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General Dakota Board
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Wigman
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2006
08:38:21
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 Subject: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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Been doing a lot of research on why my 2002 R/T's AC doesnt cool very well and finally got this reply from a Dodge ASE mechanic. I've posted here before and had other people tell me they were experiencing the same issue so thought I would put it up here for everyone.
in 2001 they changed the air condition box in the dakotas and the durangos. It was supposed to be a way for the system (a/c) to run more efficiently, therefor, cooler meaning less time having to have the a/c condensor cool the 350+ degree coolant off and it is compressed meaning the compressor would cycle less and there would be less drag on the motor... in turn, leading to roughly 1 or 2 miles per gallon better fuel
efficieincy. The problam with the system is the new design, although similar to mine (he has a 2000), seems to spit out warmer a/c. The reason it runs fine on the highway, is due to the 70 mph wind blowing through the condensor to cool the
coolant down. ... essentially the "mpg" they were trying to save through a more "efficient" system is only repurtable at highway speeds essentially
cancelling itself out with wind drag... it was a non-researched design flaw... you're stuck with it... there's really nothing much you can do...
they were changing design for 2005 so plans for recalls etc. were null and void... i hope this helps to better answer your question.
I'd like to hear if anyone else has AC cooling problems on 01 and up R/T's
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athenianR/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2006
21:29:28
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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What the F are you talking about???
and I quote---
in 2001 they changed the air condition box in the dakotas and the durangos. It was supposed to be a way for the system (a/c) to run more efficiently, therefor, cooler meaning less time having to have the a/c condensor cool the 350+ degree coolant off and it is compressed meaning the compressor would cycle less and there would be less drag on the motor... in turn, leading to roughly 1 or 2 miles per gallon better fuel
efficieincy.
first, the A/c does NOT use coolant... secondly, the coolant never tops 200 degrees. 350 would blow your seals so fast your head would spin. 350 PSI A/c Freon, or more acurately, R-13A would blow out the system too. the operating pressures are around 150 pressure side, 40-60 on return side...
and you go on.....
The problam with the system is the new design, although similar to mine (he has a 2000), seems to spit out warmer a/c. The reason it runs fine on the highway, is due to the 70 mph wind blowing through the condensor to cool the
coolant down. ... essentially the "mpg" they were trying to save through a more "efficient" system is only repurtable at highway speeds essentially
cancelling itself out with wind drag... it was a non-researched design flaw... you're stuck with it... there's really nothing much you can do...
they were changing design for 2005 so plans for recalls etc. were null and void... i hope this helps to better answer your question.
I'd like to hear if anyone else has AC cooling problems on 01 and up R/T's
Me, I own a 2001 R/T. the ONLY A/C problem has been that the a/c evaporator ( in the Dash) wasn't vented for drainage properly, and the passenger carpet got wet on really hot and humid days. fixed with a .75 part from a dodge tech....
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a D-I-C-K. ( FVck That word seperator sucks for us adults! LOL)
I trust you're having an issue... it sounds to me that you have an issue with either a leak in the A/c system, or that you're just low on freon. before you question, let me say, that YES I worked for Dodge. YES I am ASE certified in 6 out of 8 areas.... getting my MASTER Tech this year. and YES, I am licensed and certified to work on, and repair A/C systems. take it to a shop (LOL when its warm enough, at least 60-70 degrees ambient temp) and have them run an A/C performance and diagnostic test. there should be a charge for the test, usually 60-80 bucks... PLUS freon, and a DYE charge... the dye, is ultra violet... it glows under black light. they will repressurize the system, as I suspect it is low on Freon, and inject the dye into the system. then, run a black light along all the hoses and components of the A/c system... until a leak is either detected, or determined that you may have to take the vehicle for a week, and return for a recheck of the pressures.... usually there won't be another dollar charge for the recheck, or more freon, cause they may not be able to detect it immediately if it is a small leak.
NOW. let me spill some knowledge on ya! the A/C system is a sealed system. meaning, that it is designed not to leak any fluids out at ALL. EPA ( G-D tree huggers!! ---ROFL!) guidlines...
IF the system depressurizes, it sucks. it doesn't work for crap, and IF the system gets so low, the compressor wont even kick on. the first step in any diag is to turn on the A/C, open the hood, and SEE if the compressor clutch even activates. THEN attaching a recharge machine to the A/C system, with the car shut off, to see what the primary system pressures are... the next step, if the nominal pressure is fine, is to turn on the car, max A/C, and measure what the temperature drop is... it should be at LEAST 30 degrees beneath what the ambient is, so long as the temp outside is above 70. if any failure is detected along the path, then you ( or the TECH knows) exactly what the issue is.
