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General Dakota Board
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2008
18:58:02
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 Subject: 318 c.i. paperweight
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Before I ask my questions, I will first explain my current sad situation with my '96 4x4 dak with the 318. I was coming to a stop @ an intersection when my engine shut off. I tried to restart it, but when I did, it sputtered around for a few seconds and then died. While it was sputtering around, I heard what sounded like ball bearings bouncing around inside of the engine. After another crank or so (I know,very stupid), the engine refused to budge, and then there was no electrical power to anything. So I get out and open my hood in the middle of a busy intersection to see if I could see what the problem was. I just happened to notice that there was no wingnut on top of the air cleaner assembly. So, I pulled the assembly off and my heart instantly sank...the bolt holding the assembly in place had broken off of the throttle body, and I couldn't see it after getting a flashlight and trying to find it by looking down into the intake manifold. I knew that the bolt went into the intake manifold because while I was on the highway a few minutes before, I let off the gas to slow down, but the truck kept going faster and faster until it hit about 95 mph, until I lightly pressed the petal and let go again, when it finally slowed back down. The kicker is that I could not find my cell phone before I left the house, so I was stranded in the middle of an intersection with my dead truck with nowhere to go and no way to get a hold of anybody. I couldn't leave it because I had the windows down and I have an aftermarket stereo and other valuables inside that would be very nice to steal. So after someone pulls me off the road and gives me a jump so that I may put the windows up, I get my dak towed home. When the weekend rolled around I tore the top half of the engine apart and found pieces of the bolt in the cylinders, with large chunks of metal missing from the pistons, as well (enter tears here :_( So, being that that entire engine is trashed, I now come to my questions for you knowledgeable folks out there.
I do have a 360 out of a 1994 ram that is freshly rebuilt, but I converted it to a carb. I know that this will bolt up to everything, but
1. I'm pretty sure that I have the 42re trans, which would mean that it will not work with a carb'd engine, correct?
2. Would it be possible to shift the tranny manually with the gearshift, or would that not work?
3. Is it possible that I have a 42rh trans (does such a thing exist?)? I thought about perhaps putting in a 46rh trans, but are the casings the same (dimensionally, and with all the mounts)? I thought that I could let the computer in with the 46rh and let it run the things that it needed to (ie dash gauges, etc.).
4. If I did use the 46rh and carb engine, would that just open up another can of worms with all the electrical computer-run components?
I apologize for being soooooo long winded, but I tried to descibe as much as possible so that we're all on the same page. Thank you in advance...
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2008
23:33:51
|  RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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1. Nope, it won't.
2. Nope, it's all electronic feedback. Manually shifting won't get around that.
3. Nope, everything went "RE" in '96. The RH's do exist, pre-'96. Why try to piggyback an OBDI system onto an OBDII? It'd be easier to graft an OBDII 360 computer into your harness. The bolt patterns are the same on the trannys.
4. Yes, but there are always ways around these things.
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miltonwaddums
Dodge Dakota
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2/05/2008
07:51:24
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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Sorry to hear about your dak. It sounds like you have an idea of whats going on. A 42re (or rh for that matter) will not handle the torque of a 360. You would need a 46rh. On the flip side, you now have the excuse to start a really cool project.
IMHO, I think a 360 (MPI or carbed) coupled to a manual would be a blast to drive. That being said, I'm not sure what manual tranny bolts to a 360. NV4500 maybe? Engine control is still an issue though. No matter how you slice it, putting a pre-96 motor into a 96-and up truck wil always create problems. But like anything else, theres always a way around it.
Good luck.
Jay
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/05/2008
11:48:00
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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The 42 can easily handle the 360. Remember, the overdrive sections for the 42 and 46 are the same (400ft/lb torque max input). Mopar put the predecessor to the 42, the 904, behind the 360 (in very heavy trucks, can we say Ramcharger, as well as big cars), no problem. Now, stock to stock, the 46 will last longer than the 42, particularly when in heavy situations simply by virtue of having larger clutch surfaces. Naturally, a better-than-stock aftermarket built tranny will outlive either in OEM form, but you're not gonna break the 42's internals with a 360, especially a stock, or mild performance 360.
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2008
22:17:50
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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first, let me say thanks to you guys for your input. Now, gen1dak, when you said, "It'd be easier to graft an OBDII 360 computer into your harness," in what situation would I need to (or want to)do that? Did you mean if I installed a '96 or later 360 that still had all the stock MPI and electronic components? I just found out about this place up here in PA that has specials where ANY engine is only $65.00 (you must pull it out yourself), so if I couldn't find a 5.2, maybe there would be a 360 that would work. I know that if I would use a 360, that I would need the computer to run it. That brings me to two more questions:
1. would any '96 and later 5.2/5.9 engine work with any other '96 or later truck (that already has a V8, of course)?
2. I always see on ebay that engines are sold as being able to work with any '92-'02ish truck-how could that be if pre-'96 didn't utilize OBDII?
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miltonwaddums
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2008
07:54:42
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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dakownr,
I would GUESS that any 96-up 360 would work. (or at least could be easily adapted to work). If you're looking for some fun, I would get one that can work with the mopar performance pcm and get some viper rockers for it. And throw in a shift kit while the truck is down.
$65 for a motor? I could have some fun there. Where in PA?
As for any 92-02ish motor working on an OBDII system, thats probably if you add all electronics, TB, intake, MPI, emissions sensors, etc. to make it an OBDII engine.
