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darkapple
Dodge Dakota
9/17/2001
13:42:15
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 Subject: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Haven't posted in a while... just enjoying the
'01 4.7 QC 4x4 so much... and no problems at
all so far.....just thought I'd pipe in with an
interesting little tidbit...
Working in the auto industry in Detroit, I have a
few friends in the right places.;-)
Over the weekend, a friend of mine had the
chance to "evaluate" a developement vehicle,
and was told by his supervisor to "havefun".
Well the vehicle in question was a
development vehicle with, you guessed it, a
270 hp 4.7 HO under the hood!!!! :-) This thing
only had 3.55 gears but PULLED oh so much
HARDER than my own 4.7 w/ 3.92 gears.
It also had a VERY throaty exhaust note.... it
had quite a BARK!!!
It also seemed to have a 5speed auto, as it
was shifting what seemed to be four times, so
putting 2 and 2 together (acutally 2 and
3...hehe)... Not sure if it was a 545RFE like in
the '01 and later Grand Cherokees.
Can't really give much details than that, since
one) I don't know much more, and two) being
in the industry, I do respect confidentiality
between colleagues.
Anyhow, this thing should be a BLAST for
those lucky enough to be patient enough to
wait 'til... when it gets released... ;-)
R/T's will definately have reason to run and
hide once the 4.7 HO arrives!!! hehe ;-)
Cheers,
Luc
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kicker01
Dodge Dakota
9/17/2001
15:54:29
|  RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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was it a grand cherokee?
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darkapple
Dodge Dakota
9/17/2001
20:21:04
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Message:
sorry.... it was of course a DAKOTA.
Cheers,
Luc
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swampdak
Gen III
9/17/2001
21:02:26
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Hey darkapple cant you give us a few more details, inquiring minds want to know.Any idea when this will be available to the public?Thanks for the info.
Y2K CC 4.7 AUTO 4X4 3.55 TRAC-LOK SLT K&N 16.35/82.41
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/17/2001
22:33:40
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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According to www.car-truck.com the 4.7HO ended up being rated at 260 HP @ 5100 RPM and 330 ft-lbs @ 3600 rpm. Technically all the 4.7 miltispeed automatics are the same just with different programming to decide weather or not they get a split 2nd gear or an extra overdrive. You won't see the current NV3500 5-speed with this 4.7HO as it is not rated for that much torque and therefore I doubt it would be any faster then the current 5.9 R/T as even if it has an extra 10 HP, it is behind 20 ft-lbs on torque and an extra overdrive gear is only to help feul economy, not acceleration. Plus the 4.7 HO is pretty much a completly tweeked from the factory leaving little room for any more easy power to be found, the 5.9 is like a blank canvas with so much more potential. I have no doubt that they will replace the 5.9 with the HO 4.7 probably next year in the Dakota for it's final year of current design but it's only to improve feul economy, not performance or reliability.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
9/18/2001
15:55:39
| How about 4.7 HO+
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Hersbird - what part of the country are you located in? The Truckin' Nationals are coming up in less than a month here in Phoenix, AZ. I'd be happy to take you for a ride in a 4.7 HO+ version. hehehe
I've been collecting dyno charts from 4.7s and also 5.9s for comparison. You would be amazed at how similar they are. Since they both leave the factory with the same beer barrel intake design.... the hp and torque curves are very much the same. You noticed before that mine looked like the rocky mountains.... the reason you never see that on a 5.9 is because they don't ever have any numbers below 3000 rpm. If you take away everything on my dyno charts below 3000, the 3000 to 5000 profile is exactly the same. Now the difference in the charts is that for most of the 5.9s, the curve falls off at 5000 rpm. Generally they're done. The 4.7 is still making power at that point.
My 4.7 is currently making some decent power to the rear wheels.... torque included...
Currently making 242.2 rwhp and 322.5 rwtq. That equates to about 290 hp and 388 ft-lbs torque at the flywheel. I only have the NV3500 trans in mine. What is the NV3500 supposed to be rated at? In a week or so the hp and torque will take a very dramatic upswing. It should be in the 435 hp and 580 ft-lbs torque range. We'll have to see how long the trans will stand it. Anybody got a good source for Viper 6-speeds? hehehe
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kicker01
Dodge Dakota
9/18/2001
20:13:59
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Dunner, what mods you got bolted on? Dont you have a White CC w/ orange stripes? Got a web page with the dyno charts on it?