I've linked this to email me with any replies, any questions, just post... I'm tired, and thru with this for now. I'll be happy to assist any other questions you may have.
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wigman
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2006
22:29:38
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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Here's what I'm F talking about. HA. Please read on ya sound like you might be able to help.
Now lets get down to business.
Background.
2002 R/T with AC that doesnt work worth a damn. Been to two dodge dealers and one independent. Only needed freon the first time. Been in the 90's when I went. Have dye in the system and no leaks since. AC still doesnt cool very well unless I'm on the highway (when it will freeze me out). Called a local Dodge dealer and service told me that the R/T's have always had this problem. Also posted on this same site and had several people come back and tell me they had the same problem. Finally, found the mechanic that had the info I posted that ya didnt like. Bottomline from him and another dodge dealer I spoke to was that it was a design flaw.
Now.
As a mechanic. What the hell should I do. I'm about to sell it just to buy a 2000 R/T.
Thanx
Mike
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Forseti
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2006
23:16:14
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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2003 R/T here..... blows cold all the time .. no problems at all. Engine coolant has nothing to do with the A/C since the condenser is in front of the radiator. I know my R/T has a electric fan that helps pull air during idle. Check to see if yours is running. If not.... that could be the cause of poor A/C cooling
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athenianR/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2006
23:21:06
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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LOL... I'm glad you found the humor in my ...uh... lack of empathetic words... yea... my shop is adement that I DO NOT talk with customers, BTW... LOL.... I tend to be pretty vulgar, and most people can't handle it.
NOW, I'm assuming, that you have a electric fan, as most of the R/T's have one, as well as a clutch fan. me, I've dropped to a 180 thermo, added in a tranny cooler, and other mods that have dropped my under hood about 20 degrees total, including removing that stupid "fire blanket" crap thats attached to the hood. a lil back ground on me, I live in NE Georgia. I used to live on South Beach, in Miami... Hotter that the Devil's scrotem, with just about as much humidity. I've NEVER even had my A/C serviced.
Now, On your Truck... given, I Can do only SOO much via a computer, from god knows how far a way. most of what you say, seems to have supporting evidence that this may be a flaw... but the thing that gets me, given, I haven't read or talked to anyone in your posts, is that IF the R/T, at 360 CID, was having issues, why wouldnt the same design, on a 318CId cause the same issues... ME thinks, that some body isn't telling the truth. but then again thats my 2 cents, which won't buy much play room at all. From a CLEAR stand point, THIS IS WHAT I SEE:
Cooling at highway speeds.. this is at a steady RPM, meaning that the compressor isn't spinning any more than that at street speed ( RPM doesn't change, only the gear ratio, and vehicle speed.)
THIS tells me, that you simply aren't getting enough flow through the condensor. are you sure that BOTH of your fans are functioning? DOES the electric fan automatically kick on when you push the A/C button??
another thing I could see being a possibility is radiative heat. the radiator, which is ONLY 1/2 an inch behind the condensor ( that radiator lookin thing for the A/C) is sending too much heat from the coolant into the condensor... thats why I'm asking about the fans working properly, and suggesting a 180 degree thermostat.
Furthermore, IF you look at the NEW Ram, you'll see that the Condensor is put seperate to the Radiator all together, suggesting to me, that maybe this design flaw was caught, and fixed by doing so.... what threw me off was you talking about 350 degree coolant, BTW since coolant and freon are totally different, and no fluid ever reaches those temps in a car.. lest it be fuel as its ignited, but that goes up to almost 1700... but anyways...
My suggestions, are to check the flow of your fans, I also assume that you have the coolant reservoir and windsheild reservoir built into the radiator shroud, keep em full, to help with cooling... check the coolant quality, maybe that the cooling sytem is straining due to poor quality coolant. switch out to the 180 thermo... all it means is that the thermo opens at 180 instead of 195, but it translates into more flow, sooner. keeps the engine cooler... 160 is WAY too low, opens way too soon, and flows to much for heat to properly transfer to the coolant...
ANOTHER Big thing, is to have the pressure tested by an experienced tech, if the condensor is partially blocked, it will affect pressures, and that could be the issue too. you may even ask if there's a possibility to install a LARGER condensor, as that equals out to more cooling capacity.
testing the fan would be where I'd spend my effort at though. if the fan isn't kicking on soon enough, it won't be pulling enough air... that's why you see it working at higher speeds... getting the fan to "act" in a means that relates to the air velocity at those speeds is what you need to fix this... simply put, but difficult to acquire, since the fan is controled by the ECM... maybe a Black Magic fan would be a fix, as they come with a thermo that you can set.... either that out rewire to override the ecm, and have the fan hardwired to turn on at either a lower temp, or off a switch, or when the engine is running....
