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Wadak1234
Dodge Dakota
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8/20/2007
20:30:48
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 Subject: Possible nationwide emissions test
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News Bulletin PR-48
August 10, 2007
Legislators Urged to Include Emissions Testing Requirements in Global Warming Legislation
ASA Appeals to Committees Involved in Climate Change Proposals
WASHINGTON, D.C., August 10, 2007 - The Automotive Service Association (ASA) has urged members of both the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives to include a new emissions testing requirement in global warming legislation that is expected this fall. ASA sent a letter to members of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, the House Energy and Commerce Committee, and the House Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming encouraging a renewed effort for vehicle emissions testing.
Currently, federal law does not require states to use the vehicle emissions testing programs. Emissions testing is only required in areas that have had problems meeting health-based air quality standards. This current standard, however, does not account for cars, where emissions tests are not required, driving through and polluting areas that have more stringent air quality standards. Therefore, there is a need for a national standard for vehicle emissions inspection and maintenance (I/M) programs to ensure the best possible level of air quality.
According to the American Lung Association's 2006 State of the Air Report, approximately 150 million people live in U.S. counties with unhealthful levels of pollution. ASA believes if vehicles are not properly maintained they will only further contribute to these levels of pollution and cause damage to the environment.
There are two types of emissions tests offered today - the basic tailpipe test and the more advanced on-board diagnostics II (OBD-II) test. Commenting on the tests, Robert L. Redding, ASA's Washington, D.C., representative, said, "The Automotive Service Association supports both traditional tailpipe and OBD testing. What is most important is that emissions testing be required in all states to promote clean cars and a cleaner environment. ASA would like to encourage Congress to consider mandatory federal vehicle emissions testing as part of the effort to develop global warming legislation this fall."
The association asks all ASA members to contact their members of Congress to urge them to include emissions testing requirements in potential climate change bills this fall. To send a letter in favor of a new requirement for federal vehicle emissions testing, visit ASA's legislative Web site, www.TakingTheHill.com.
The Automotive Service Association is the largest not-for-profit trade association of its kind serving an international membership base that includes numerous affiliate, state and chapter groups from all segments of the automotive service industry. ASA's headquarters is in Bedford, Texas.
ASA advances professionalism and excellence in the automotive repair industry through education, representation and member services. For additional information about ASA, including past news releases, go to www.asashop.org, or visit ASA's legislative Web site at www.TakingTheHill.com.
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Wellpoop
Dodge Dakota
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8/20/2007
22:56:14
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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i guess i better go find some mufflers and cats then
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
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8/21/2007
01:00:03
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Im gonna need a lot more than that to keep my firebird on the road LOL. I dont think there is one smog piece of equipment left on it. Hopefully it will take them a couple of years so I can get some historical plates. That or do a some more body work to it and call it a kit car LOL.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/21/2007
15:07:11
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Great. Another example of our gov't passing on a new consumer expense that won't fix a problem that doesn't exist.
Of course the ASA is pushing this, they'll reap billions out of it. All from our pockets.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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8/24/2007
08:41:54
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I guess you'd better tell my wife that her asthma doesn't exist, and isn't aggravated by smog.
We all breathe the same air. Why would anyone be opposed to trying to clean it up?
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Forseti
Dodge Dakota
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8/24/2007
16:56:23
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Bob.. nobody is saying that her asthma doesn't exist but you have to agree that air pollution doesn't cause it because its a chronic disease. Now air pollution is an irritant but so is cigarette smoke, scented products, changes in the weather, and strong odors from painting and cooking. And as for allergens you have dust mites, cockroaches, pollen, mold, and animal dander. Sulfites you find in dried fruit and wine can cause a asthma reaction. So if you think about it air pollution only makes up a small percent. And do you really think it is the light cars and trucks that make all the air pollution in the world? Nonroad sources, including locomotives and marine vessels, recreational vehicles, and lawn and garden equipment comprise a significant portion of emissions and smog in the transportation. So why doesnt the government go after the commercial sector .. its simple ... its easier to make laws for us and take owr money
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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8/24/2007
18:22:02
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Yep. And aircraft exhaust, too
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2007
10:17:03
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Cars cause half of all mobile source pollution. They are a significant factor, and are being addressed because it's relatively cheap and easy; because car exhaust exposure is much closer physically and chronically to humans than stack exhaust and airplane exhaust; and correlation has been found between people who live closest to high levels of car exhaust (cities) and new asthma cases.
You are completely wrong about air pollution not causing asthma, you need to educate yourself if you think otherwise. Second-hand smoke is also a major factor. Both her parents smoked, and have quit. Her exposure is less and her asthma improved because of it.
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Forseti
Dodge Dakota
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8/28/2007
17:46:22
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Bob .. go to this site and read the first paragraph and then read the whole page and tell me where is says that air pollution is the CAUSE of asthma http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/Asthma/Asthma_Causes.html
I have asthma too and I have really bad days sometimes but I don't go pointing to a guy smoking and claim he gave me the CHRONIC DISEASE.
