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liberal ?
Dodge Dakota
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9/01/2007
08:46:07
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 Subject: RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Sounds like it's you who should do more homework. "Aproximately 150 million people live in counties with unhealthful levels of pollution" means that the people in those counties are at higher risk for various lung and heart diseases. Not that all will get that; but we will see an increased prevalence of ailments at those locations. Understand now ?
I'm not going to play your typical, phony conservative bait and switch game posed in your precious 2 questions. We were discussing how you are wrongly pointing the finger at liberals; while the phony conservative Bush has increased government size and spending much more than all the liberals put together. I can see why you'd rather shut up than address that issue, as it appears indefensible - but don't tell me to shut up. In spite of Bush, some of us still enjoy free speach.
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facts
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2007
09:02:43
|  RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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We've racked up over 9 trillion in debt since the American revolution. More than half of that is from the Bush administrations, add in Reagan too and we're up to responsibility for 70% of a ridiculous amount of debt. From just 3 republican administrations. Maybe it's time to stop the liberal bashing, and take a good hard look at the spending policies of the republicans. You got owned on this one, ".boB" !
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2007
17:37:09
|  RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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It has nothing to do with republican vs. democrat, Bush vs. Clinton, whatever. Liberals like bigger gov't, conservatives like smaller gov't. No matter what party the belong to, or who we're talking about, that's the general rule. So if what you say is true, then the current gov't is liberal.
You've got to remember that these are all politicians. Most of them are lawyers. You can't trust any of them any further than you can spit. That's why you have to look at everything they do with a jaundiced eye. What's the real agenda? What's this really mean? What's going to happen - really - when they get their way?
No matter what name you call them by, it's a Sh!t Sandwich or a Giant Douche.
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liberal ?
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2007
16:08:39
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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With a name like .boB, not surprising you've got it backwards. The current government is anything but liberal, with the executive branch grabbing extra power with signing statements, etc. Not to mention resticting freedom, they want to know everything you take out of the library even. Only a bonehead like you could think this government is liberal. You're just assigning the spending label to the wrong people.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2007
09:33:43
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Politics aside (and please write to Bush and Cheney and call them liberal - Limbaugh, too - they need a good laugh right now), the areas that you claim have clean air and don't need pollution testing or controls: they will be fouled shortly if controls are not enacted now. We as a people do NOT want the relatively clean (and it's not pristine) air of Colorado or other places to get like LA or Phoenix before someone decides it has been damaged and needs to be cleaned up. Why ruin it and then try to fix it, if it can be kept clean?
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2007
17:42:10
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Read through the EPA clean air program. It does exactly what you think it should do. Carefull monitoring of the air, and provisions to implement changes at certain air quality levels. Not just cars, and not just air.
Here's something we might be forgetting. As Americans, we've been concious of and working to improve our environment for more than 30 years. For some of the people on this board, I suspect that's longer than they have been alive. Cleaner cars, power plants, manufacturing facitites, etc. Heck, even cleaner lawn mowers! As Americans, we've done a splendid job. Generally speaking, our environment is cleaner now than it has been since the Industrial Revolution. Been to Asia lately?
The clean air act started to effect car design back in the 70's - more than 30 years ago! Cars built in the last 20 years don't spew near the pollution they did in the past. Look around you on the way home from work. How many cars do you see older than, say, '90 do you see? The vast majority of cars are running cleaner now then ever before. And look at the changes in fuel. Even diesel fuel is cleaner.
Our air is so clean, that many areas - like CO - have recently discontinued their smog checks. The percentage of unclean cars is so small that it's just not an issue. It's not cost effective. All this was done under the Clean Air act, and adminstered by the EPA. Those geographic areas used to be under the smog program because the air didn't meet standards. Now they do.
Other areas - like Phoenix, LA, NYC - don't meet federal standards and probably never will (in my lifetime) But even they have gotten better. I remember many days driving down I-15 to Riverside and seeing the road dissapear into a brown cloud. Don't see that much anymore.
It's constantly drilled into our heads by the media and their friends that we're all killing the planet. SUV's are to blame. There's death everywhere. yada, yada, yada. Blah, blah, blah. The fact is it's just not entirely true. Stick your head up and look around, don't just listen to what they tell you. Look out your window. Visibility here in Colorado Springs is often >50 miles. There are still plenty of areas that need work; but on a whole, we've done a pretty good job.
Do we really need another gov't program run by another gov't agency to do exactly the same thing, but more expensivly and more inefficiently? If passed, areas like Pine Junction, CO, will have to get a smog check again. But what about areas like Phoenix? Two smog checks? Two layers of Beaurocracy?
Who pays? You do.
Who benifits? The ASA.