'01 rc 4.7 5spd
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/18/2001
20:29:24
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Duner why don't the 360 charts start below 3000 rpm? I think it is important info, and the factory curves show down to 1500 rpm. I'm sure the 5-speed 4.7 is near the 5.9 curves, especially in HP, but how does a 4.7 auto compare? You also say the 5.8 drops off after 500 rpm, does it actually fall below the stock 4.7 curve? or is it just lower then it's peak? The factory curves sure seem to show the 5.9 still making almost 300 FT-lbs at 5000 rpm which is more then the 4.7 makes at it's peak. The NV3500 that is rated at 300 ft-lbs input torque. There is a HD version that is good for 340 ft-lbs. Of course they will take more power, but not in severe conditions and long term without excessive warranty claims. Obviously a 4.7 HO rated at 260 HP at 5100 rpm is making more torque then a 5.9 would at 5100 rpm or the 5.9 would be rated higher then 250 HP, but what about up to that point, we know the 5.9 makes more torque and horsepower at the 3-4000 range or else the 4.7 HO would have a higher torque rating then 330 ft-lbs. I'm sure the 4.7 (HO or not) is a good motor, but it is not necessarily better then the 360 performance wise, just emission and economy which in the long run is more important to a company then tire frying torque. To me I could care less if my emissions are 20% better or if I get even 50% better economy, I would have kept my 40+ MPG 150HP lightweight neon if thats what I wanted. I love the around town, stoplight bursts provided by my R/T, and love the ease of crusing and launching the automatic. wasn't it your stock R/T CC that ran in the 14's, I don't hear of any stock 4.7 CC's that have ever done that, and it's not just you, High Performance Mopar's test of a stock R/T CC ran 15.1 over and over, consistant as a timex they called it. They said giong over the tune and a better day would surely resulted in a high 14 sec run. I am really waiting to see a few full production Grand Cherokee's with the 4.7 HO tested, I'm here to predect now they will be worse then the 5.9 limiteds were running stock (mid 15's).
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
9/18/2001
21:21:34
| 4.7 & 5.9 Dyno Charts
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Yeah, my truck is a White CC with Ruby Red stripes. It looks orange in some photos or under street lights.
For mods... right now I have a custom pcm, K&N filter, MorFlow 3" catalytic convertor, Mopar 3" Cat-back with a Flowmaster 70 series and also a prototype fuel rail cooling system. On the dyno sheets, that's what the reference about the cooler is all about.
I composited a dyno chart from a 5.9 with bolt-on mods with my latest chart here:
http://members.home.net/cartel5/duner/Dyno47_59.jpg
On this chart I composited some other 5.9 charts with mine. The curves are a lot closer and the trucks should be pretty even with mine in performance..... I would guess anyway. I'm not positive exactly what mods they have compared to the first one:
http://members.home.net/cartel5/duner/AdamDunerTravis.jpg
Take a look and tell me what you think?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
9/18/2001
21:43:29
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Hersbird, I'm not exactly sure why the dyno charts for the automatics always start at 3000 rpm. I think it must be that you can't get the trans to stay in 3rd on the dyno. If you floor it below that rpm, it will always downshift into 2nd and you won't be able to see it anyway. If you get a chance to take a look at those dyno charts.... notice how touchy the hp curve is compared to the torque curve once you get into the higher rpm range. Just a little bit of a drop in torque up high, really makes the hp curve plummet. I don't know where Dodge came up with their hp/torque charts for the brochures, but I can tell you for sure that they aren't very accurate! Remember that the hp and torque will be the exact same number at 5252 rpm. If the 5.9 was making 300 ft-lbs of torque at that rpm.... it would be making 300 hp then too! I would love to see a dyno chart from a 4.7 automatic. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before one shows up.
