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grregg
Dodge Dakota
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7/02/2009
22:22:08
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 Subject: Synthetic oils
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Not all synthetic oils are the same. Mobile is a Group III synthetic, not a Group IV. Even though the label might say Full Synthetic, it doesn't mean the same thing for all oils. As for extended drain intervals, it is fine to run extended drain intervals with a Group IV synthetic oil if you couple it with better filtration. Not all oil filters are created equal either. Fram and other cheap oil filters don't filter much below 35 micron and are just cellulose (paper based) filters. Higher quality oil filters have synthetic media, not paper, and filter much better. AMSOIL Eao oil filters filter down to 15 micron, and their bypass filtration systems filter down to 2 micron at 98% efficiency.
There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that's important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdocracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product.
The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic.
In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.
Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has some of the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals.
Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very pure base oil with excellent properties. By starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces, you can pretty much guarantee that every molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the properties are exactly what you designed in, not compromised by impurities. Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about 1990. The original synthetics were designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their high- performance turbo-charged radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical called an olefin, and make new molecules by attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
These PAO base oils have an enormous advantage over mineral base oils in low temperature performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the oil from forming acids.
Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is called Group V. Esters start life as fatty acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters, diesters, and polyesters. Group V base stocks are the most expensive of all to produce. However, the esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an ester base oil all by itself will do a very decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about making a superior oil will usually mix some Group V oils into their base stock.
Oils that are strictly Group V ester oils tend to be better suited for high RPM, hot running, air cooled engines. 100% ester based oils are usually more expensive than Group IV oils, and don't have the longevity of PAO (Group IV) or PAO/Ester mixes oils. Group V oils perform very well in the shorter term. Oils like Royal Purple and Redline are Group V oils. They perform very well in race engines and in applications where drain intervals are factory spec or shorter, whereas Group IV oils are better suited for the long haul of extended intervals.
Whatever oil you choose, know what you are buying. Just because the jug says "synthetic" doesn't mean it is made from 100% pure synthetic base stocks.
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good grief
Dodge Dakota
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7/03/2009
01:10:18
| RE: Synthetic oils
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Mobile?????????
Owww this ads alot of credit to your claims!
NOT !
Looks like you guys an gals have a slime ball oil salesguy creeping around this site too
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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7/03/2009
09:46:13
| RE: Synthetic oils
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Informative post. Thanks for the info, grregg
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moderator
Dodge Dakota
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7/19/2009
05:56:16
| RE: Synthetic oils
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a great amsoil guy used to advertize here but he left a long time ago and moved to another dodge truck site:
http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=105
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Bucket
GenII
7/21/2009
14:14:40
| RE: Synthetic oils
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Yeah he used to advertize on every forum and every post on this board.....now he's clogging up some other site with his "million mile" Dakota stories.
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fact
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2009
23:18:09
| RE: Synthetic oils
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{S.H.I.T.} Bucket is just an angry a-hole!
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Right on
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2009
08:11:15
| RE: Synthetic oils
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Ain't it the truth
applauds Buckets post!
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Bucket
GenII
7/22/2009
10:27:33
| RE: Synthetic oils
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fact= factoid= hemorrhoid = pain in the a$$
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2009
13:12:55
| RE: Synthetic oils
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Bucket, looks like you've made a new friend.
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Bucket
GenII
7/22/2009
16:54:34
| RE: Synthetic oils
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daddio, i wouldnt call him a friend....more like an adoring fan, he follows me around looking for attention and only answers my posts.....hey i got a groupie !!!!! this is great !! I just wish he had a double digit IQ. Picture this.... Fact,Factoid,=hemorrhoid President of the Bucket fan club....aaaahhh maybe not. OK roid "you're fired!"
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fact
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2009
21:45:41
| RE: Synthetic oils
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{S.H.I.T.} Bucket is just an angry a-hole!
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Mario
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2009
01:51:36
| RE: Synthetic oils
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haha hey bucket dont you just love those guys that care about you soo much they take time out of their day to talk about you. haha
i think you groupie has a crush on you...oooooo
haha
but they really are annoying
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G.A.Y.D.A.R.
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2009
07:46:42
| RE: Synthetic oils
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haha hey bucket dont you just love ...
*** MARIO ***
that guy that cares about you soo much he takes time out of his day to talk to you.
haha
he has a crush on you ...
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mario
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2009
17:08:17
| RE: Synthetic oils
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hahaha your so funny.....
what a loser....
its not that im "g.a.y" but i have no problem talking to people who are not trolls and actually help people thats all. its obvious your a flammer so our conversation is over, i refuse to waste my time with people like you.
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