tailgate. I have the t+h group with the 16" wheels. what's the best thing to do to increase traction? Smaller 15" wheels with snow tires? Should I put more weight in the back? Any suggestions would help. The truck was slipping a lot when taking turns in particular.
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Troy
Dodge Dakota
12/13/2001
19:31:01
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
If possible, sell the Goodyears that came on the truck and buy some decent tires. The factory Wranglers suck!!! I recommend BFG All-Terrain K/O's or Yokohama Geolander A/T+II's. These tires work great in all conditions that a daily driver encounters. That's my advice, hope it helps. Also, check the air pressure in your tires. I had a '99 and now have a '00 and both of these trucks came with almost 50 psi of air in each tire. This causes poor traction, poor ride quality, hinders handling, and causes rapid tire wear. Put about 32-35 psi in each tire, and you should experience some better traction. This will let the tire give/ grip better. I guess the factory puts that much in them to get the tires to seat on the wheels. Seems like the dealer would correct this before putting it on the lot.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
12/14/2001
01:17:15
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
V-Bar Chains, they will rip through any ice problems you will ever face...but most places do not like those at all.
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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
12/14/2001
10:23:45
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
was it slipping, or was the back end sliding out?.. IMHO, 260 lbs is a lot, especially if it is at the very back of the bed...
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Tractionplus
Dodge Dakota
12/14/2001
10:49:41
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
You have 4WD???
Then use it!
Drive safe!
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MACE
Dodge Dakota
12/14/2001
10:54:26
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
Question about tire pressure in the winter:
What is the common thought about 40 PSI (as stated in the manual for driving 65+ MPH) for winter driving?
Obviously, no one should be driving faster then 65 on snow covered roads, but as a rule of thumb, those with the T+H package, what air pressure do you use for winter?
Thanks...
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
12/14/2001
13:57:03
| RE: crappy snow traction
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I've had good luck with 40 psi on paved roads when covered with thin snow, ice, and slush. If conditions begin to deteriorate, I drop to about 30 or so. When the snow starts to get about a foot deep or if there isn't a solid surface underneath, I get better traction at 15 psi. This is in a 2000 Club Cab, full-time 4wd, with a 200-pound shell on the back. I also have the stock Wrangler RT/S tires and, apparently unlike every other Dakota owner on earth, have had good luck with them.
If your truck is sliding around corners, you might try putting that extra weight over the axle instead of to the rear.
And when you finally do start to get good traction, remember that your ability to stop is still pretty bad. Brake gently, turn gently, and remember that you are driving 5,000 pounds on ice skates.
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joe
Dodge Dakota
12/14/2001
14:11:05
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
I haven't had many problems with the o/e rts. either. I would change to the wrangler ats for better traction in the snow and mud once these tires wear out.
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A Rittner
Dodge Dakota
12/14/2001
14:43:48
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
I'm not 100% sure it was your trucks fault during this last storm. I live in NE Connecticut, so the conditions were probably similar to what you had. I had no trouble in my QC, with 4WD and the stock 16" Goodyear tires, but I didn't have to do much handling that night. I have 60 lb sand tubes over each axle.
However, I spent that night driving an ambulance around to car accidents. It was handling pretty poorly, even considering it was 4WD. In addition to that, the rest of the crew had a hard time getting to the station that night, and they all have various trucks, all with 4WD. My guess is it was a unique condition... icy slush under a few inches of snow makes it pretty difficult to control a vehicle, no matter what tires you have on it.
Andy
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Lesley
GenIII
12/14/2001
23:07:57
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
We got hit with a bit of a storm today too (Ontario, Canada) and I haven't put any sand in the back yet. I bought some of those nondescript mopar tires a year and a half ago, and I think it's time to get some decent snow tires, handling was pretty bad today. The rear end swung out and I slid into the curb on one corner, but the vehicle ahead of me, a 4x4 Ford Explorer, did nearly a 180. "On skates" was a pretty apt description.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
12/15/2001
00:25:48
|  RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
What ever tire you decide to go with get them safety siped. Siping incresses traction by 50%-100%. It will also increase tread life. It runs about $9-$11 per tire.
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Mike
Dodge Dakota
12/15/2001
00:58:55
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
For snow tires, i went with Cooper Discoverer S/T tires....VERY aggressive tread design, practiclaly a mud tire, had 'em studded and center-siped, and have been on ice several times, no slippage(i have only a 2wd, with sand tubes in the back)....i'd recommend them, unless you really mind a tire that tends to 'sing' on the highway....