As far as my '98 R/T..... It's a complete shame that all of them didn't run as well as that thing did! I really wish I would have been able to keep it to see what it might have done with a few minor mods! I haven't seen any other stock R/T perform as well as it did. I just wish I knew what was different about it that made it run so good.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/19/2001
20:35:15
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Well my 2000 RC R/T must be one of the fast ones as well. I am not even close to a 1/4 mile track anymore but I used to have a 93 Dakota that ran 14.9 at Sears Point. This new truck is much faster in all gears and rpms then that 93, and it gets more traction as well. I would never believe it is not in the 14's and for a really noticible improvement over my 93 I would think it's about good for a 14.5 stock. I'm sure your right about the 3000 RPM thing, I guess these dyno's can't handle the torque while in first gear. I didn't think the 5.9 was still making 300 at 5252 but more like 290 at 5000. It could easilly drop to the 230 range by 5252 making the horsepower 230 at that point (remember that's at the flywheel, not the rear tires). I need to see if there are any dyno's around me as I would be interested in stock numbers from my truck.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
9/19/2001
21:05:35
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Hersbird, did you get a chance to check out those dyno charts in the above post? Those 5.9 numbers are with a number of mods. My guess is that a stock 5.9 would be putting out in the neighborhood of 150 hp and 150 ft-lbs of torque at 5252 rpm. Besides, isn't that about where the stock rev-limiter is set? The stock curve will very dramatically drop off when you start getting above 4500 or so. I've yet to see a totally stock 5.9 dyno chart. People generally won't spend the money fora dyno run until they think they're starting to make some power. It'd be great if you could get a dyno run with it. I have done numberous searches looking for dyno charts online and only ended up with lots of turbo'd Hondas and Toyotas.
So if you would get a dyno run from yours..... all we would need to do is talk somebody with a 4.7 automatic into getting one. Then we could actually compare apples to apples.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
9/20/2001
00:18:59
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Hey darkapple, do you know if or when this will be in the dakotas? My chevy pos s10 will be comming off lease late July 2002, and if I have to, I could wait a couple of months or so if the'll put it in the 2003's but if their not I could benifet from the awesome sale prices for a later 2002.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
9/20/2001
00:19:48
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Hey darkapple, do you know if or when this will be in the dakotas? My chevy pos s10 will be comming off lease late July 2002, and if I have to, I could wait a couple of months or so if the'll put it in the 2003's but if their not I could benifet from the awesome sale prices for a later 2002.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/20/2001
16:04:36
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Duner, you say a stock 5.9 would be about 150HP at the wheels at 5252 rpm. This would mean the PCM, headers, TB, and cold air would be good for about 35-40hp over stock. I'm not sure they would result in that much gain. This would put stock HP peak at the wheels in the 180-185 range, based on your 150 at 5252 estimate. I think most 2000 RT's are 200-210 stock at the wheels and I've heard of one guy on the R/T site that got 220 at the wheels with only a cold air kit. My guess for HP at 5252 was based on the flywheel measurement. I have little doubt that the stock 360 makes 250 hp as claimed by Dodge at the flywheel. I also think HP curves only lose about 25-30 HP on the way to 5252, which maybe the 230 estimate is a little high, more like 220 I guess. The difference between the 220 number I get and the 150 number you get is that I'm talking flywheel and your talking wheel.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
9/20/2001
16:47:10
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Yes, I was talking about rear wheel numbers when I said 150 at that 5252 rpm. Sorry for the confusion. Where is the rev-limiter set at on a stock 5.9 R/T?
