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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
14:24:26
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 Subject: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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It's been too long since I've seen an engine with oil sludge under the valve pan cover. I was probably 12 at the time helping my grandfather rebuild an engine. I just got through making my own intake kit out of some pipe, so I kept the factory airhat, but replaced the oil breather with an aftermarket that doesn't have the tube going back to the airhat. I did plug the airhat hole and had to cut the gasket for the breather filter to fit. When I pulled the rubber gasket out, I noticed a lot, and I mean a lot of sludge under there. I ran my finger through it, and it was very caked on. I know I could just pull the vavle pan covers off and clean them, but What else should I look for. Under the oil cap, it's fine, no caking, just old crusted on stuff that is not very big at all. Under the PCV gasket, the same thing as the oil breather side. I bought the truck 20K ago and I've used synthetic oil ever since, changing it every 3k. The oil itself has never been sludgy, so could it be the oil return holes are plugged a little(sometimes I've seen other engines that are, but they smoke when you start them)? It doesn't smoke or use oil, so I am at a brick wall.
Boomer
97 CC 5.2 4x4
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
19:26:08
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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Boomer while synthetic oil has 2-4 times the deturgency compared to dino juice it is not designed to remove sludge build up from your engines. I would yank the oil pan off. Sludge tends to settle to the lowest poit. So if it is on you valve covers rest assured it is in the pan. I would yank the valve covers off and take a look. If it looks decent in their then i would not remove the oil pan. I used to see alot of sludge in Germany because alot of GI'swere driveing at high speeds like or German neighbores but they were running 5w20, 5w30 and 10w30 refined crude oil(dino juice). The worst I ever saw was a Tarus Wagon with valves carboned up so pad that they would not close. The engine had 50,000 miles on it and had been run on a strict diet of 10w30 QuakerState. I regularly saw engines come in 2 quarts low with oil that came out like black honey but had started out life as 5w20 or 5w30. This was within 3000 miles of driveing. The only refined crud oil products that lasted were the thick straight weights and 20w50. Even then they had to be changed every 2000 miles. That was back in the late 80's and early 90's. I went to synthetic dureing this time frame and have never looked back.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
19:32:34
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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Your plight reminds me of a funny situation. You know how some people push these 0w oils? In Europe a 0W20 weight oil is used to flush an engine. It has alot more detergents and surfacants added to it. You add it to your engine after you drain out the old oil and drive your car for a day or too around town with a clean oil filter before you switch to synthetics. It works realy wheel. I have not seen anthing like it here in the USA. Motul makes a product like this.
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
21:42:49
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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The sludge in the valve cover is quite thick and very bad. It reminds me of someone who never changed their oil in 20k (which may've been true). I know this probably isn't true, but do you think that Duralube may've been a culprut in this? I put it in the previous two cars I've had at it seems to work (maybe it's in my mind). I have to change the plugs/wires/cap/rotor this week so I should have time to do it then. How hard is it to pull the oil pan off (4x4)? The vavel covers seems easy, but it's been a couple of months since I've been under the truck and actually paid attention in detail. Do you recommend that I use the 0w20 with a cleaner first?
I could only imagine less knowledgable Americans using German cars and not using a good oil. I know I was overthere back in 1998 and drove a Escourt wagon about 200kph from Frankfurt to Colon and Koblenz. Amazement was on my mind that the thing went 220 when I was going down hill (more like praying that the tires didn't blowout).
Boomer
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Danimal
Dodge Dakota
10/16/2001
21:58:15
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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the sludge may have been there before you bought it. it's possible that the previous owner let thier oil changes lapse a few times and thus the sludge built up before you got it. synthetic won't clean the old stuff out, and more than likely it's running fine since you havn't been neglecting the oil changes like the prev. owner might have.
if you took the time to clean the valve covers and oil pan, that would go a long way to making the inside of your engine cleaner and safer for future miles of use.
some people swear by the additives for engines that claim a cleaner engine with improved whatever, others hate them with a passion because they're made of materials that don't break down at the same rate as oil...thus uneven lube...???
i don't use them and never have, so I can't comment. I do know that nothing in your maintenance would cause sludge to build up, so it's more than likely not your fault...a pre-existing condition.
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/17/2001
14:48:55
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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I really didn't think that it was anything that I did. My mom and grandfather taught me early on to do routine maint. on any vehicle. When it breaks, fix it, before it becomes a bigger problem. The person that owned this truck before me did seem to neglect a few areas, I went over the truck with a fine tooth comb before I bought it, but I guess you can't catch it all. Good thing is I pissed off(doing that) the salesman as much as he pissed me off at the bargaining table.
I was just asking about Duralube since it isn't anything many people know about. I was planning on doing this tomorrow or Friday, just have to let the boss know what's going on.
Besides using the 0w20, what should I actually use to clean those parts. My friend has a parts washer, is there anything else?
I really appreciate the advice from all, and welcome more.
Boomer
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
10/17/2001
20:48:19
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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Duralube would not cause that. Duralube contains clorinated compounds that are extreme pressure lubes and may not do much of anything. It could be corrosive but it would not cause sludge. Only conventional oil left in an egine too long and ran hot will cause sludge like that. What happens is that the light bodied hydro carbons and viscousity improvers boil off first and they get caught on the metal then dirt that gets fast the air filter and carbon particles get stuck in the parrifin and light hydrocarbons createing sludge. If you rub it between you fingers it will fill like a mix of dirt and wax. The 0w20 flushing oil they sell in Europe have allot of detergents!!!!! and surfacants!!!! The zero weight oils here in the USA have standard detergent package and are intended for long term use not flushing.