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/15/2001
02:16:13
|  RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
Siping?? No comprendo.
Dr.Q
'01 Patriot Blue SLT RC 4.7 5sp 3.92 pegleg
0-60 @ 6.20sec.
1/4mi @ 14.75@97.1
Home Brew Airbox
K&N Drop In
Lakewood Traction Bars
Dremel TB Port and Polish
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Lesley
GenIII
12/15/2001
02:44:46
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Me either, never heard of it.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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Mike
Dodge Dakota
12/15/2001
03:43:48
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
basically small slices in hte tire tread, ensuring more 'bite', grip on the ice, snow, that sort of thing.
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LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
12/15/2001
03:53:21
| RE: crappy snow traction
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Message:
I don't know what u expect in an ice storm but when i have 4wd on my truck handles pretty well in the snow/ice/rain. braking is another story u cant just drive like its a nice spring day in the snow!!! thats why more people have accidents!! but seriously i love 4wd and the stock goodyear tires
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Bill55
Dodge Dakota
12/15/2001
16:54:57
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
It may be better to get another set of rims and use actual snow tires. That way you don't have to dismount, remount, rebalance twice a year.
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Ron
Dodge Dakota
12/15/2001
18:46:58
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
I have found slowing down will increase traction greatly. All of the snow/ice related accidents around here are caused by people driving like they are on dry pavement. I'm not trying to be a wise guy here, just telling you what works for me.
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Lesley
GenIII
12/15/2001
19:26:44
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
I totally agree.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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MACE
Dodge Dakota
12/16/2001
18:48:59
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Ok, you QC owners with AWD, how does it peform in snow!
Add me, my cover with wing (I think Dr Q is now ok with this), and my AWD/Auto with LS, that gives me 5000 LBS over stock tires (with 40 PSI), and no sand bags in the rear, I'm just dying to play in the snow....will I be disapointed if I don't get over me head and stay off the ice (Hell, even a tank on ice is useless)...I know what my '98 Sahara with 31 inch Dunlop Rover RTs could do, will my 2001 QC do as well? (yah, like I'm gonna see some snow soon in the lower Hudson Valley of NY!)
BTW, I like the Copper Tires as well.
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Lesley
GenIII
12/16/2001
19:16:23
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
It didn't take you this long to get over that wing ordeal did it? :) kidding! Welcome back.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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MACE
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
08:33:36
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Hi Lesley:
I was always ok with the critque of my wing, had some fun with a few folks here...do admit I haven't posted much lately...a few recent ones re: G-TECH Pro and error codes.
Waiting for some snow to see how our 4x4s do, expecially when in AWD before going to 4HI.
Good luck with your TB install, soon?
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garynepa
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
09:35:14
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
If you put additional weight in the back make sure you put it over the axle or just ahead of it. Putting the weight near the tail gate does not help all that much, plus it takes some weight off the front wheels decreasing your traction and steering.
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FloridaDak
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
14:49:30
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
You have a 5 spd so start out in 2 gear that will keep you from sliding around after you take off from a stop. Lose the sand bags, that's rookie stuff.
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dakota man
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
20:03:49
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
I bought winter rims 15X6 and tires from walmart.
Magna grips p275 75 R15 with studs. These tires are full of swips. Not a bad tire for snow tracken. These are a product made by Goodyear for Walmart. They are better then all season stock tires. Truck doesnt swing from the rear anymore.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
20:54:24
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
And if you go offroading in deep snow without chains, 4WD, and sand bags, be sure to NOT STOP!
hahah.
stop = screwed
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
21:21:01
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Okay, after reading al lthe posts, I have a few comments onthis subject. First off, 4WD or AWD won't help you if you can't drive!!! I see more 4WD's stuck on the side of the road than normal cars because they get the undefeatable "I have 4WD and can go anywhere" syndrom. Siping is a great thing for those who don't want to mess with chains or specific studded snow tires. If you can, studded snow tires will be your best bet for driveability and traction on snow and ice. Now, as far as sandbags, we have trucks with light rear ends and heavy front ends. You want to put the sand bags as far to the rear as possible to keep as much weight over the rear tires as you can get. We have enough weight on the front tires, it's the rear tires that are always the problem. Why do you think you have rear wheel ABS as a standard feature?? Putting the sand in front of the axle won't help you with traction as much as it will up against tailgate. Biggest thing to help you out SLOW DOWN!!! You can't drive like a maniac in snow. Learn to feather the throttle and start braking sooner with less pressure on the pedal. I had 230RWHP and had no problems driving on the snow and ice last year with my 2wd R/T with 10" wide tires. Only time I spun the tires was when I wanted to to test traction. I was also running BFG G-Force KDWS all season high performance tires. Of course what do I know?? I just grew up driving pickups in midwest winters.
