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Meredith
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2007
00:30:50
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 Subject: Won't start randomly
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This may sound odd - but I need all the help I can get. Randomly, I went to turn on my truck (Dodge Dakota 2002 sport king cab) and the lights came on for a moment (but not the engine or any sounds) then the lights died. and I was left sitting in a dead truck... puzzled, I tried turning it on again, and again for the next 5 minutes off and on, it was as if I was turning the key into a lock in a door, nothing "initiated" or "clicked" or "tried to start" it was dead air. - after sitting on my cell phone for about 45 minutes freaking out because I was in the middle of nowhere.... I tried the truck again, and it turned on without any problems whatsoever.. no fighting to turn over, no stalling, no stuttering, no flickering or anything.. acted completely normal. - I went and got the battery and alternator tested at a local Advanced Auto Parts store, and both came back with nothing wrong. I am scared that this will happen randomly again, when I can not afford 45 minutes or so of dead air space while waiting to see if the car will happen to turn on and begin working out of the blue again. I'm at a loss for what is causing this! The only thing unordinary about when it died earlier today that I can think of... was that I had left my cell phone plugged into a ciggarete lighter/charger for a little over an hour. When I came back outside, this was how I found it. Since then, ... I will not charge my cell phone. But people are telling me such a minor thing would not have caused this. I was not on a slope, lights weren't flickering, engine was not "trying to start and just couldnt"..and it wasn't unusually cold outside. The best way I can explain it is.... was turning the key into dead air. And why did it choose to start on its own. *boggle*
Any info would be appreciative, I can not afford to take it to a mechanic to hear their advice and let them run the tests they would probably want to on it at this time.
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QQQ
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2007
10:17:14
| RE: Won't start randomly
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One thing is it has what is called an "automatic shutdown relay" What initially caused the truck not to start I don't know. But whatever it was caused the shutdown relay to activate. It cut power to the fuel pump, and ignition. It takes some time for it to reset itself.(5 or 10 minutes) Has a timer or something. That's why it started after 45 minutes. It reset itself. My personal experience with this is I had a crankshaft sensor go bad, came out of a store, put in the key, tried to start, immediate check engine light. Mine would crank, but wouldn't start. (no power to the ignition-fuel pump-fuel injectors) After I let it sit for 20 minutes (after I tried to start it about 5 times heh) It started right up. Went home and ordered a new sensor as that's what code I had. No problems since. After re-reading your post, It sounds like it wouldn't even crank. Lights died. I assume they died just as you tried to start it? Then I would check all your battery cables for corrosion. I had a camaro do that. Cable was all corroded under the rubber at the connector. It also could be the starter. google denso starter rebuild. It'll give some info. What engine you have? transmission?
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Meredith
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2007
11:18:07
| RE: Won't start randomly
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It's a v8 engine? automatic transmission. That's about all I know on it. A mechanic a few months ago mentioned my c02 (?) sensors were looking pretty bad shape, would these have anything to do with the truck nost starting up at all? part of that.... automatic shutdown relay?
I just finished a 4thousand mile road trip around the states >< - and just had the oil changed on it.. don't really have the money for a bigger tuneup like it could probably use from all that time on the road, it's hard to explain, it's fine on the road, it's just starting, and speeding up, etc are where it runs rough now, I get over 50mph, and it's as normal as any other car.... the fact that I wouldn't start up period is something that I can't rest easily on! I have to leave in 5m inutes... oo what if It doesnt start again.
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little jer
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2007
21:16:53
| RE: Won't start randomly
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I don't think a bad O2 sensor would cause it to act like it did in not getting anything. It could explain why it runs crappy until it gets over 50mph though. Did you also try starting it in neutral too when this happened? Do you have any type of alarm or theft deterrent system attached? I had a problem with such a system that you had to insert a triangular key into the system to start. One day after eating at Carls Jr. I turned the ignition key and got nothing. Long story short, my daughter jiggled the key while I was trying to start it and it came alive and started fine. It was shorting out so I disconnected the system.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
4/15/2007
21:37:59
| RE: Won't start randomly
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I'd say a loose battery connection or a broken cell in the battery. You had the battery tested so it may be ok.
There is also some connections around the battery area where all of the 12V connections tie together that you may want to make sure isn't corroded or loose.
You mentioned NO LIGHTS, like no power at all correct? If so that would not be the shut down relay. It only cuts power to the fuel pump and maybe other engine things but not power to the truck. You should always have headlights, interior lights, etc. If not, it HAS to be a battery thing or a power terminal problem.
Hope this helps.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
09:49:05
| RE: Won't start randomly
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Bad connection at the battery. Try the simplest things first.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
10:35:06
| RE: Won't start randomly
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have someone check all battery and ground conenctions and have the battery load tested.
when this happens, does the clock on the radio loose it's setting?
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Meredith
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
11:00:11
| RE: Won't start randomly
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Oh you're not gonna believe this guys.. I go to turn it on one morning - and all I get is this loud rythmical clicking.(sounds like a bug zapper almost)- that's all it will do till i turn off the car. the lights work, it's not throwing any codes, but the engine won't turn on, all I get is the clicking.- I had the battery and the alternator both checked at a Local Advanaced Auto Parts Store 2 days ago, and both checked out fine... I don't know what else this could be, or how to go about diagnosing it or fixing it!!
Day one : go to turn on the car and it's completely dead, no lights, no noise.. dead air. within 45 minutes, it magicly starts up just fine without a problem.