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darkapple
Dodge Dakota
9/25/2001
13:15:09
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Message:
clevite77,
to try and answer your question, 2003 likely
won't bring the 270hp 4.7 in the Dakota (i'm
guessing we'd see it in a Jeep GC first). 2004
is the more likely target for some more "grunt"
in our little daks... ;-)
some extra bit on info based on my ride in the
HO dak: midrange very strong, shifts roughly
100-200 rpm higher.
this is what i've gathered.... please don't take it
as set in stone...
cheers
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/25/2001
18:51:46
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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The HO 4.7 will be in the Jeep Grand Cherokee this year, 2002. I think they are on the lots as we speak. A GC with the overland package automatically gets the HO 4.7 and it is also an option on the Limiteds.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
9/25/2001
19:36:55
| RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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That HO 4.7 is only $520 list more then a standard 4.7. That's a good deal, to bad they don't put it on the Dakota. There also seems to be some confusion on what the actual HP on the HO is. The jeep site has pricing, but doesn't list the specs, carpoint lists 260 for the Overland and 265 for the Limited, www-car-truck.com says 260 (which I beleive them to be most reliable on such things)
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Felix
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/23/2004
03:10:31
|  RE: Rode in a 270hp 4.7 HO.....
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Message:
Mopar & Truck-Guys,
On November 19th 2002, I purchase a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 w 5.9 L engine...BTW, it was my very first truck, I was more worried about our brutal upstate winters than anything else. This was definitely an impulse purchase... A month later I realized the mistake I had made, by not waiting another month or so...In 2002 they put the Hemi's in the 2500 first, with winter approaching...I got talked into getting the 2003 5.9 L 1500, I really did like the Dodge Ram design. OK, I've have been reading how bad this motor is for over a year now...Can someone give me three things to do w this 5.9 to improve my hp & mpg...I was told by my local Dodge Dealer, that even if I purchase Cat-back, Flowmaster dual exhaust systems etc......The catalytic converter would prevent this, and I'd be wasting money!!! They even slamed the Ram-Air breather system too. Only one Midas shop promised me a noticeable improvement with regards to my hp & mpg problem w duall 2.5" to 3" exaust system...
SUFFER MY IGNORANCE ON THIS MATTER, AND SET ME STRAIGHT....SURE I CAN PONY UP 12,000...AND BUY THE HEMI, BUT I'M DETERMINED TO STICK WITH THIS TRUCK FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN IT IS MY FIRST TRUCK!!!
BTW, I HAVE BOUGHT NOTHING BUT CARS SINCE I WAS 16 YEARS OLD, FROM SPORT TO LUXURY CARS...I HAVE 1997 GTP ORDERED BRAND NEW, AND STORED IN MY GARAGE AS I TYPE...TRUCKS ARE A WHOLE DIFFERENT ANIMAL...
APPRECIATE SERIOUS COMMENTS,
THANKS,
STUCK ON STUPID
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Felix
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/23/2004
03:31:40
| STUCK ON STUPID - Dodge Ram 1500 5.9 L Help
IP: Logged
Message:
Mopar & Truck-Guys,
On November 19th 2002, I purchase a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 w 5.9 L engine...BTW, it was my very first truck, I was more worried about our brutal upstate winters than anything else. This was definitely an impulse purchase... A month later I realized the mistake I had made, by not waiting another month or so...In 2002 they put the Hemi's in the 2500 first, with winter approaching...I got talked into getting the 2003 5.9 L 1500, I really did like the Dodge Ram design. OK, I've have been reading how bad this motor is for over a year now...Can someone give me three things to do w this 5.9 to improve my hp & mpg...I was told by my local Dodge Dealer, that even if I purchase Cat-back, Flowmaster dual exhaust systems etc......The catalytic converter would prevent this, and I'd be wasting money!!! They even slamed the Ram-Air breather system too. Only one Midas shop promised me a noticeable improvement with regards to my hp & mpg problem w duall 2.5" to 3" exaust system...
SUFFER MY IGNORANCE ON THIS MATTER, AND SET ME STRAIGHT....SURE I CAN PONY UP 12,000...AND BUY THE HEMI, BUT I'M DETERMINED TO STICK WITH THIS TRUCK FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN IT IS MY FIRST TRUCK!!!
BTW, I HAVE BOUGHT NOTHING BUT CARS SINCE I WAS 16 YEARS OLD, FROM SPORT TO LUXURY CARS...I HAVE 1997 GTP ORDERED BRAND NEW, AND STORED IN MY GARAGE AS I TYPE...TRUCKS ARE A WHOLE DIFFERENT ANIMAL...
APPRECIATE SERIOUS COMMENTS,
THANKS,
STUCK ON STUPID
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