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04dakota
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
21:02:34
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 Subject: Newbie Drum Question
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I'm contemplating on replacing my shoes and resurfacing my drums. I had a vibrating truck while I was braking. I replaced front rotors and pads. That helped a lot, but I still get some shaking and squeling when I brake. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the rear. How easy is it to do the drums? I've only every worked on discs before. I really don't want to pay a shop. Is this something I can do with just having worked on discs before? Any suggestions?
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Jecht
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
22:00:55
|  RE: Newbie Drum Question
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get a manual and its harder than disk brakes. you have springs you have to take off and you need to know where they go back. just take your drum off and look at it. then decide if you really want to tackle it or not. everything you see comes off in there.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
22:09:21
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Well, as a young guy myself, I have extremely little experience with drum brakes- they just don't need to be done as often as they once did, as discs have replaced drums more and more. As for if you can "resurface" a drum, the answer is a careful yes. You will probalby need to pay someone who has a brake lathe just as you would with discs (unless you have one yourself). I would advice caution when replacing the shoes- it might not be a job you really want to do. Drums usually involve the use of little spring retainers and other specialized tools. While it's possible to do without, it's an even bigger pain in the butt. Unless you have someone to look over your work, I wouldn't recommend doing the drums yourself. If you decide to ignore that part of my advice, PLEASE only do one side at a time. That way you have a template that you can copy if you get lost, or forget where a spring goes. You know it's possible all you will have to do is knock out the rust that can build up in the drums to fix your squeaking. This can especially happen in a high humidity climate. If the brakes only squeal (sometimes they feel grabby too) in the morning, it's because there is rust on the rotors/drums. It passes within a couple of hundred feet of driving, and is pretty much normal on any car or truck that lives in a corosive environment.
How many miles on your truck? It oughta be pretty substantial for you to be worrying about the rear brakes- These days you can see up to 60K per set. Sometimes more.
As a side note, I have never actually seen a car in which the drums were causing the shaking/ problem. If you're hearing a squealing, and the rivits are grinding into the drum surface, you will need to get the drum resurfaced.(many shoes are rivited- I don't know what comes on a Dakota as I've never done a Dakota- some shoes are bonded too)
I'm not really familiar with the Dakota, even though I do own one. Are the front rotors a composite/ceramic? If they're not you might have been able to resurface the rotors. Just something to keep in mind in the future. Whose rotors did you buy? I know that from our experience at the shop most of the stuff sold through NAPA holds up very well.
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EMTSquad51
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
22:19:36
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Just from my personal experience's (fair-moderate) I would say that you can definately do the drum brakes (as far as replacing the shoes) As far as resurfacing them, this should DEFINATELY be done at a shop that knows how and has the right equipment to do this as crucial to your brake shoes, if you get that drum so much as 1/100th out of sync, it will chew the heck out of your brake shoes.... I also strongly advise going to your local autozone, advance auto parts, or any parts store for that matter, and buying a "Brake Tool" It looks like a screwdriver with an open round tip on it, this is used to remove/put back on the retaining springs that actually hold the brake shoe in place. Other than that, just take your time, and as Craig said, DO ONE SIDE AT A TIME!!!! This will allow you to look at the side that is still intact if you forget where something goes. Also, if the drum won't pull off, don't be afraid to beat on the outside/front of it to get it off, many times they actually get stuck on due to brake dust/rust...
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choochoo
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
22:24:55
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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You post as 04dakota, so I assume that is what you are working on. I have one of the same year and it has disk brakes on the rear. Am surprised your doesn't. Unless yours is 2WD ?
Mine's a 4 WD.
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04dakota
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
22:25:19
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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thanks for all of your advice. i knew that i would have to take the drums to a shop, sorry i didn't make that clear. i was just talking about the pads or shoes (what ever you prefer to call them). by the way...i only have 20,000 miles.
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EMTSquad51
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
22:28:11
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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04Dakota, if you only have 20,000 on the truck, your drums should be WAY away from needing changed, unlike disc brakes, Drum brakes usually last twice as long. Most of the time you should be able to get about 75,000 or more out of the drum brakes. Also, drum brakes have self-adjusters on them, so if/when you put new shoes on, you will need to crank the adjuster all the way in (shoes move away from drum) so that the drum will fit over the new shoes. The adjuster is a little barrel that will sit at either the top or bottom of the brake shoes (never looked at my dak to know).
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/21/2005
23:07:25
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Wow. I'm surprised how many people are worried about doing drum brakes.
I was doing the drum (and disk) brakes on my families cars by time I was 12. Well before I had a license.
Just look at HOW it goes together first. like soemone said, leave one side together until you finish one.