I'm open to suggestions on whatever questions you might have....
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athenianR/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2006
23:28:52
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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yea, forseti is pretty much there, except coolant indirectly DOES affect A/C performance... if the vehicle is running hot, then it traspires to the condensor... as I said above, in a rather LOOOONG post, it can radiate, as they are basically touching. Case in point, working on a brand new car last summer, A/C worked great in the morning and eve, during the mid day, it blew warm. A/C tested out perfect. looked into the radiator, and he was about a half gallon low on coolant. topped it off, and everything worked great.
but he's right, there is an electric fan, that is SUPPOSED to run as soon as the A/C button is pushed.... I use the A/C button to kick on that fan to cool off my engine when it starts to get too hot in traffic, as I've removed the clutch fan.... it sounded to much like an airplane at start-up. BTW, the clutch fan should have tension, not free-wheel, when the engine is cold, and hot, but free-wheel( spin loosely and easily by hand) when warm... thats the test for that fan....
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wigman
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2006
11:40:18
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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Message:
Thanx all,
looks like the problem may be that I do not have an electric fan. Only the clutch fan. Is there supposed to be an electric fan on a 2002 and where would it be located (condensor-side?). As I said, I've taken it to dodge a couple times and they never mentioned this. Maybe the 2002 doesnt have one and I could pull one from a 2003 if they do. Looked into getting an electric fan but wasnt too sure about mounting a push type on the condensor side since high speed driving would probably play hell on it.
Thoughts
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athenianR/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2006
13:06:45
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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Message:
It should be on the engine side, right against the radiator, inside the shroud. like I said, I have an 01, and mine came standard.. why yours doesnt is beyond me, I thought all R/T's came with one, but I guess I was wrong. I'll look thru some wiring diagrams and such at work tomorrow, see if and how you'd wire it up... as I said, there is an automatic override built in that makes the fan kick on when the A/C is turned on, so it may be a bit tricky... I'll pull the diagram up, and print it out... if you gimme your 'real' email, I'll send a copy to you... it'll help at least with how it should be wired in...
glad we could help out! maybe this will serve to help all the "others" you mentioned that were having this same issue!
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wigman
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2006
20:43:44
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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email is %%wigley@@sprynet.com%%.
just take the % signs off both ends and one of the @ out of the middle. yes that a weird way to give it to you but hopefully that will help keep my email from being harvested off this website. I get enough spam. Sorry, I'm a computer guy.
Thanx for the help.
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athenianR/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2006
21:36:45
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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LMAO... I KNOW what you mean... jesus, I get at least 10-20 a day... I'm looking into setting up a new email addy, just to restart and hopefully loose some of em.... yea, got swamped today, I'm off tomorrow, but I'm stopping there anyway, so I'll pull it then....
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wigman
Dodge Dakota
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1/24/2006
19:16:47
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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Ok, I'm a moron. Found the electric fan and it does kick on when I push the AC button. It's dark outside though so I'll check tomorrow to make sure the blades are actually movin. HA I'll check the coolant when it cools down and see if I'm low And try to add a 180 thermostat and see if those help. After that who knows, maybe replacing the electric fan with a better one or start replacing AC parts. I'll repost when I get these fixed.
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athenianR/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/25/2006
01:26:30
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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ROFLMAO. I thought ALL R/T's had that thing stock... Wow, though, that does complicate things now for this issue... you're on the right track, check coolant, replace the thermo, and go from there....
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Rows
Dodge Dakota
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6/02/2006
08:07:32
| RE: Dakota 2000 AC Problems
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Message:
I recently had the ac evaporator installed. AFter 3rd day of use, the compressor blew. Does anyone know if faulty installation of the evaporator caused the compressor to blow. Of course dealer won't admit it. A mechanic told me you have to add 3-4 oz. oil to evaporator or it will blow the compressor. AFter the 1st expensive bill for the evaporator, the dealer won't even guarantee the compressor will fix the problem. I can't afford all this and I need ac in truck for my dog competition trials. HELP!
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Tfw
Dodge Dakota
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6/02/2006
12:31:55
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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Yes, I would say the dealer probably did not replace the oil that was removed during the process, but good luck proving it.
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01 R/T
Dodge Dakota
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6/04/2006
07:31:16
| RE: Dakota R/T AC Problems
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Hey AthenianR/T I was wondering what you did to fix the A/C drainage problem on your truck. I had the same thing happen to me and ended up with standing water on my passenger side floorboards.
Thanks
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