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ford fan
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2005
21:58:22
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 Subject: ford motors
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did ford ever make a motor that would out last or last as long as the 318 or 350? just wondering cause never hear about a ford motor lasting as long as a dodge or chevy. the new 5.4 is a joke that thing has no power, its all hidding under the hood. i think you have to get the Quarker State motor oil to let all those hidden ponnies out.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2005
22:15:44
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thye used to make a 240c.i. straight 6 that was pretty much bulletproof.
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GGalarmtec
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
00:22:27
| RE: ford motors
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Try the 300CI inline6, 302,351,351C,352,360,390,406,427,428,429,460. OH almost forgot the 260,289. All of those motors can last a long time.
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8banger
GenIII
10/13/2005
01:41:15
| RE: ford motors
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um..the 289ci is one of the best engines ever made as far as longevity. The one thats in my 65 mustang is 40 years old and it has been rebuilt twice, the last with a .30 over bore. It puts down more HP at the wheels than my Dakota puts out at the flywheel. Don't ask me what the mileage is because it is a lot.
I will be surprised if my 4.7L is still running in the year 2045
03 Dakota 4X4 QC SportPlus 4.7L 3.55 LSD AWD
Superchipped, 2Chamber Flowmaster Dumped, K&N Drop-in, 2"Torsion Lift
 MY 4X4'S BAPTISM
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
02:44:10
| RE: ford motors
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Ford made a lot of good motors. The 240 (and later the 300) straight sixes have to be up near the top. The 302s show a remarkable tendancy to consume oil, even from the time they are new, but they seem to last long enough...
The 460 (relative to the 429) can last a pretty long time too. Under performance application, the 460s are known to blow head gaskets though. But that is not even a consideration under normal working situations.
The 3.0 litre "vulcan" (OHV) engine that was put in the Ranger for a long time (still is I think) is a pretty good engine too.
The 5.4 has enough power in the (old) F150, but I agree, it's pretty gutless in the larger trucks. It's not that it won't haul ass when you want it to, but all the power is burried up high in the RPM range, very annoying when you are in a hilly area.
The 4.6 in the Crown Vic series is a very durable motor, perhaps more so then the trusted old 302. I have honestly seen those cars go on for a loooong time, and the funny thing is, they can't hardly give those cars away. You can point to some early teething problems with the 4.6, such as spawled cams and cracked (plastic) valvecovers, but those gremlins have been long since chased away.
And the amazing thing is how thin the 4.6 is built. It's obvious Ford makes a tidy profit off every 4.6 built, but the darned things can sure take a lickn and keep on kickin'.
Unfortunately, Ford's racing history was troubled by the fact that their motors while durable enough, don't put out the power per cubic inch, and (in the early smog era days) had trouble keeping up with polution standards, making a mid 80s ford a complicated beast to say the least (and hard to get to pass emissions testing in the areas that require it)
I would have no trouble driving a Ford (come from a Ford family- I am the first Dodge since my grandfather who was a mopar fan), I would never RACE a Ford. :-)
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toolfan
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
09:56:14
| RE: ford motors
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that 4.6 in my mom 03 explorer is pretty damn quick. i think i would take the 4.6 over the 302.
i do wonder if the 4.7 dodge vs. 4.6 ford which would be faster with the same powertrain behide it. ford has had some pretty good stuff like the Escort those do not die.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/13/2005
13:38:34
| RE: ford motors
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Some of them 4 cam 4.6 engines run pretty good.
My friend drives some for his parents limo co. Some used limos mostly with the 4.6
They call the one the "General Lee" when they refer to it because it hauls a$$ up the mountains like nothing with that 4 cam 4.6 Liter.
They make some good engines. I've had like 3 or 4 302 powered cars, and one of them was my fastest car ever.
I've also had 351's in the family's Econiline Vans that ran over 10 years and 200K easy ONLY getting the usual timing chain as far as EVER cracking into the motor. The last one was a 1977 and 5 years ago whoever we sold it to was STILL driving it at over 300K miles.
So, yes. Dodge makes some long runners, but a few from others do as well.
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Mopar
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
15:20:46
| RE: ford motors
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Chrysler 239/318
225 slant six
Chevy 262/350
305
There all reliable and well trusted but I would have to give it to the good ol' 318 for being able to put up with the most abuse. They just love the heat period.
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ptschett
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
16:16:43
| RE: ford motors
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351W's were pretty darn good. My granddad's '90 F150 went a quarter of a million miles without being touched (though at the end of that time it cracked a head.) After new heads, no bottom-end work, it runs good again.
I can't complain about my Thunderbird's 4.6L, either. I haven't had to do a thing other than plugs and wires and am at 133K miles of WOT launches and 75+ cruising.
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mopar fan
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
16:33:49
| RE: ford motors
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Leave it to a ford fan to think a 350 is in the same longevity class as the 318 !
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Slim
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
18:18:07
| RE: ford motors
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the 302s are pretty dang good, pretty hard to kill also. but like has been said, they like their oil.
how ever if I was going to have my choice of any it would be a 351 cleveland
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2005
22:42:29
| RE: ford motors
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The 351 was perhaps in some respects a better motor than the 302. Certainly better suited for a truck. My dad has a '96 bronco with the 351. It has plenty of power. He also has a '99 expedition (he sold the '87 bronco and thought he'd replace it with the expedition"). The Expedition with the 5.4 has no guts down low, and he soon bought the '96 bronco. Kept the expedition for longer road trips because it rides pretty nice, and has seating for a 7 (or 4 plus a lot of cargo).