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Hey Bob
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2007
06:14:33
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Bob l. and the liberal Need to be good green weanys and sell their trucks, get a goverment apart. next to work and ride bikes like other good commies in other countrys. Thats what they are pushing for. Goverment control of every move you make all day, every day. So much for freedom with you guys selling out to the feds a every turn.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2007
08:54:53
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Hey bob is an ignorant jackass if he really posted the above. I'm for trimming government, not expanding it, like the so-called conservatives are now doing. But being an engineer, I'd like to see an engineering solution to making cars cleaner while not sacrificing performance. It absolutely can be done.
As for CO visibility, if you can see 50 miles, that's down from what it used to be. There are areas there where visibility used to be 80-120 miles. And the reason that auto pollution still needs to be addressed is that we have twice the number of cars on the road that we did in 1970. And that number is still growing. Imagine the effect if the executive branch actually enforced our immigration laws and got rid of 12 million illegals. Then you'd see fewer cars and cleaner air.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2007
13:45:06
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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>> As for CO visibility, if you can see 50 miles, that's down from what it used to be. <<
That's from my office in the northern part of CS, across the center of the city, all the way down to the mountains SW of Peublo. About 50 miles. You can see them pretty clearly most mornings, so I expect actual physical visibility is somewhat higher.
I'm sure that's down from what it was 100 years ago. But most definatly up from what it was just 10-12 years ago. We don't have inversion days anymore. I remember what air quality was 10 years ago.
from the top of Pikes Peak you can see to the collegiate peaks to the west, and to the horizon in the east. At least 70-80 miles. 120 miles? I don't know. Not from anywhere on the ground. I don't fly so I can't really say.
Remember that all the western states are significantly affected by weather. In the afternoon the haze picks up and the ozone from lightening rises dramatically. Although it hasn't been bad this year, some years smoke from wild fires is terrible! During the Hayman fire visibility was down to about 10 miles.
None of these things will be affected by smog checks on cars.
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liberal ?
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2007
17:28:45
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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"Hey Bob" - perhaps you should go back and reread this thread ? I never once defended the emissions testing; just objected to ".boB" thinking that it's the liberals who are to blame for big government spending. Republicans are much more to blame, whether you like it or not. Calling people "commies" just shows how you've been subjected to the brainwashing of jackasses like Rush Limbaugh. Learn to think for yourself, and anylize the issues - instead of thoughtlessy calling people names.
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Hi-liberal
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2007
12:33:04
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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you have been brainwashed by the lame liberal herd animals. Unlike you- I have thought this out. Federal programs always fail-always cost tax payers more than the libs. say it will-and always expand to take control of areas they were never intended to. And they are NEVER ended. A national program will cost millions to build testing stations, Millions to staff, and millions of loss time for the taxpayer waiting in line to get their vehicles tested. Several state went to this and was a costly failure. One state system was that if the car failed you had to repair the car, BUT there was a limit on how much you had to spend. If it still failed - you showed your repair bill and you got your cer. No inprovement in the output. So- you "jackasses" (thats what you called Rush Limbaugh-Right?) live on with your "commie" dream of federal control of your life and in your case-Mind. Its like talking to a brick, so, goodbye!
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liberal ?
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2007
17:21:41
|  RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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You're ranting senselessly - and didn't respond to any of my points. Typical of how those who've been brainwashed behave. The more you say, the more foolish you look.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2007
08:46:56
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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The program here in MA is a huge success. Air is cleaner than 25 years ago, as measured by concentrations of pollutants, not simply looking out the window. The inspection program does NOT cost the state money, it's a break-even, and in fact the inspection station gets part of the proceeds. Yes, if a vehicle fails, and you spend up to $200 to fix it and it still fails, you get a *ONE-TIME* waiver. If it fails the next time, goodbye. And the $200 has to be spent and documented from a professional mechanic, so you can't hack out $200 in phony repairs in your driveway and then get a sticker.
This is hardly a communist plot. Look at the biggest communist nations and see what their air quality is like. 8)
Name-calling, with no reasoned, *FACTUAL* argument, is the sign of limited intellect and makes the person irrelevant.
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GB2000
GenIII
9/07/2007
11:32:26
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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It may be a break even plan AFTER the state/federal government spends all our tax dollars on setting up the stations, hiring all the staff, etc...but it's definitely not break-even in the beginning. That stuff costs money...money the state/federal government already can't afford without reaching into our pockets. I'm with .boB on this one.
Those who need it most already have testing in place and won't benefit any more than they currently do. Those who don't need it will have to pay for it to be setup and won't benefit from it nearly as much.
Seems pretty unnecessary to me...although if they could do something about all the damn ragweed/pollen, I'd be forever grateful. That sh!t murders my allergies.
...and quite honestly, just in MY lifetime, which is quite short compared to many of you, I've watched this world turn to complete and utter sh!t. My friend and I were discussing it earlier while on a routine 20 mile bike ride (how's that for saving gas/reducing emissions?!?!) and one of his questions was, "Do you think it we're going to make it to 40 at the rate things are going in this world?" He was totally serious. Unfortunately, our world is so far gone, it's pretty much beyond repair...for now, we might as well just grab our ankles and kiss our asses goodbye.
