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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
07:42:09
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 Subject: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
How much weight should I put in the back of my truck to improve traction in the winter?
I have a 4x4 QC with a bed liner, and was thinking two x 60 lbs bags of sand over each wheel would help. I figured the liner already added some unsprung weight...
Any suggestions?
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
08:22:31
|  RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
that's sounds like a enough weight just keep in mind that too much weight will add extra momentum when trying to stop or turn.
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Knobbyman
GenIII
11/29/2001
09:33:22
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
I have the same truck.. Because of the short bed the cab is actually adding alittle weight to the back. And w/ a bed liner.. and 2 x 60 lbs. of sand.. That's plenty. In my F-150 That's what I used also.
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
http://www.knobbyman.com
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DarkFury
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
09:48:14
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
Dayuum... I'm usin' 350 lbs... (10 cinder blocks at 35 lbs each) Is that too much?
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Knobbyman
GenIII
11/29/2001
10:06:51
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Does your truck spin when going threw corners? Or is it hard to stop?
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
http://www.knobbyman.com
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
10:20:50
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
2 x 60s would probably work just fine.
I have 3 x 80 lb. sand bags in my RC 2WD, just put them in there yesterday on my lunch, got all our snow we missed for the past few weeks, all in two days.
I might add one more, if not I can just give it away, they cost but 3 bucks.
I prefer sand because you can use that to help yourself if you get stuck.
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DarkFury
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
11:41:36
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
Knobbyman...
I don't know yet... I just got the truck 6 months ago and I haven't had a chance to test it out.
I just figured that I would need that much weight over the rear wheels to balance out the weight of the engine over the front...
Like I was asking... is this too much weight out back?
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Brad S
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
19:21:18
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
I live in Minnesota , Twin Cities, and we just got dumped on with wet snow. I have 100 pounds in back, 50lbs behind each wheel well.I have a 2wd 2001 CC 4.7 and it seems to be fine. I might add another 50lbs total if it gets real bad.
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Zute
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
20:35:18
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
Even with the 4x4, you need to add counter weight?
I had a Toyota Tacoma and slid around a bit, but never really thought about adding weight....maybe I should re-think this?
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DakotaDan
Dodge Dakota
11/29/2001
20:58:48
|  RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
DarkFury & others
Just thought I would share something that happen to me in high school (1979), I worked at a grocery so I had easy access to 50 lb bags of softer salt I would put 6 of these (300lbs) in the trunk of my car "for better traction" . One slick snowy morning I was going to school as I approached an intersection in town (only going about 15-20 mph) I started to apply my brakes and before I knew what happened my A$$ end was where my front was and I was sliding down the street backwards and went right through the intersection that way and never hit a thing. After I got back to work I unloaded all but one 50lb bag never had that happen again. Lesson: you can get to much of a good thing !
Take care and drive safe this winter.
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Neil
Dodge Dakota
11/30/2001
08:47:43
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
I found anything over 200 Lbs was to much weight in my 94 2wd Dakota CC with rear ABS.
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DarkFury
Dodge Dakota
11/30/2001
11:07:29
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well... I have 4x4, so I figured that the front wheels would help out just in case something like that happened...
I just wanted to make sure that the back tires were firmly planted.
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Danny
Dodge Dakota
11/30/2001
13:37:08
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Don't put the weight over the wheels, put it as far back in the box as possible. Give me a big enough lever, and I'll move the world.
-Danny
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DarkFury
Dodge Dakota
11/30/2001
21:54:43
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Now you tell me this...
I even had a special frame built to set these blocks between the wheel wells... DAYUUM!!!!
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Lesley
GenIII
11/30/2001
21:59:04
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
I put 8 bags in the first year I had my Dak, then found that 4 would suffice. I had intended to build a frame too but never did get around to it. I thought it would be a good thing to have in the event that I got stuck but it always seems to freeze solid anyway.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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Zute
Dodge Dakota
11/30/2001
22:38:45
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
If anyone has the bed extender, it would be a great place to put the bags.