The 350 is not a bad motor, it really isn't. I don't like Chevy, so I can't object too much to the bashing of the mouse though... :-)
I would still take a 318 (or maybe even a 360) over all of the motors discussed above...
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/14/2005
02:03:18
| RE: ford motors
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Until the later 90's 350's, i don't think many of them went over 200k without flat cams or a rod knock. Sooner if you drove them hard. 100k miles was it for valve guides.
Cheap, simple, plentiful, yes. Bulletproof. They were not.
Ford 302,351W series would go 200k to 300k miles with a stock bottom end as long as you did oil changes, etc. I've overheated 302's until it completely stopped running and seized. Cooled off. And would restart. Heads would be the only damaged parts.
The NEWER Chevy Vortec V8's in our service vehicles seem to go 200K miles now, driven pretty damn hard. But 10 to 15 years ago, they didn't. The Chevy small block is actually BETTER now I think.
The 318 ALWAYS ran 200k to 300k+ with no bottom end problems unless someone REALLY neglected the oil changes, or just having oil, etc.
So did most of Dodge's other V8's. 360, 383, 400, 413, 440, etc.
Each has good and bad. I think Dodge had less bad.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2005
14:11:53
| RE: ford motors
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Well put, although I've never seen one burn through a cam as has been mentioned on here before, and I've seen a lot of 350s in my dad's shop. But as you have no reason to lie, I'll just take it for granted.
But I wonder which can put out more brute power- the (to make it fairer) 340, or the 350...
Or maybe the 327 or the 318...
It would be interesting. Mopar has a history of being down a few cubes but still comming out on top. But I've seen 1100 horsepower 350s. Hm...
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Mark
Forum Moderator
10/14/2005
14:20:55
| RE: ford motors
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I have a '94 F-250 with the 351.. I belive its a 351C
It has 117k miles. Its a heavy truck with the 4x4, long bed, and cap... so its not all that fast... almost a dog.
I belive it has a really small ratio in the rear. Probably something like a 2.70
-Mark Hryckiewicz
1993 Sport RC SB 5.2L Auto
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ExDakota
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2005
15:23:22
| RE: ford motors
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The 5.4 is a joke? Actually the biggest problem with the new Triton (2004+) is that it is under the hood of the HEAVIEST half ton pickup being sold, and still has a 4-speed auto, instead of at least 5 like the others.
My 5.4 (2003) feels more powerful than my old Dakota (in spite of the fact that it is in a full-size truck), when I set the cruise, it holds its speed better in the lower RPMs than my old Dakota (especially up hills), it doesn't burn any oil (my Dakota was going through a little less than 1 quart every 1000 miles), and the gas mileage is the same (17-18 on the highway).
If you want to see a truck motor that has to rev to make its power, that would be the Hemi. Just compare torque and hp curves the other 1/2 ton v8s. Flame On!
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/14/2005
16:52:02
| RE: ford motors
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Ford is heavy because their suspension has always been twice as tough as the others.
Especially in the new trucks.
Mark. I don't think Ford made a Cleveland in the 90's. Maybe not even in the 80's.
Surely you have a 351 windsor. Same heads as a 302. Block is taller, wider intake, etc but many parts swap from a 302.
And Ford was known for sh*tty gear ratios. I've had a 2.46 behind a 302 before. Wacked!
I think Ford does have some 5 speeds. They've been using them in their Linclons and European lines for a while.
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ptschett
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2005
18:22:35
| RE: ford motors
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The last 351C's were in 1974. The 351M and 400 which replaced it were based on the 351C but with a taller block (to accomodate the 400's 4" stroke) and a 460-style bellhousing pattern. By the mid-80's the 351M and 400 were gone.
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Mark
Forum Moderator
10/14/2005
19:00:19
| RE: ford motors
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Ok cool I like the sound of the windsor instead of cleveland. I like my 318 even better though.
2.46 rear.... I wouldnt doubt it. Its got such bad low end that a highly accredited mechanics shop thought the trans was about to blow.
-Mark Hryckiewicz
1993 Sport RC SB 5.2L Auto
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2005
20:50:48
| RE: ford motors
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Yes, the trucks use the Windsor motor, versus the cleveland motor. Older trucks used the 351M "modified" motor, which was pretty good too. I'm not sure, but I think it was '85 when they canned the "M". Also not sure, but I understood the "M" used longer connecting rods for some odd reason. They were (mostly) off the roads in PA by the time I can really remember doing auto-repair work with my dad. A product of the rust belt.
Your '03 has plenty of power. The "new" '04 does not. Trust me on that one. My brother has a '98 F150 with the 4.6 and a stick with the 3.55 rear (lmited slip), and it pulls pretty hard, probably as fast or a little faster than my '04 3.7 Dakota.
The 5.4 in an Expedition is a crime. It has power, but it has to be wound up so high to get it that it makes the vehicle kind of a pain in the butt to drive.
Mark, we had a contractor/friend that had a fleet of F250s with 351s in them. When my dad got his '92 F250 with the 460, he let the guy use it. Ever since then the guy bought 460s (until they discontinued the motor, then he got V10s). It's a matter of once you load the 351 down, even with the 3.55 rear, it had no off the line grunt. And when you're a contractor, low end (for local work) counts a LOT.
Still, the 351 can't be faulted as a motor- they're really tough. Just doesn't have the grunt to (comfortably) do loads of towing and extremely heavy use.
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Chrysler
Dodge Dakota
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10/14/2005
23:14:23
| RE: ford motors
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Which would last longer a 318 LA or Magnum block?
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