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GB2000
GenIII
9/07/2007
11:37:50
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Oh, here's another lil question on this topic...
A lot of people are discussing the polar ice caps melting due to global warming and how if they keep up at this rate, the Earth with be flooded.
How is this possible? Wouldn't the water level DROP? I mean...fill up a glass of water clear up to the top and place it in your freezer. When you check on it after a couple hours, the water will have spilled over as it froze. So if that's the case, the water level should drop as the ice caps are displacing more of the Earth's water than if they were in a liquid state. Or is this where the salt from the ocean comes into play? Seriously question...just curious if anyone knows since we're on a kick bout pollution and stuff.
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Same coin
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2007
12:35:39
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Bob and liberal are two sides of the same coin. One guy says that nation wide testing would be costly and a time consuming, leading to lower productivity. Bob says that he likes the program and that we all must suffer for Bobs goal. Bob says that the program in his state works very well. Good Bob, BUT to say that the air is cleaner because of that program, is a big leap. 25 years ago is when everyone was switching to fuel injection. That alone, would help. Many states programs do NOT have a one time Exemp. You can come back time and time again. Just bring your receipt and the "fee". The new program would be biannual. So even with a "one time" exemption-Your vehicle could be out of compliance for 4 years. Good program, Bob. As for liberal-If you do not agree with his mindset, you are brainwashed. If you can not see the great true that only he holds-you can not think-period. Liberal states that Rush Limbaugh is a jackass then gets upset when someone calls him a commie (stalinist is a better word-right Bob?) for wanting Federal control of life in america. One guy says that federal programs always cost more that washington promised- history backs this up. read the congressional record, Bob. He said that federal programs always overgrown the original plan- remember the great welfare program of the sixtys? Still here, still growing. Many of the FDR programs(bet you remember those, Bob) are still here and still growning. When we say that the goverment has a long HISTORY of wasting time and our money, its not raving or nonspecific. Its historical record. I know that this falls on stone ears- liberals only hear their own words.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2007
13:46:41
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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You guys are retarded.
If global warming doesn't exist, than why are islands in Indonesia being flooded? Yes, its true. entire islands are being flooded as the water rises. But global warming doesn't exist.
And what about Mt. Kilamanjaro? The snowcaps are melting away as I type, but thats normal right?
And can we get off of the liberal conservative BS? Neither side is absolutely right about everything. People that side with a political party just because they are Democrats or Republicans, are completely mindless and useless as human beings. Think for yourselves people.
With Bush selling 20 billion dollars of weapons to the world (including Saudi Arabia, where 80% of the 9/11 terrorists came from) I'm not really concerned with global warming anymore. I'm worried our president is selling out his own nation to make some money.
So lets all bitch about some emissions testing and let Bush's cronies blow us to hell.
You want to hear the best part?
The human race will not survive much longer due to the genetic problems that we are allowing to be passed down. The male Y chromosome is breaking down and pretty soon there will be no men to reproduce. Cancer, autism, retardation, mental illness, all of that stuff is being passed down among the human race because the religions of the world want every one to have kids because its they're god given right. BS!
The animal kingdom survives by having only the strong reproduce. The human race has been so removed from its natural habitat that it is going down a completly separate evolutionary path that is not constructive to the survival of our race. GOOD BYE!
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Gee Bob
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2007
16:00:35
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Full of that eastern garbage, eh Bob? Goverment records show the unrestrained growth of PROGRAMS for our own good. Specific enough for you, Bob? Look them up for yourself so you can not say I twiked them. Federal programs always overrun their projected cost to the taxpayer. So would this emmisions program.For you to say that you are not for big goverment-then demand a hold new department, is pretty lame. In western Kansas- there are countys(big countys Bob)that only have Twenty to forty familys in the entire county. they would have to drive over 100 miles just to get to a town with a testing station. A major burden on the taxpayer. Say no to the goverment and keep your east coast believes in the east coast.
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get a clue
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2007
17:09:40
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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To call someone a jackass has some meaning - it means that person is foolish. It sems "liberal ?" is using it correctly in this context.
To call someone a "commie", when no communist tendencies have been implied, is simply derogatory. It makes the person calling the other person a commie look more like a jackass.
If you can't make your argument without using derogatory terms that make no sense, you don't have a valid point.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2007
17:25:55
| RE: Possible nationwide emissions test
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Whaaa!
I have to drive a hundred miles to get my vehicle inspected once every two years, whaaa! Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions.
Isn't welfare and this bogus war in Iraq a huge tax burden? I would assume so since Haliburton has made 17 billion in tax dollars since this war began.
You guys are the biggest problem in america right now. A so-called land of unity is wholly divided on many subjects that affect our nation. Some want to fix problems while others bury their heads in lies and propaganda hoping that it will all just go away. Or in the case of our president, just don't care because they will be dead before any catatrophes happen.
I really hate to think of how future generations(if any exist) will perceive us. I think most of us will be seen as some real dummies.
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