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General Dakota Board
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
 
3/26/2006
14:37:50
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 Subject: True Synthetics vs. "Fake" Synthetics
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__________________
True Synthetic Lubricants vs. "Fake" Synthetic Lubricants
Many have asked - What is the difference?
Answer - The difference is the BASE OILS !!!
Groups IV (PAO) and V "TRUE" Synthetics = Natural Gas Base
Group III Hydrocracked "FAKE" Synthetics = Crude Oil Base
Natural Gas (Synthetic Base Oil) vs. Crude Oil (Petroleum Base Oil)
Methane - commonly known as Natural Gas (the base component of a Group IV Synthetic Oil) - is a simple hydrocarbon made up of one carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms: CH4. It generally is assumed to be of biological origin, the result of microbial processes. A simple and PURE base which provides for "sameness" and SUPERIOR predetermined performance.
The problem with Crude Oil (the base component of a Group III "Fake" Synthetic Oil) is that it contains hundreds of different types of hydrocarbons all mixed together. You have to separate the different types of hydrocarbons to have anything useful. Crude oil is a complex mixture of carbons which must go through "cracking" (hydrocracked Group III)- to break down large molecules (creating a "pretend" synthetic that does not offer the performance characteristics of a TRUE synthetic).
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Natural Gas (ONE CARBON ATOM) vs. Crude Oil (HUNDREDS of Carbon Atoms)
Natural Gas is a simple hydrocarbon made up of one carbon atom. A simple and PURE base which provides for "sameness" and SUPERIOR predetermined performance.
Crude Oil contains hundreds of different types of hydrocarbons, a complex mixture which must go through "cracking" to create a "pretend" synthetic that does not offer the performance characteristics of a TRUE synthetic.
__________________________________________________
Please support a SITE SPONSOR and consider Amsoil 100% TRUE Synthetic Motor Oils and Lubricants for your next fluid change. You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link. THANK YOU !!!
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
3/26/2006
14:46:12
| True Synthetics (Amsoil) vs. "Fake" Synthetics
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How does the consumer tell the difference?
What determines a 100% TRUE SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL?
Look for the PAO designation displayed on the packages.
You ask ... What is a PAO (Polyalphaolefins)?
Polyalphaolefins (PAO) Base Oils (synthetic oils) consist of a single molecular structure --- whereas crude oil or mineral oil contains a broad range of molecular structures. Polyalphaolefins are also known as synthesized hydrocarbons, but are most frequently referred to as PAO’s. PAO’s are commonly manufactured by reacting ethylene gas (not crude oil) with a metallic catalyst. The major advantage of PAO’s is their ability to function over a broader temperature range than their conventional crude oil or mineral-based counterparts.
AMSOIL is a TRUE polyalphaolefins (PAO) synthetic oil ... but there are several FAKE "synthetics" on the market using different base stocks. Many other oil companys use hydroisomerized waxes in their synthetic formulation replacing true synthetics with highly refined petroleum CRUDE oils. These oils are not true synthetic oils and are cheaper to manufacture. They will never be able to measure up to the parameters of hot and cold temperatures that True Synthetics such as AMSOIL can safely handle. None the less in 1999, The NAD (National Advertising Division) of the council of Better Business Bureau ruled in a debate - that oil companies using this hydroisomerized processed petroleum oil (crude oil) can refer to them as a true synthetic oil which they are not.
Here is a ZINGER: A lot of Group III oils are now adding small amounts of PAO and Esters (in the formula and on the label) to fool consumers into believing they are 100% TRUE Synthetics. Don't be fooled.I don't think much of Group III oils masquerading as TRUE synthetics.
A short list of oils beginning to masquerade as 100% TRUE Synthetic Oils:
Valvoline Synpower, Pennzoil Synthetic, Castrol Syntec, Havoline Synthetic,
SuperTech Synthetic, QuakerState Synthetic, Exxon Superflo Synthetic
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Look for the "Genuine Synthetic PAO Formulated" designation displayed on AMSOIL packaging which indicates that the oils are formulated with Polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks ... a TRUE Synthetic Lubricant.
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AMSOIL has been the leader in synthetic motor oil formulation since its introduction of the world's first API rated synthetic motor oil in 1972. The "Genuine Synthetic PAO Formulated" designation displayed on AMSOIL packaging indicates that the oils are formulated with Polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks.