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Dakota 2 Time
Dodge Dakota
12/01/2001
05:57:02
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
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Message:
On my 97 which has a GT Classic lid (which adds 100 LBS) I have 2- 60 Lb sandbags. In my 01 which has no lid I have 4- 60 LB bags. The sanbags are in rubbermaid containers so they can be held in position. In addition I built frames out of 2X6 and angle plates and lag bolts to hold these containers over the rear wheels. No more shifting of the weight. The frames also adds some handy compartments
Also with the sand in tubs if I get stuck on ice I can open them up and use some of the sand under the rear wheels.
I have 2 wheel drive.
97 CC SLT 5.2 Auto 3.55 Brilliant Blue/Silver
01 CC SLT 4.7 Auto 3.92 LSD Flame Red/Silver
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Lesley
GenIII
12/01/2001
13:43:12
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Sounds like a good idea to me
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
08:58:14
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
DarkFury-
I think that is too much weight. With 300+ pounds, the backend will have a mind of its own on snow & ice.
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Daddy-D
Gen III
12/04/2001
10:31:47
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
DO NOT PLACE THE WEIGHT AS FAR AFT AS
POSSIBLE!
In doing so, you increase the polar moment,
which adds centrufigal force if - no, when - the
vehicle starts to spin. Sure, putting the weight
far rearward would apply leverage, thereby
increasing effective weight on the rear wheels,
but THAT ONLY WORKS WHEN YOU'RE
GOING IN A STRAIGHT LINE! As soon as you
break that line of movement (turn, spin, etc.),
you are now turning the extra weight into
inertia - this amplifies and exasorbates
rear-end "fling" force, making for dangerous
handling.
In racing, overhang is a big enemy - it
increases polar moment. Look it up.
You want the weight DIRECTLY over the rear
axles - or just forward of them.
Ideally, you would want to disengage the rear
end and have front wheel drive only, but that's
not possible AFAIK.
'98 DakSport C/C 3.9 2WD A/T
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
11:34:54
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
I took my 2000 QC 4x4 out in the snow last year. Had to pick up my girlfriend and bring her in to work. The truck performed flawlessly with just my ARE tonneau in the rear. I think the quads have enough weight, especially with a 100lb fiberglass toneau.
Take care,
YJ
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
11:37:47
|  RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
I agree. Keep the weight directly over the rear axle. When you put the weight behind the rear axle you are also DECREASING weight on the front axle. Think of the lever, and how it works. Easy math; on a 120"WB, 120# at 36" behind the rear axle would equal 36# of lift on the front axle. Not a real big deal. But, vehicle stability in the winter is VERY dependent on front and rear axle load balance. 50/50 is great (That's why BMW cars work well in the snow). Front drivers are great at getting going (about 60% front axle load). But get a front driver to break loose or spin? WHOA!!! It can be VERY difficult to regain traction. That's why I prefer a "balanced" rear driver (but I drive a pickup, go figure). Watch the "balance" and you'll do great.
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rezdak
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
12:01:33
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
I start feeding my 2 dogs more in september to have the extra weight by the first snow.
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Bluethunder
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
12:38:56
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
If you have a 4x4, why do u need extra weight in the back? Just flip the switch
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R. Middleton
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
13:51:24
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
swb 2wd 5sp w 3:92 sg
I put 8 cinderblocks in tough burlap sacks and strap 'em down tight against the cab end of the bed. Way better than without 'em. How this will translate to your situation is dificult to say, I would think that you would need very little balast as the QC pushes your weight center rearward and the 4x4 ought to give you all the traction you need.
I've seen some nasty winters here in Ontario right in the middle of the Great Lakes.
(lots of ice.) >8-0
Stay sane,
Stay Strong!
Middy.
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Brian024.7
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
14:59:55
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
i dont understand, what is this snow stuff you talk about? traction problems? cold? ice? these are foreign terms
j/k just saying hi from the 75 degree december weather of san antonio, tx
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dk
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
15:33:48
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
SNOW IF FUN, Specially when you are at the top of Sunshine in the beutiful Rockie Mountains looking down the double black diamond, Goats Head Soup with a 4,000 ft vertical drop and nothing but a couple skis to keep you goin'!! Bet you don't get none of that fun in 75 degree weather!! Come join us real adventures!!
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Lesley
GenIII
12/04/2001
15:34:53
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Sheesh! Rub it in why don't you.
Middy - we've been lucky so far, but we may have to share ark building tips if this rain keeps up!