And please can you point me to the data that says cars cause half of the mobile air pollution ? Do you have a .gov website ? Where did your "correlation" information come from ?
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2007
08:54:39
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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http://www.epa.gov/otaq/invntory/overview/pollutants/index.htm
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/invntory/overview/pollutants/hydrocarbons.htm
From your link: "The list below gives some examples of things that can bring on asthma symptoms.
Air pollution"
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/cleanairforlife.cfm?subnav=da_asthma
http://www.epa.gov/airnow/health-prof/Asthma_Flyer_Final.pdf
I never said that air pollution is THE cause of asthma - there is no one known cause alone. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that it causes asthma attacks, as does smoking. I would not hesitate to blame a smoker for causing an asthma attack (or raising the chance of getting lung cancer dramatically).
http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/asthma/Smoking_and_Asthma.htm
http://www.kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alcohol/tobacco/smoking_asthma.html
http://www.ash.org.uk/html/passive/html/asthma.html
"Parental smoking was a causal factor of asthma in children and the prevalence of asthma increased with the number of smokers in the home."
You would do well to keep any smokers away from you. My wife's asthma is so vastly improved since getting away from smoking (and she exercises 3x a week), that she has not had an attack since leaving her parents' home.
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Forseti
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2007
19:11:32
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Gee .. stay up late researching that info ? I'm going to let the thread die ..... You want to be for a nationwide emissions test then fine thats your choice but I bet you will be the first one here bitching when a minimum wage moron fails your truck for what you will claim is no reason. I worked as a asst. manager for a emissions station in Tampa, Florida and I can tell you that the system that was used was only 20% accurate we had cars dumping a ton on smoke pass the test then choke everyone out as they left. And the ones that didn't pass just drove around the building into another lane then pass with no problems. The state/government doesn't give a s@it about the air quality .... they only care about getting their cut of the profit .... and in Tampa that was $7 for every $10 test ...........
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2007
21:55:54
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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>> I guess you'd better tell my wife that her asthma doesn't exist, and isn't aggravated by smog. <<
What? Where did that come from? Only the most tenuous of connections to this post.
This is an example of problem solving at it's worst. Something our gov't is pretty darn good at.
The first question you have to ask is, "Is air pollution a nation wide problem?" The answer is a resounding "NO"! If it's not a nationwide problem, why do we need a nationwide answer?
According to the numbers quoted above, less than 50% of the US population live with "unhealthfull" levels of air pollution (whatever that means). So, we're going to mandate this new testing program that will supposedly benifit less than 50% of the population.
But those people who live in areas that have "unhealthfull" air currently have a testing and control program mandated by the EPA. What will this new program do that the EPA program doesn't? Therefore, that less than 50% of the populatiuon will recieve NO BENIFIT from this new program.
The other >50% of the population who have healthy air, will have to pay for a program that provides NO BENIFIT.
In summary, it's a program that will cost billions of dollars from every American who drives a car, and will provide no benifit to the people who pay for it.
So, why is this on the table? Simple - ASA members will reap Billions of $$$$ through required testing. Those $$$ will come from your pocket. For which you will recieve NOTHING.
So, Bob, now that you've ridden your high horse around for a while, are you still an advocate of this new program? Next you'll be telling us , "It's for the children".
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
08:51:48
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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At least half of the US lives in urban areas, where air pollution is a major problem, and that percentage is growing. So it DOES affect most of us, and therefore is worth addressing nationally.
"it's a program that will cost billions of dollars from every American who drives a car" Billions? From EVERY American? Wow. I guess I missed that bout of inflation. We're all billionaires? My vehicle inspection costs $29 a year. I'd have to drive for over 3.4 million years to pay a billion dollars.
"I bet you will be the first one here bitching when a minimum wage moron fails your truck for what you will claim is no reason." First of all, I have more respect for anyone who works for an honest living rather than call them a 'minimum wage moron'. Second, My car failed for the first time in 15 years in 2006 for slightly elevated NOx emissions. I did not bitch. I knew that meant something was wrong with the car that I should fix. Sure enough, I found it was running too warm due to 1/2 of the radiator fins being missing. I replaced the radiator and it passed easily. So to me there was great benefit from that test, just in not breaking down, let alone not polluting as much.
I don't see why anyone would object to cleaner air.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
17:35:57
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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You still don't get it, do you?
Nobody objects to cleaner air. You'de be a moron to do so. That's not the point.
But only a true liberal would approve of another huge nationwide gov't program that affects everybody and provides no benifits to the people who pay for it.
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liberal ?
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
18:13:08
|  RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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.boB - What's with the liberal bashing ? Only an idiot would think that is what liberals want. I'm not happy with either of the major political parties; as far as I'm concerned they've both sold out to lobbiers throwing money around - instead of being true to their principles. You've obviously been listening too much to Rush Limbaugh and his cohorts, who just love bashing the other side without reason. Like a lynch mob, that just doesn't think. The asthma link is much clearer than you acknowledge. Too bad you don't understand what "unhealthful" means, perhaps you should further your education !