This "PAO" chemistry is the industry's premier base stock technology. Unlike conventional crude oil or mineral-based chemistries, AMSOIL PAO Base Stocks contain fully saturated, hydrogenated molecules and are free of wax and other impurities. Combined with an exact balance of premium additives, itdelivers superior hot and cold temperature performance, resists oxidation and acid formation and provides long-term wear protection. AMSOIL "Genuine Synthetic PAO Formulated" Oils have shattered the parameters of the most rigorous industry testing and set the standard for all other motor oils.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Justin
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/26/2006
16:28:01
|  RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Steve,
I posted on the thread in the V6 forum. I was wondering if you could take a look. Its about true ATF 3+ and universals. Much obliged if you do. :-)
-Justin
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Justin
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/26/2006
17:01:15
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Thank you for following up on that request, Steve. Its too bad retail stores over charge for your products. Dealers can make more sense for both us the consumer and you the dealer. . .
Also, I am considering buy your product and was wondering if you could help me out. I just have one question. here it is: aside from all the properties one can expect from premium brand products like Amsoil, how do synthetic fluids add up against industry demands and manufacture demands? Industry demands being longevity, heat reduction, component cleanliness, and over-all better transmission function. Manufacture demands being primitive to that but still meeting par and grade suitable for transmission function. I use generic grade ATF 3+. I am looking into replacing this generic product with a better suited grade product. Is there any charts or comparisions, or any information for that matter that could better help me to understand manufacture's principals and standards compared to Amsoil equivalent automatic transmission fluid? Again, thanks for your time,
-Justin
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
3/26/2006
18:19:05
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Justin,
I'm going to have to give your questions some thought - and it's Sunday night and I'm about to sit down with my wife for a steak dinner. I'll get back with you ASAP.
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In the interim, would you feel better about using
Amsoil Products if you knew Dodge Dealerships were?
(SOME) DODGE DEALERSHIPS NOW CARRY AMSOIL !!!
Subject: New Chrysler Product?!
Message Posted by a Site Member:
"I went in to have my brakes checked today, and when I walked into the garage the first thing I saw made my jaw hit the floor. My local dealership now uses and sells AMSOIL products!! They've got it posted on a big banner over the service-desks. GM may not have been able to get it for their 'vettes, but obviously Dodge was able to, or they found out how awesome it is and started buying at regular price! When I go in for a tranny-filter, fluid, and gasket change next week, it's getting filled with AMSOIL."
"This is at the Raleigh, NC dealership, Al Smith Buick, Dodge, Mazda. I told the guy at the desk I was astounded to see them using AMSOIL and that I had been using it for a while now. After he rode in the truck he said he'd be switching ( to Amsoil ) next oil-change in his Ram."
"As for me, I've got it ( Amsoil ) in the engine, and I'll have it in the tranny soon! Next up are the differentials. After that I need to get a dyno just for curiosity's sake. IF I get 3-5hp form the differential, and God knows how much from the engine and tranny, that'll be enough without any heavy mods. Well, for all I do anyway. If it is a significant gain, I'll post the results."
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... and as part of the same thread another Site Member stated:
..... "Norwood (MA) Dodge sells Amsoil too."
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Dodge Dealerships realize that AMSOIL offers Premium Synthetic Lubricants,
... and Dodge Dealerships are beginning to offer AMSOIL.
Why ... ???
1) AMSOIL meets AND exceeds Dodge's requirements.
2) Because Dodge customers are asking for AMSOIL.
3) AMSOIL= 30 Year History of Research and Development
4) AMSOIL offers the best Synthetic Lubricants
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For you DIY GUYS ... It is less costly to DIY than to go to the Dealership !!!
Especially as an AMSOIL Preferred Customer whereby you can order at Wholesale Prices ... the SAME prices I pay as an Amsoil Dealer!
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Justin
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/26/2006
20:00:57
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Steve,
Take your time. I am in no rush and enjoy reading any info you can give me.
Thank you,
-Justin
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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/28/2006
02:15:44
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Justin,
Have Steve sponsor you, it costs almost nothing and you'll buy for the same price as Steve. Then follow his advice to change everything over to Amsoil products.