Jay
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2008
09:33:59
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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Milton, whaaaat's happening. I'm gonna have to go ahead and ask you to, uh, follow this link for the place with the engine specials...yeah. So if you would just go ahead and go there, that would be grrreaaat, thank you.
http://www.wegotused.com/harrys.htm
Now about the MP 'puter, viper rocker arms, and shift kit. I already have the rocker arms (which I'm very, or rather was, pleased with), and I would like to get the MP 'puter and perhaps the shift kit when I get my tax return. Even though I have two jobs, I can't really afford to buy anything until I get my tax return or until summer (full time college student). Nearly all of my money goes for gas to commute to and from school. Oh well, at least I should be able to afford these things whenever I graduate and get a career.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2008
12:08:49
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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Any Magnum engine will work. The OBDI/OBDII issue is primarily with the electronics. The only other issue is the EGR for the OBDI, which involves the exhaust tube that ties in the exhaust and the intake, so you can buy any Magnum 5.2/5.9 and use it in any vehicle so long as certain issues are addressed.
In pre-Magnum vehicles, they bolt in as replacements for the LA block. Use a Magnum-style-for-carb intake, change distributor.
In OBDI, they need the OBDI era intake and exhaust since they have an exhaust recirc. tube. Use OBDI electronics.
In OBDII, use OBDII intake and exhaust, or OBDI intake and exhaust with the EGR tube ports blocked off. Use OBDII electronics (the OBDI stuff works the same way but they changed the connectors in the harness...cheesy way to keep prices up).
So, you can use any Magnum engine in any Magnum, even pre-Magnum vehicle, so long as a few basic things are addressed to match the vehicle it's going into..
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2008
17:58:30
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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Sweet, that should make the chances of me finding an engine that will work go up quite a bit. Thank you much!
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Joe.C
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2008
14:50:50
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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dacowner
Try a Jasper Tranny. Somthing simular to the 46re.
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2008
20:07:20
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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so, i got another engine, and it was for a manual trans (mine is an auto). i took the pilot bearing out of the back of the crankshaft, but i also need to get the part out that the bearing was pressed into. Is this even possible? If it is, how do you do it; if not, i was going to drill it out. Would that be an ok solution? I have the old crankshaft, but I would like to avoid tearing apart the bottom halves of the engines at all costs. thanks
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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2/28/2008
19:41:01
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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well, instead of drilling it out, I used a dremel tool with a couple of grinding wheels to grind metal out at the 9 and 3-o'clock positions of the sleeve, then used a hammer and screwdriver to collapse it and pull it out. After that, the engine went in pretty easily. Now all I need to do is put the rest of the bolts in, attach the wiring harness, install about 10 other parts, and it should run. thanks to all of you who gave me advice on my problems...it is appreciated
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
09:13:44
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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I don't know if anyone is even interested in my conclusion of this post, but I always like to see people come back and say how their problem worked out/was fixed, etc, so I will do the same. The engine that I bought was not from the salvage yard mentioned above (although I'll probably go there within the next few months...I'll give you guys a rundown of the place, then), it was an engine that a buddy of mine had seen an ad for in the "PA auto connection". So I called the number, and the guy said that he was selling his 70,000 mi engine for $400. Considering the prices for all the engines on ebay and junkyards (which have many more miles on them), this was a steal. My dad got a company truck for the day to do "business" with, and we used it to make the 2-hour round trip- free gas!! Anyway, whenever I took the engine (which runs great, by the way) for its first drive in my dak, I was very pleasantly pleased at the very noticeable difference in power between it and my engine that had 159,000 mi showing. I was up to 80 mph before I could blink an eye...yeehaw!
In case anybody uses this for a future reference, I would like to say that the transmision check plate was a biotch to get back in between the engine and tranny. I ended up sawing off the part of the plate where the starter pokes through plus about 1" extra around the hole, being careful not to saw off any part that would leave the flexplate/torque conv. exposed. I also cut off the little tab-like protrusion from the top of the other side. After I did that, the plate slid in with little difficulty. Also, since this engine did not come with the belt-driven fan or viscous clutch on the water pump, I had to fab some (temporary) brackets out of some, uh, commandeered;) road signs (thanks PennDOT!). I installed two electric fans from a 3rd gen taurus, and as of now have only one of them wired up to a switch in the cab. Very soon in the future, I will install some type of thermostatic-controlled switch to automatically turn the other one on/off. Another may be overkill, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Anybody have any suggestions on a good thermostatic-switch to buy? Also, I would recommend the taurus fans to anybody else who is thinking of converting theirs to electric fans. Not only did I get mine for only $20, but they are extremely easy to mount and wire...Just make sure you get the bottom four (2/fan) mounts and the wiring harness w/ about 1-2 feet of wire if you decide to do this.
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mash
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
11:46:52
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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i have a 95 318 dak 4x4,i thought my fuel pump went on me cause it wasn't getting power,so first i changed the relay (didn't work) then i changed the pump,still didn't work! is there something i'm missing? are there any other relays or sylinoids?
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miltonwaddums
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
12:33:44
|  RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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mash,
not getting power is kind of ambiguous. I'm sure myself or someone here could help you out if you were a little more specific. Does it not start? Does it start but not make much power? Does it feel like it's starving for fuel at a certain RPM?
The feeling I got from your post was that it started, but wouldn't make much power. I would start with Throttle Position Sensor or Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. The older 318's I'm not very familiar with, but there may be a cam or crank position sensor thats out of whack.
I'm just throwing out basic ideas here, please be more specific of your problem and I'm sure someone can help you out much more than I can.
Jay
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Mark.S
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
15:55:04
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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Hey Dakotaowner,
You ever thought about swapping your engine in for a Jasper?
Also a 46Rh would fit your engine with no problem.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
16:45:33
| RE: 318 c.i. paperweight
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Hey mash, first thing you should do is check for codes if you haven't already. you could take a look at the ASD relay. the codes will give you a better indication of where to look than anyone just taking a shot in the dark.
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