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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Marc
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
16:01:50
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Interesting.
Sounds like the best place for the weight is slightly forward of the rear axle, in the middle of the box. This is based on front and back weight balance. And decreasing the mass that will effect rotational momentum. An interesting note is that with the weight farther back it would take more energy to make you start spinning, but ounce you start spinning it will also take more to stop you spinning (preferably nothing solid).
I've got roughly 200lbs in the back, mostly gravel with a sand bag and a salt bag (and a shovel). They sit nicely in a wood frame (which keeps my groceries in place during the summer ;-)
Quick note: if you buy sand/gravel for the back get them to double bag it or you'll have to shovel the stuff out at the end of the winter. Also duck tape the bags shut, re:above.
Thats my two cents.
Marc
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4WD
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
20:42:40
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
>When you put the weight behind the rear axle you are also DECREASING weight on the front axle.
The whole reason for adding weight to the REAR TIRES is to prevent rear wheel slipping. The reason there is a problem to start with is the very unequal weight distribution between front and rear. The front is not short of weight, it is WAY overbalanced.
The solution IMHO is to put as much weight as far back as possible (a few hundred pounds) and if by putting it WAY back and getting some leverage advantage at the expense of the front so much the better. The front has PLENTY of weight to lose towards achieving a closer balance.
The spin rotation argument is interesting, but IMHO not a significant consideration.
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R. Middleton
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
21:21:10
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
No kidding! Lesley. I feel more like I live in Merry old London England, rather than very cold London Ontario!
I must admit I love to see the white stuff this time of year, but not having to drive in it is a plus, and the added torment of having to look at it when the nearest Double Black Diamond run is about 9 hours away, doesn't help. Hey DK "Goats head soup" is that Sunshine Valley in AB?
Stay sane,
Stay Strong.
Middy.
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DarkFury
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
21:46:33
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Hmmmm... well I guess I'm just gonna go with my original plan for now and see how it goes.
All of the weight is directly over the rear axle and the blocks lie perfectly flat so there is no shifting within the frame.
If it gets to be "too much", I can take a few of them out... worst case scenario.
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dk
Dodge Dakota
12/04/2001
22:10:49
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Middleton,
Goats Head Soup is up at Sunshine. Just west of Banff. Unfortunetly when you say the nearest double black diamond run is nine hours away, where are you talkn? The only true double black diamond runs are about three/four days away from you. Those "mountains" out east are bunny hills COME ON!! J.K. Have a good one.
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Zute
Dodge Dakota
12/05/2001
08:22:34
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Here's a hidden way to add weight, without the need for sand bags:
Get a piece of PVC, that is less than the lenth of your rear bumper. Put on end caps and a drain plug (if you want). Mount that sucker under your bed near your rear bumper and fill it with water or sand.
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Lesley
GenIII
12/05/2001
10:19:36
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well, that's a new one! Reminds me of the tales my dad would tell of smuggling French wines in their reserve tanks as a WWII British pilot. If you substituted brandy, it would be great if you did get stranded in the cold.
97 3.9 V6 Sport Club Cab. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers
Autolite 3923s with Borg Warner Wires
Awaiting Installation: Borla catback, V8 R/T TB
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RSQ-Ranger
Dodge Dakota
12/05/2001
13:05:50
| RE: How much counter weight during winter?
IP: Logged
Message:
http://ems3411.topcities.com/crash.htm
pics take a few seconds to load. (will thumbnail the next page to save on load times..still learning HTML/JAVA/CGI..)
This is what happens when you start to fishtail in Michigan in January when it snows. (even with 3 bags o`salt in the back..!! FYI
It WAS my 2WD 2000 EC DAK... LOADED -4X4 almost my perfect truck (Insurance totalled it)
Now I have a 99 red 4X4 EC DAK. I lost some of the good options like remote/power doors, power windows and got a year older truck with same milage.. but gained 4X4 not quite a fair trad-off, but oh well.
PS-DAK held up great thru the whole ordeal! only a scratch on my head where a piece of glass was tossing around and got between my head and the roof and got stuck until I found it later that day. The only things left undamaged were my window, rear window and tailgate.. every other part was smashed or broken
This place rocks!!
Bob
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