You asked if Amsoil products meet industry standards? Amsoil IS the standard. Their products exceed industry requirements.
Maybe Steves site, definately the Amsoil site has the technical info on all their products. They also have testamonials. Just remember the differance. Look around.
What qualifies me? 500,000 miles on the same engine and transmission of my 98 3.9. Yep, I'm an Amsoil guy.
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jpkomm
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/29/2006
10:26:53
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Once you switch to AMSOIL Universal ATF, Justin, you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. It is one of the best things you can do for your truck. I also recommend switching out your front and rear differential fluid with Amsoil syntheic gear lube.
Steve, although I do wholeheartedly agree with you that AMSOIL's true synthetic motor oil is the way to go, I'm still getting quite a bit of life out of the Group III or "Fake" branch-off of Amsoil's motor oil (I'm using Amsoil 5w-30XL). It has 3000+/- miles on it and still looks like I just poured it in. It is a testament to AMSOIL's quality. It is bright brown with a good consistency. I've *never* experienced this with Castrol Syntec. Castrol always looked dark, grimy, and runny by 3k miles and usually started running a bit rough. If AMSOIL's Group III synthetic motor oil holds up this well, I really want to experience how their "true" synthetic line holds up. I am in no way implying that their Group III is better than their Group IV or that it is in any way, form, or fashion a true synthetic base, but Amsoil's Group III base has made an impression on me as a sturdy "alternative" for those persons out there who are either on a budget or just not convinced/comfortable with leaving oil in for over 7500mi.
So I recommend, if you can afford it, go with the 100% Synthetic base oil. If it holds up anything like this Amsoil 5w-30XL (Group III) oil is doing, I'd imagine a longevity of well over 7500mi of mixed driving. But for those of you out there that are on a constrained budget (like me, since I'm being laid off), the Amsoil Group III base motor oil is also a good choice. In either case, go with Amsoil's Ea Nanofiber Oil filters! I recommend *all* of AMSOIL's products... and so does my Dakota. :)
Sorry if I stepped on your feet, Steve. I know you do not push the "XL" line of oil because of your not liking Group III base oils and, as stated by the AMSOIL product catalog, this oil is intended for quick lube places interested in using AMSOIL products. Just want to let people know that there are good AMSOIL brand alternatives out there for people who are hurting for cash... aka a "Mac 'n Cheese budget" and do not want to skimp on their truck. As always, I do value your advice as you have helped me many many times in chosing products for my Dak. Thanks for all the useful info you've shared with us! You've shown light on more than a few things I never knew.
/end novel
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uhh huh
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/31/2006
10:03:37
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed that Shatto has three different odometer readings in three different posts? 300,000, 400,000 and now 500,000.
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well...
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/31/2006
21:57:49
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Time passes, miles accumulate, people lie OOPS I mean exagerate.
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jpkomm
Dodge Dakota
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3/31/2006
22:34:32
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Eh, even if it is 300k instead of 500k, I'm still impressed. That is a lot of miles put on an engine.
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JopJop451
Dodge Dakota
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4/01/2006
00:01:38
|  RE: True Synthetics vs.
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sure that is alot of miles, but
with a valve job and camshaft... thats
just short of some major work done
on the engin. I am not sure if
motor oil helps sustain those engin
parts, but either wye those are almost
a rebuilt engin.
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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/01/2006
00:41:20
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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JopJop451,
My knuckles still think it was major work!
Just passed the required to re-license, California "Test Only" smog test. At 500,000 miles.
It is done on a Dynomometer hooked straight to the DMV.
As soon as I learn how to get the scanned document out of my computer and into this site, you'll see it.
The different mileages are clever writing; something happened at different mileages.
Valves; Stretch and burn with age. A little leak makes the light go on. Here, you gotta fix it. Dodge heat treats the seats so they may not last as long as a hardened insert but most people are rid of the vehicle long before they wear out anyway, so why spend the money to overbuild. Some valves seated so badly you could see light all around.
Camshaft; A couple mechanics agree it was not a catastrophic failure, rather wear over a long time (say, 300,000 miles) and Amsoil probably made it last far longer than conventional oil could. Again, the same symptoms as bad valves...I had a code I couldn't get rid of. In fact the local dealer with the best equipment said I needed a valve job. I didn't do it because a different mechanic said the missing was on the other bank of cylinders. I accidently discovered the problem looking for a plenum leak.