Day two : getting lights, radio, windows, etc, but engine is a no-go, all I get is the loud clicking noise till I turn off the car. It is currently stuck rather permenantly in my mom's driveway till I find a way to fix this.
Loud rythmical clicking... like.. you could hear it from inside the house upstairs. (ppl thought it was a woodpecker gone crazy or something)
Going out to check what the connections look like around the battery now.. not entirely sure what I'm looking for though.
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little jer
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
12:19:41
| RE: Won't start randomly
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the chattering or clicking is what you get when your battery is dead. But since it starts later and was tested good I would suspect the battery terminals are not making good contact. Sometimes they may not look corroded on the outside but a corroded layer might be on the inside of the connector preventing good contact. I would take them both off and use a battery terminal brush that cleans the terminals and inside of the battery cable terminal to clean them and make new contacts.
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QQQ
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
13:29:41
| RE: Won't start randomly
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If after cleaning your cables, if it doesn't work, then it's your starter. (I'm almost sure it's the starter)
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml
http://toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137193
Read some of these, and call around to find someone to knows how to fix the starter.
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
15:31:56
| RE: Won't start randomly
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Common of a bad battery also, some will test ok and work ok - after a load is pulled through it.
Starters generally won't click, sounds like bad battery, dirty terminals, or bad connections.
I tend to eliminate connections (other than the terminals) because you would have to have several to mimic your conditions.
My guess is battery and/or terminals.
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little jer
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
15:45:27
| RE: Won't start randomly
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correct me if I'm wrong, but when the battery doesn't have enough power to turn over the starter it is the solenoid that is chattering. If the battery isn't bad or the terminals dirty it could be a bad solenoid. even though it is bad it could still work occasionally. I can attest to that as a neighbor had that chattering every morning and he'd leave and come back in 5 min and it would finally turn over.
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2007
16:02:45
| RE: Won't start randomly
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I had almost the exact same problem on my S-10. It turned out to be a melted wire harness that was running to the starter and was grounding out. But as most of these guys said before take your battery in to have it checked under a load. Ive had batterys checked before and test ok but then I took it to battery warehouse and when they checked it under a load it failed misserably. If the battery is good just make sure all the lines and connections are looking good from your battery to your starter. Last I would pull the starter and have it checked. If all else fails grab the volt meter and start checking the continuity and resistance of wires.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2007
08:26:49
| RE: Won't start randomly
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I guess a lot of you are too young to have had battery or battery connection problems. If the battery load test was OK, then this is a bad connection between battery and starter, usually at the battery clamps. If a very poor connection or very low battery, it will click or even be silent. If a little current gets through, it can make the solenoid almost actuate by fluttering back and forth, and this is the chattering noise. Clean all connections thoroughly and tighten them.
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doh
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2007
08:48:55
| RE: Won't start randomly
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if the battery is over 2 years old replace it
walmart $50
just do it, it's no big deal
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2007
09:09:32
| RE: Won't start randomly
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Actually I was a Chry. tech for 15 yrs. and have seen many internal battery problems do the exact same symptoms.
If she lost everything, headlights, ign., etc. it has to be either the battery itself or the terminals.
Now if she didn't try the headlights and is only referring to the dash lights, then that opens other possibilities.
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little jer
Dodge Dakota
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4/18/2007
18:15:14
| RE: Won't start randomly
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How come nobody posts back to let us know what the actual cause was? Enquiring minds want to know. lol
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Meredith
Dodge Dakota
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4/18/2007
18:53:22
| RE: Won't start randomly
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I want to know too!! I found some one to jump my truck after cleaning the connections on and around it? ...and now it's a combined loud clicking along with the engine trying to turn over. it just won't turn over.. but at least it's trying now? and wouldn't before? but it still wont move!! or start!! and that clicking!! I'm gonna cry!!! He's downstairs still trying to jump it right now so this won't make for a very long post... but I'm almost at the end of my rope. /mourns the death of her truck
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Meredith
Dodge Dakota
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4/18/2007
20:13:17
| RE: Won't start randomly
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end of the line.. this is me crying uncle. =/
I have to have it towed to a mechanic and tell them I give up.. left it charging (jumping) for 20 minutes.... tried to start the truck - it tries to turn over and can't... it fights and fights to stay on... and if I revv the engine, it will- second i take my foot off the gas, it's dead agian.. (lights on, dead engine tho)
Any suggestions will better prepare me for the impact a mechanic is going to estimate on what's wrong and how much it will be... so any suggestions are still appreciated.
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4.7onN20
Dodge Dakota
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4/18/2007
23:00:24
| RE: Won't start randomly
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You gave up to easily.
As long as you didnt take it to the Stealership it shouldnt be too expensive.
If it was a small shop I would guess.
Battery $80 + $30 Diag/labor
Cable $20 + $30 Diag/labor
Starter/relay $80 + $60 Diag/labor
Those are around the prices my old shop used to give me but it was just a bunch of grease monkeys not some fancy shop with rice krispy treats in the waiting room. Some shops charge like $40 bucks just for Diagnostic and then $50-$75 hourly. I wish I could charge like that. I could retire by age 35. I still think it was your battery or the cable and I would have replaced both before taking it in. Even if that wasnt the problem your battery isnt going to last too many more years since its already 5 years old.
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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4/19/2007
09:06:55
| RE: Won't start randomly
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It dies when you take your foot off of the gas, because your computer lost the memory and your throttle body is probably dirty.
Barring any real physical motor issues!
Better to pay someone who knows what they are doing, that to guess and keep throwing parts at it.
Ps. Not all dealerships are bad.
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