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/17/2001
22:07:29
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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I'll check around to see if there is some detergent additive somewhere around. I've used Resotre brfore and I really didn't like it, but that was in my old cutlass. A friend of mine who is knowledgable in engines and oil says that Mobile One's 0w20 does have extra detergents. I really don't know. I'll find out tomorrow.
Boomer
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rEID tARDO
Dodge Dakota
10/18/2001
10:44:07
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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I know that Mopar makes something called combustion chamber conditioner that is supposed to clean out your motor. They use it after replacing your intake plennum gasket in the TSB. I was thinking of getting some and trying it out....might help?!?!
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
10/18/2001
18:58:41
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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Restore is a mix of Moly and graphite I belive. They will plug your filter forceing it into bypass mode within 20 minutes of use. There use to be an oil back in the 60's that was black when new because it had alot of moly in it. They went out of business. The moly was melting in the engine then when it cooled it built up in the oil gallies until the engine starved for oil and seized. There are motor flushes out their but they are normaly not recomended for badly sludged up engines that have been neglected. You can use B-12 chemtool, 5 minute motor flush, Risolean, Marvels Mystery Oil or a quart of koerosen(spelling). All of these are available at Walmart except the Kerosen. I realy do not think that there is any substitute for hand cleaning as much as you can get to. If I was going to do this I would get a good diesel oil because they have alot of detergents and I would stick with Risolean or Marvels Mystery Oil. I want to say though that it is usualy not a good idea to flush a neglected engine!Your friend is partialy right about Mobile 1 haveing more detergency. What they mean is that the oil can hold 4 times as much dirt in susespion then regular oil. They do not mean that it will clean already accumulated sludge out of the engine 4 times better. This can be dangerous. If the oil breaks loose a large piece of sludge that blocks an oil passage like the oil screen then the engine starves for oil and siezes. You might want to switch to synthetic oil and just continue to change your oil every 3000 miles until it cleans out some of the sludge then check the valve covers to see if there is any build up. If you put clean oil in your engine and it turns dark and dirty realy quickly then you know that the inside of your engine is dirty. My oil is just slightly darker then when I put it in after 5000 miles.
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/18/2001
20:26:03
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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I bought the truck with 20k on it and it now has 61. I've been using Mobile 1 synthetic 10w40 nad pure one oil filters the entire time. While I was at Target today, I saw dino Mobile 10w40 with "Advanced Cleaning Agents" I read the back and it said that it would clean out the engine. I took it as minor cleaning anyway. Then I found CD-2 Engine cleaner. It said add once every 2k, during each oil change, or inbetween changes. I thought I would use thqat with the dino 'cleaner' for a quick trip for a week in the engine. Maybe even this Sat I'll change it again and use my synthetic. As long as it helps get most of the gunk out for now. I can handle it for a while. My future includes new Perf intake manifold, e fan, cam, etc. I figured that if it can hold on another year, I'll have the motor rebuilt anyway when I add these parts. It gives me time to buy the stuff and save for the rebuild.
I would use deisel like my grandpa showed me, but it's hard to dispose of that stuff here. I know that stuff worked very well. We would add a cheap oil and 1 qt of deisel, run the engine for a few mins, then drain. Put in more deisel without oil and let it run through a few times. We NEVER had any combustion problems or leaks. But now that I live in NJ, I can't quite do that.
Boomer
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lpmechanic
Dodge Dakota
10/18/2001
21:29:29
|  RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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Try the K&W engine flush at ever oil change for awhile, this is a good product and might do the trick.
Larry
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/18/2001
22:06:39
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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I'll see if this stuff works and I'll probably try that stuff too, thanks!!!
Boomer
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/19/2001
23:32:29
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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Ok, here is the latest. I really don't trust this crap I added to do anything so today I was talking to a co worker who said to use automatic tranny fluid in the oil. I do trust him quite a bit since he has a lot of mechanical work under his belt. Said that by replacing 1 qt of engine oil with 1 qt of tranny fluid about a week before a change will clean out the engine after 2-3 times. He tried it on his wife's car and it worked. Here I go again...
Boomer
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
10/20/2001
01:39:42
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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That was true years ago. Back when my dad was a young man trany fluid was just 5 weight oil with about 30 percent detergents and red dye added. Today trany fluid is not I repeat not compatable with motor oil. It still has about 30 % detergents but it is a different beast all together. I do not know what it is that is not compatiable. It is also loaded with parrifins. If you have been running mobile 1 synthetic for the last 40,000 then you should not have that much sludge if any in your engine. I would not flush it it all just keep changeing your oil. I do have one question though. Wear did you find 10W40 Mobile1 synthetic????????????
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/21/2001
16:41:52
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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This si why I'm glad to have a site like this, and the people too. Thanks for that info, I wasn't going to do it until I got some +/- feedback. I'm just going to change the oil again next week after that flush stuff was in there and continue to use Mobile 1.
Thanks a lot
Boomer
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
10/22/2001
11:13:53
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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The dino oil I just bought is 10w40, but I have seen 10w40 Mobile 1 at Target and a few other places. I have 3 cases of 10w30 from a huge sale on Mobile 1 (2.00 a qt.) at Target. The other stuff they had was 5w30, 20w50, and 0w20. This was a couple of months ago and I knew winter was approaching, so I opted for the 10w30. If I was any farther north than here I would go 5w30, but it isn't 'that' cold here.
Boomer
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Kazeem Biola
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/14/2008
10:55:16
| RE: Oil Sludge in Valve Pan
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This is an educative column, thanks creator of the site for the initiative and contributors for their experience. I am a Nigerian working as a Quality Control Officer in a Lubricant manufacturing company.I am a first timer on the site, hope to read more and send my contribution.
Thanks
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