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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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7/14/2011
22:43:51
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 Subject: Not all oils are Synthetic
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Not all synthetic oils are the same. Mobile is a Group III synthetic, not a Group IV. Even though the label might say Full Synthetic, it doesn't mean the same thing for all oils. As for extended drain intervals, it is fine to run extended drain intervals with a Group IV synthetic oil if you couple it with better filtration. Not all oil filters are created equal either. Fram and other cheap oil filters don't filter much below 35 micron and are just cellulose (paper based) filters. Higher quality oil filters have synthetic media, not paper, and filter much better. AMSOIL Eao oil filters filter down to 15 micron, and their bypass filtration systems filter down to 2 micron at 98% efficiency.
There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that's important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdocracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product.
The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic.
In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.
Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has some of the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals.
Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very pure base oil with excellent properties. By starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces, you can pretty much guarantee that every molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the properties are exactly what you designed in, not compromised by impurities. Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about 1990. The original synthetics were designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their high- performance turbo-charged radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical called an olefin, and make new molecules by attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
These PAO base oils have an enormous advantage over mineral base oils in low temperature performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the oil from forming acids.
Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is called Group V. Esters start life as fatty acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters, diesters, and polyesters. Group V base stocks are the most expensive of all to produce. However, the esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an ester base oil all by itself will do a very decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about making a superior oil will usually mix some Group V oils into their base stock.
Oils that are strictly Group V ester oils tend to be better suited for high RPM, hot running, air cooled engines. 100% ester based oils are usually more expensive than Group IV oils, and don't have the longevity of PAO (Group IV) or PAO/Ester mixes oils. Group V oils perform very well in the shorter term. Oils like Royal Purple and Redline are Group V oils. They perform very well in race engines and in applications where drain intervals are factory spec or shorter, whereas Group IV oils are better suited for the long haul of extended intervals.
Whatever oil you choose, know what you are buying. Just because the jug says "synthetic" doesn't mean it is made from 100% pure synthetic base stocks.
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super bee
GenI
7/19/2011
10:04:37
| RE: Not all oils are Synthetic
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Message:
what does it matter anyway?
my old 3.9 ran 200k with the cheapest oil i could buy
then i yanked it out and put in the 318 with 100k on it
it now has 160k running the cheapest oil i can buy
1990 sport RC SB, 1995 318drivetrain, 3.92 gears (came with truck) Powertrax "traction system", 95 dash/steering wheel, hearthrob exhaust, headers, cutout after y-pipe, necessary electric fan add-a-leafs, 30x9.5 mud tires, cranked T-bars, AR 39 15x8 rims, grill guard, roll bars
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other bill
Dodge Dakota
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7/19/2011
14:46:03
| RE: Not all oils are Synthetic
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Sounds like an Amsoil pitch. Neatly tucked in the middle, "...AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals."
Just callin' it how I see it...
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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7/19/2011
23:18:30
| RE: Not all oils are Synthetic
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Amsoil pitch? Possibly, but that was not my intent.
I came across this info online on a different forum, and thought it was informative enough to share here.
There is a lot of talk about what's really synthetic and what's not, so I figured I'd try to contribute.
I did not edit any parts out, but copied it wholesale from the source:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/118261-first-oil-change-in-3-hours/#post839369
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listen
Dodge Dakota
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7/20/2011
09:28:14
| RE: Not all oils are Synthetic
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Message:
fukk off with your sh*t
went though this 100 times
your oil sucks
no one wants it or needs it
the crap is loaded with zinc!
take a few bottles and stick them up your dumb lame
azz
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Sonny
Dodge Dakota
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7/20/2011
21:40:41
| RE: Not all oils are Synthetic
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That's what I like about this forum: the ability to have a free exchange of ideas and information without being ridiculed.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2011
10:47:10
| RE: Not all oils are Synthetic
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Evidently Josh was not around for the "Amsoil Wars" postings and flamings going back and forth here quite a while back. It's a dead horse and it should stay where it was, with those that participated in those post, long departed.
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