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plower
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
21:52:20
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Do yourself a big favor and follow the posts that tell you not to put the extra weight as far back as possible, or go ahead and put it against the tail gate and learn the hard way. You have to understand the design of the suspension system
to know why you dont put the weight at the rear.
It may seem like the thing to do to the novice,and many people do it. Each to his own. Good luck.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
22:30:59
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Putting weight behind the rear axle will not significantly reduce weight over the front tires espically if you are talking about when trying to stop. The Dakota starts with a crap load of more weight on the front tires as HSKR said, under braking even more weight is transferred to the front. At that point the rear is not doing much but keeping the truck straight. I have 450 lbs in the back of my Dakota but that's 9 bags so it end up pretty even over the entire bed. I put new 235/75/15 studded snows on my R/T for our Montana winter and have had no problems. I'm not out elk hunting (anymore) with it but it does great. I bet I can outbreak any factory 4x4 Dakota out there on hard snow or ice, it's all about tires and weight.
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Lesley
GenIII
12/17/2001
22:45:25
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Okay, so what in heck is the definitive answer here? I have had 8-10 bags in the back in previous years, this year have only put in four. I usually try to keep them over the axle but they usually end up migrating rearwards. I have year-old all-season mopars on, admittedly not great tires, but I would rather not spend the money on new snow tires this year if I don't have to. I usually drive with caution when conditions are bad and my dak handles pretty well in ice and snow... it's that slick wet black ice that terrifies me. Up here in Canada, we pretty much get it all.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
23:26:08
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Okay plower. Explain to me this special suspension that Dodge uses that transferes weight better it it's in front of the axle!! I tend to think of weight behind the axle like a lever or seesaw. The further the weight is behind the axle, the more weight transfered to the axle. By your theory if you put weight in the cab it should be even better yet. Maybe hang some weight from the front bumper.
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/18/2001
02:37:32
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
The more weight you have at the extreme rear of the truck the more opportunity you have to have centrifical force have your tailgate lead you accross the intersection. Ever see a semi jack knife during an ice storm? While having the weight at the exteme rear will cause a greater force to be applied to the rear tires due to the weight and tranfer of weight secondary to the lever effect, it will also cause an increase in rotational momentum should your rear break loose in a slide. The anti-lock rear breaks won't do you any good laterally. Swing a washer from a 1 foot piece of string, then increase the length to two feet. Notice the difference? It's called physics.
Your pal,
Dr Q
Dr.Q
'01 Patriot Blue SLT RC 4.7 5sp 3.92 pegleg
0-60 @ 6.20sec.
1/4mi @ 14.75@97.1
Home Brew Airbox
K&N Drop In
Lakewood Traction Bars
Dremel TB Port and Polish
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Ron
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
06:59:32
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
The important thing here is have more weight somewhere in the back. If you are driving prudently, it makes no difference if a couple hundred lbs of weight is over the rear axle or closer to the tailgate.
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MACE
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
08:56:33
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Gotta re-ask: What PSI are you guys running in the winter (especially those with the larger tires from T&H package)...40 PSI, 35? Thanks.
BTW, don't feel like superman out there cause you feel your snow driving capabilites are unsurpassed and you're a expert...its the other idiot drivers you gotta watch out for, you know the breed:
1) Hey, I am superman, because I drive a 4x4
2) How do you put this damn 4x4 into 4wheel drive
3) I am woman, that means I can drive my big 4x4 how I want and not get hurt (being said while applying lipstick and checking the nail polish)
4)On no, snow! I better drive 5MPH just to be safe
5)Hey mom, look at me, I'm doing 70 in the left hand lane.
6)Hmmm, do you steer away from the skid and floor it?
