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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/01/2008
08:58:04
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 Subject: help with friends 98 stratus
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My friend has a 98 stratus with 4 cyl engine that won't start. It cranks fine. He thought it was coil so he bought a new coil. it is a Distributorless ignition so no cap and rotor.
I went over last night for a few quick checks. I checked codes with my autoxray and none were found. There are also no misfires on any cylinder.
My first thought was check ASD, it tested fine. After a few cranks I could smell fuel so it's not a fuel pump issue. Just to be safe i checked a couple of the relays and fuses in the PDC for asd,etc and all tested fine.
so my next step was to test the coil with my in-line spark tester (plugs inline and has a light that flashes). I checked all 4 connectors on the coil. It would flash what seemed to be randomly. 1 time it would flash on the first engine revolution, another time it would flash after a few revolutions, and another time it would flash when the engine was stopping when turning the key off. It was not consistant and I could not get 2 flashes in a row.
since the coil was new, we checked the electrical connector and the coil is getting voltage. so my next though would be the crankshaft position sensor.
Does anyone have a good way to test the crankshaft position sensor? I checked autozone and it says you need a oscilloscope to test it. here is the link I used
http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c1528008987d
From what i know it's either fuel, ignition or compression. having tested the ASD and smelling fuel I don't think that is the issue. I know there is an ignition problem with no spark from coil. Before we get around to pulling plugs and testing compression I'd like to totally rule out the ignition system.
Does anyone have any other thoughts on what it would be? As I said it will crank but no spark from the coil to the plugs.
- Dan M
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SDave
Dodge Dakota
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7/01/2008
13:31:48
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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Check the fuse box underhood. There are large fuses that are used for the various relays. Check the fuse for the Auto Shutdown Relay. If that blows, it will have the exact symtoms that you describe. You can try to crank it from now to doomday. But without that fuse isn't happening. Use to be a dealer item only, but you can now get them at Advance for sure. I think they are also available at Autozone and NAPA. At this point, this is definitely where I would start.
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/01/2008
15:25:19
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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SDave
I did check all of the fuses and relays in the PDC just to be sure, all are good.
I will take my fuel pressure tester over tonight just to be safe and check the fuel is a good pressure.
- Dan M
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SDave
Dodge Dakota
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7/01/2008
16:49:12
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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There is a ground wire that is bolted down atop the alternator bracket on some vehicles. If it is not bolted down tight or has a raw spot it will do the same thing with exactly the same symtoms. Not start.
How long has this problem been occuring? Did it start soon after some other work was performed on this car? If so, what?
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/01/2008
17:43:27
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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no work that I'm aware of.
I did check the grounds that I could see. I will check the alternator ground.
- Dan M
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/02/2008
08:23:27
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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my friend tested the crankshaft sensor per the haynes manual so he picked up another one. The vehicle still won't start with the new crankshaft sensor.
Checked timing and all 3 marks are lined up and timing belt is good.
Ground wire to alternator is good.
still no spark from coil to plugs.
- Dan M
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SDave
Dodge Dakota
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7/02/2008
11:40:58
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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You said you checked the fuel pump. I would check to see if it had adequate fuel pressure and holds pressure after you switch off the ignition. Did you check to see if the fuel filter was stopped up? The next thing that comes to mind is that it may have a bad computer.
So check for a bad fuel pump, fuel filter, and then a bad computer.
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/03/2008
07:59:25
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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speaking of bad computers. the check engine light came on in my friends dodge caravan yesterday afternoon. They took it to autozone and had them read the code, P0601...Internal Control Module Memory Checksum error.
ouch, car won't start and van has bad pcm?
They had some other stuff going on so I couldn't get over to check the pump/filter (not sure his car even has a replaceable filter).
- Dan M
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SDave
Dodge Dakota
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7/05/2008
11:52:27
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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I am sure it has a replaceable fuel filter in the gas tank. I would check with local Dodge dealership to see if the mechanics know of the most likely cause for it not starting up. They know of all the recent and past tsb's on that particular year model car for sure. If a lot of cars of that year and model have a reoccuring problem they know about it. Just tell them that you are trying to determine the cause of the problem so you have some idea what it might take to fix the car.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
7/08/2008
23:46:59
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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One thing I do if I suspect no fuel is simply spray some fuel down the throttle body and see if it starts briefly. If it does, bad pump or filter could be likely.