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
19:01:31
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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OK, explain - exactly - what "unhealthfull" means in this context. NoX? Particulates? CO? I bet you can't do it either. I know I can't, and I know a lot about health.
That's the problem with big gov't types who come up with these programs to "help" us. They use vauge terms with no clear definition in an attempt to sell us on the idea. They just say something nebulous and hope you don't ask too many questions.
And I'm with you, I don't like any politicians. I think they're pretty much all crooks and can't be trusted. Liberals are all for big gov't, and big gov't programs to help us. Conservatives are the opposite. Guess which one I am?
Get back to the subject - this new proposed program. You gotta ask a couple of questions. 1. Who pays? A: You do. 2. Who benifits? A: You don't. What else do you really need to know? It's not about who has asthma, who lives where, who you voted for, or what your last smog test result was.
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Hey Bob
Dodge Dakota
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8/30/2007
19:05:23
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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you are the most uptight dink on this forum. Most of your responses over the years have be from a selfcentered and self rightous position. You don,t like modified vehicles and you want the goverment to inforce your point of view-very liberal and somewhat commie. So much for a free america, right Bob? The goverment can,t do anything correct so do,nt let them install another costly program that will have holes in it. Just say No, Bob. And take a chill pill before you blow a gasket.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2007
08:57:32
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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You people are really wacko. We're talking about vehicle design, testing, performance and ways to engineer them to run more cleanly and reduce health risks. How does this become a political philosophy debate, when these issues affect ALL of us the same way? OK, so I guess I'll have to clarify for you:
The Clean Air Act benefits EVERYONE. Clean air is not just a regional issue. Local heavy exposure affects those in cities more, but the pollution affects us all, as it travels hundreds of miles. And .boB, if you read the articles, you would know the details - HC and particulates are the biggest risk to those with asthma, and are specific proven triggers.
As for size of gov't, guess what? Federal government has grown more and faster under Republicans than any other leadership. Reagan pledged to cut government, but added 36,000 employees in his first term. Bush has wiped out a surplus and brought us the largest federal government ever, with the highest deficit and national debt ever. Clinton took a deficit in 1993 and brought it to a surplus in 1999, and also started paying down the national debt for the first time in 60 years. I have no use for any of these people, and it's laughable that anyone would call me a liberal. As for vehicle modifications, I have made them myself. All I have posted here are warnings that they are illegal in some states, and some are dentrimental to everyone's health. I never said I "don't like them." I have modified older vehicles to get up to 6 mpg more with no harmful effects. People are free to do what they want, they just should know the consequences to themselves and others before acting.
Seems like those who can't discuss things calmly are the 'uptight dinks'. 8) 8)
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2007
14:44:25
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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>> The Clean Air Act benefits EVERYONE. <<
See, that's exactly what I'v been saying all along. The new propesed clean air act won't benifit anyone!
Currently, some areas require a smog test every year because their air quality is poor, and needs to be cleaned up. And that's a good thing. But there are many areas in the US that have good clean air, and don't need a gov't program to monitor cars.
It's all about the ASA demanding testing for every vehicle in the US. This is a huge cash cow that they're trying to cash in on. Nothing more than that.
Anytime you see a program that affects everyone and is supposed to benifit everyone, you should be very suspiscious. There are very few programs that will positivly benifit 300,000,000+ people over 3.5M+ square miles. Do the people of Miami, FL, have the exact same needs as the people of Pine Junction, CO?
The current EPA programs takes these variables into account. For example, the only place that has a smog test in CO is the Denver area. Everywhere else has such clean air that the smog program isn't needed. It's a waste of tax dollars and pocket dollars. That determination is made on health based air quality standards. Health based - that's the key. If you already have healthy air, why do you need a gov't program to test your car every year?
The ASA wants to change that so they can get the bux. It really is that simple.
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liberal ?
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2007
16:04:11
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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.boB - you loose that bet. NOX, particulates, and CO are all unhealthful. I see Bob Lincoln has already strightened out your misconceptions about conservatives. Bush has done exactly what he says, increased the size and strength of the federal government while vastly increasing our debt to rediculous levels. He's also made extreme efforts to centralize power in the executive branch; a real bogus power grab.
Your proctologist called. He found your head.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/31/2007
21:41:40
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Of course those are unhealthfull in high concentrations; everybody knows that. But read the statement, "approximately 150 million people live in U.S. counties with unhealthful levels of pollution." What does that mean? Exactly? This is a scientific discussion, and should be understood under scientific terms.
Those unhealthfull conditions are stated by the American Lung Association. Did you go and read the cited report? No? Then you don't know exactly what it means. From years of reading reports and studies I can tell you that things don't always mean what you think it means.
I'll ask these two questions for the last time, then I'll shut up. If you can't answer them, you should shut up, too. Whenever you're faced with a new gov't program that supposed to help you, you should ask these two basic questions.
Who pays for it?
Who benifits?
If you can't answer them, you need to do some more homework. "I'm from the government. I'm here to help you".
As for Bush - don't care. I'm not going to enter that dead end discussion.
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