7)ABS, yah thats the ticket, just stomp on the brakes and I can stop on a dime
8)Hurry up, get out of my way, you're going too slow for me.
Seen the above too many times in these NY winters
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Plower
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
09:36:34
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Dr.Q
You could not of said it better.
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macman37
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
11:42:49
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Dr. Q you are correct!
Just a note, when I'm doing doughnuts (yeah, 30 years old and still doing doughnuts), I deliberately put the weight back there ('course, it tends to migrate there forcefully about 100 degrees into a 360 ; ) ) and boy does that change the CG of the truck. It's fun in a parking lot, not so much when you're on the road.
Practical experience is a good thing!
jim
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
21:02:18
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
SO it has nothing to do with the suspension as one person mentioned!!! The trick with driving in the snow is to not have the back end swing around. It doesn't matter how much weight you have in the back, if the rear starts to come around it will probably come on around. Especially if the wheels are locked or spinning. With the weight in the back you will at least have more pressure on the tires to get better traction to keep it from coming around. Maybe for a novice driver the weight fully to the back is a bad idea because they can't control a slide. Also, with the rear antilock brakes, you usually won't have the back end come around when stopping unlss there is zero traction on ice. And anything over 100lbs is overkill.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
23:01:25
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Wait a minute Dr. Q, Comparing a couple hundred pounds of weight a foot behind the axle to 3 times the weight of the entire cab of the semi 30 feet behind the axle is a bit far fettched. Besides tractor-trailers actually stop quicker fully loaded. We're not talking about filling the entire last foot of the bed with a ton of lead so we can do wheel stands here, just talking about getting the truck to be more 50-50 weight balanced front to rear. Look at how much weight is hanging out over in front of the front wheels and how for the cab is biased toward the front. You could get away with a lot of weight behind the rear axle before making up for all that front weight.
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macman37
Dodge Dakota
12/19/2001
10:05:04
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Hersbird, you really can't - because you steer with the front wheels. This is one of those cases where a practical demonstration would mean more than all of what we've typed put together... In a second you'd say "ah!" and know what we've been talking about. If you put the weight all the way back at the tailgate it's almost like a pendulum swinging. In my experience having the weight all the way to the back is as bad as not having any weight in back!
My first Dakota was a '96 club cab v6 2WD. With 210 lbs of sand tubes ON the rear axle I (seriously) NEVER got stuck, and in fact, was in better shape than inexperienced 4WD truck drivers because I knew what my truck would do. If it slid around to the back the rear end would slide out on me like crazy. I would stop and redistribute the weight. Now I have an '02 quad cab v6 4WD and can't wait for it to snow to see how it drives. I will still put some weight in the back but not 210 lbs.
jim
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
12/19/2001
19:32:34
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
I drive around here in Montana with 450 pounds in the bed of the Dakota, on top and behind the axle. It doesn't slide out at all unless I'm going around a corner and make it oversteer with the throttle on purpose. (Hell it does that without the weight, when it's dry, on the 17" goodyears.) I sat for 2 minutes behind a newer Mitsu Montero yesterday while he tried to get going on a hill. He was sliding more sideways then going forward. My Dakota was right behind him on the same slope and surface and had no problem whatsoever. I would have just passed him but I was afraid he would end up sideswiping me. Just because the front tires do the turning doesn't mean you want most of the weight there. All the best sports cars in the world try and achive an perfect 50-50 weight distribution. If a Winston Cup car is oversteering, meaning the back is sliding out on turns, they shift more weight to the rear, not front, to stop it. They can't just add or subtract weight, they can only move it front to back, side to side, or corner to corner.
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macman37
Dodge Dakota
12/20/2001
11:23:16
| RE: crappy snow traction
IP: Logged
Message:
Hersbird, have you considered that the reason you haven't had any sliding problems is because you have 450 lbs both over the axle and behind it? Try putting it all to the back. Or take half of the weight out and put the rest all at the tailgate. The first time you turn the steering wheel you'll see the difference. It may SEEM to be a leverage thing, because a 10 lb weight held at arms length feels heavier than one held close to your body (same principle), but it doesn't work that way when applied to a vehicle when you're steering.
I readily defer to your winter driving knowledge because while Michigan winters can be pretty bad, I've heard that Montana gets it big time! I don't know about where you are, but it seems like the first few snows cause everybody to completely forget they've driven in snow before! I get so disgusted!
jim
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