I say the same engine because the basic engine is still fine.
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Sinnerman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/01/2006
20:04:51
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Shatto,
Thats odd, I just got my smog done for my lil 89 Dakota but it was not at a check only station. I passed with flying colors. the mechanic wondered why, really. He was expecting the car to fail. Most cars do these days, I guess. Probably from lack of the general stuff - maintenance.
Hey though, your replacement of valves. Whats a sure sign that they had to be replaced? Lack of power, cyclinder failure, clicking noise from engine, etc... My truck gots 195K. Power is weak but that is normal. Trying to make this one last 250+ but that is in an ideal world. If you got any advice, or compare notes am listening. Not sure if going to try amsoil though. This trucks already got so many miles. Might just go from atf 3+ to 4+. Me cheap.
Glad to here from you.
-Justin
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Chris G.
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2006
00:54:40
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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HAHAHAHAHA for one thing I have never heard of Amsoil until I got here. I'm sure it's good stuff but I use Castrol Syntec and it get's the job done just fine. I don't believe in that 15k mile crap though. Gotta remember, there is only 2 companies in the USA that makes oil and there is soooooo many brands for one oil company.
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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2006
05:22:55
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Sinnerman,
Thank you. I drove it (can't recall) 50,000 miles or more sick. The check engine light died.
I spent a bunch of money having mechanics diagnose it. The diagnosis chain always begins with missing #1 cylinder and ends...remove parts and pieces and inspect. There I stopped.
Backfiring broke the cataletic converter so I cut the bottom out of it and removed chunks. Folded the flap back,cut a Costco combat size tomato can into a flat sheet, put on a heavy bead of fireplace caulk mixed with steel wool on it and strapped it in place with 5 plumbers hose clamps. Like your radiator's but long. Sounded manly with no cat!
Because I'm cheap I would have run it forever, but Caleefornia (little Arnold , there) requires passing a Test Only exam, which is done on a dyno and hooked to the DMV computer.
As to you being cheap, I think cheap is getting higher mileage by using better lubricants. You've seen smokers only a couple years old. It isn't because they use Amsoil.
Chris G.
Welcome. Perhaps the saying "when the student is ready, the teacher appears." Steve, your friendly Amsoil dealer can sate your appetite for knowledge.
Please, whom would the only two manufacturers of oil be?
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HAHAHAHAHA
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/02/2006
18:19:26
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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only 2 companies in the USA that makes oil
?????????
YES, HAHAHAHAH .... and there is only one beer brewer ..
........... just different labels. HAHAHAHAHA
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HAHAHAHAHA
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/02/2006
19:51:48
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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only one beer brewer ...... just different labels.
HAHAHAHAHA
only one beer brewer ....... just different labels.
HAHAHAHAHA
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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/02/2006
20:33:38
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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And all the beer tasts the same too.......
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Optional
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2006
21:25:49
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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If all the oil is pretty much the same, then what do the additives do to the oil? Is there a such thing as pure synthetic out there? Makes sense if all the brands out there really represent only their additive package. The rest is by default the same. Then what does Amsoil have as additives thats better than lets say Redline or Royal Purple? If Redline and Amsoil come from the same stock could they differ that much? Might as well as go with the best base stock oil and find the cheapest one of those. The additives are usually represenative of their companies advertising, not really the facts? If some one could get the basics of the additives down, then they would be able to compare the oil brands themselves. then we wouldn't 'need' the middle man to sell their stuff. let the truth be seen, they are all the same stuff. lol. minus the additives.
Optionallll..
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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/03/2006
02:42:45
| RE: True Synthetics vs.
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Optional,
They can't brew beer with only water. There is no such thing as an oil with no additives. Different chemecials are added to fight acid, foaming, rust and a host of things.
When I talk about Amsoil additive package I'm referring to the additives used in the manufacture of the oil to make it work the way they want it to. Not something like chucking a can of STP in.
I doubt any manufacturer uses better quality base stock and additives than Amsoil, but if you want to look for yourself the information is on the Amsoil website. Click on Product Information then under Product Catagory List click oil. Select an oil and tech stuff is on the bottom of the page. Now, get the same information from Lucas or Red Line and compare away.
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