But it sounds like Dan already knows it's no spark.
I'd think if it had a bad crank or cam sensor, then you would get no fuel either and usually a code. No fuel doesn't set a code.
Maybe the PCM isn't triggering the coil?
So when you checked for spark, did you do the simple method of pulling a spark plug wire, sticking a screwdriver into it and holding it a 1/4" or so from ground while your friend cranks it? That's the best way to check for spark.
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/10/2008
13:09:14
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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I still haven't been able to get over to test the fuel pressure with my test gauge. my friend works in heating/ac and has been very busy with the 80+ days here in GA and family illness.
I think he'll have time tonight.
GraphiteDak - i tested spark using an inline light spark tester. One end plugs onto the coil the other on the spark plug wire. When the coil fires it cause the light to light up. I haven't done the ole screwdriver test yet to test or spark.
crank position and cam sensors have been replaced - he said they both tested bad per haynes instructions - but I'm not so sure about that. Anyways, they are new sensors.
could be a bad ground - i had an issue with ground wire at the pcm in my old 95 dakota. took me weeks to figure that one out - think I posted about that here. same symptoms as him. I told him about it, not sure he ever tested the ground wire at the pcm connector.
One other thing he can check is to see if it starts in neutral. Could be the neutral safety switch.
- Dan M
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/12/2008
13:36:45
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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We finally got together last night. I tested the fuel pressure,it was 0. I re-checked all fuses and relays under the hood (2 different pdc boxes).
According to the haynes manual there is supposed to be a 4 pin connector in the trunk at the base of the driver side shock support. We found 2 connectors a 2 pin and a larger one (maybe 8 wires, i dont remember). we could not find the 4 wire. This was supposed to be the power to the fuel pump. We opened the fuel door and took the cap off, neither of us could hear the pump kicking on when trying to start.
Odd that suddenly the fuel pump would die.
we did not check for power at both pdcs for all relays.
vehicle did not start in netural, could possibly still be neutral safety switch.
I'm still thinking he has a ground issue. I told him to check wiring in haynes and test grounds at the pcm.
what would cause the fuel pump to not kick on besides bad computer?
- Dan M
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
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7/12/2008
16:20:14
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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A bad fuel pump relay, but its sounds like you have already checked that, maybe a broken wire somewhere between the relay and the fuel pump. I would try running a hot wire from the battery to the fuel pump and there by, by passing all the other stuff and see if that works, if it doesn't I would think its the pump its self. Or as you have stated, a bad ground. If you try the hot wire idea, try using a new ground as well to see if that works.
Good luck
Dakota49
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LeaseMo
Dodge Dakota
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7/18/2008
16:50:36
|  RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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try touching the sparkplugs next time you try to start it.
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Bad Idea
Dodge Dakota
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7/18/2008
16:53:31
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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No don't do that!!!
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/20/2008
19:20:25
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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I've been told that if the timing is off enough it will not start and not get fuel because it's computer controlled.
He's adjusting the timing.
- Dan M
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2008
19:51:12
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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I didn't think the 98 would have a dist. if it does, then I would think it may work like the V6&V8 it would also control the fuel timing and not the ignition, but I could be wrong about that. You might try checking some of the older post and see what others have said about fuel timing and see if that applies to stratus.
Good Luck
Dakota49
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/24/2008
22:36:26
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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it does not have a distributor. I am wondering if the timing belt slipped or something happened with the teeth on the gears.
- Dan M
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
7/24/2008
23:36:14
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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Have you tried sprayhing some fuel down the throttle body?
if it's the fuel pump or fuel pump relay, it should start (for a breif second) if you spray some fuel down the throttle body.
Try that and see what happens.
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Kowalski
GenIII
7/25/2008
08:14:21
| RE: help with friends 98 stratus
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I wouldn't put off checking the compression until ignition was eliminated, as you seem to want to do. Running the emergency service patrol truck on a toll road, I saw many vehicles disabled from jumped timing belts. Often it was easy to spot, even without a compression tester - they'd either be cranking faster than normal due to lack of compression; or sucking through the exhaust instead of puffing. Anything like that going on ? Not saying that's your problem, just a possibility.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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