Having the tools to remove the springs and clips are nice. BUT I've done them well before I had them tools.
Now I don't have anything with drums.
BTW. 33k here. 4 wheel disk. Over 50% left.
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EMTSquad51
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
23:23:34
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Graph, I have done them many time without the tool as well, just thought I'd let him know that tool was out there considering that spring can be a b**ch to get off, but more so back on!! hehe I wish my '00 dak had 4-wheel discs, mine has the drums on the back as well.
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04dakota
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
23:26:07
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Hi everyone,
I really appreciate everything. And yes, i do have a 2wd dak. If i take the drum off and see that the pads are fine, could i just get the drum turned...would this stop the skeaking? Once again, thanks for all of the advice. I really appreciate it.
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EMTSquad51
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
23:38:36
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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04dakota, as someone previously stated, I hever never heard of the drum brakes causing a shudder upon breaking.... Did you have the rotors turned or did you buy new one's? It's possible that whoever turned them may have not gotten them exactly right.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2005
23:47:24
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Might just be a little rust. does it squeak all the time, or just in the morning? I would say it depends on your level of mechanical inclination whether or not you should attempt the drum brakes.
Your rear drums shouldn't need attention at only 20K miles.
As a clarifier for you, to avoid confusion. Drum brakes use "shoes", disk brakes use "pads". It's ultimately not the end of the world, but it will help stop confusion as to what you mean exactly.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
17:20:33
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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04dak, "I still get some shaking and squeling when I brake"
Is the shaking in your hands and feet (pedals and stering wheel) or your arse (seat), feet and hands indicate the front, arse indicates the rear. How long has it been since your front brakes were done, just finish them? Maybe you got some bad rotors, has hapened to me before. I had a set go bad in a couple of months on my 00 CC, took them back and AutoZone replaced the rotors and pads, I was lucky they popped for everything ;-) If your getting squeeling from your brakes I'd bet it's the front brakes squeeling. I doubt the drum brakes need attention at 20K, but you never know. A couple of things to try,,, While driving slowly (5-10 mph) apply the Ebrake slowly and let it slow the truck, this will scrub off anything on the drums. If you remove the drums you can take some sand paper and lightly scuff the surface if there is rust built up where the shoes contact. If you have the drums turned be aware that you will need to adjust the "self adjusters" (yeah right) so the rear drums work properly.
Graphite,,, "Now I don't have anything with drums."
I thought the same thing until I pulled off the rear rotors of my 03 QC, there are brake shoes inside those rotors for the Ebrake. Pretty F'n wierd....
Oh BTW, I replaced the F&R pads on my 03 QC with Wagner ThermoQuite Pads. The old pads (36K) were squeeling and groaning like crazy because the backing had worn off the pads, thanks Dodge... Anywhoo, since turning the rotors and replacing the pads 4-6 months ago I have never heard the new brakes squeel once. They are a little more expensive, but I'll be buying ThermoQuiet pads from now on.
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
18:54:05
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Just my 2cents but I was a little nervous doing my drums also (first time). I took a digital picture of each side as i did them! People say only take one apart at a time but only prob is they're a mirror image,(which can mess a newbie up) whith the pic you can zoom right in and see exactly where everything goes.
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04dakota
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
20:58:08
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Hi all,
Thanks for all the advice. To answer a some of your questions, the rotors were bought new from advanced auto parts and new pads too. The shaking is when i apply the brakes lightly and it feels like the truck itself is kind of hoping or jumping or just kind of shaking (if that makes sense). They squeal some, and i'm almost postive that the squealing is coming from the rear of the truck!! Will applying the ebrake fix that? I'm going to try it tomorrow. Also, should i just take the drums off, clean everything with brake cleaner, and scuff everything up with sand paper?
your advice is great everyone.
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EMTSquad51
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
22:23:13
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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04dakota, just remember to hold out on the brake release handle if you try that that way if they lock up you can just ease your foot back until they unlock. Never tried the sand paper thing.
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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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9/25/2005
01:20:01
| RE: Newbie Drum Question
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Hey '04, yea I would get some 220 emory cloth and a few cans of brake cleaner. You want to lightly sand the surface of the shoe (a sanding block helps) to make shure they are smooth and even. Then sand the hell out of the drums in a non-directional pattern. Clean everything up really good, then use the adjuster wheel at the bottom of the shoes to push the shoes out. You want to feel a very slight drag when you rotate the drum on the axel. If this does'nt fix it you can do drum brakes. either get a hanes manual or just tear down one side at a time, but as razor said the other side will look backwards. Take your drums somewhere to be resurfaced or your pissin in the wind.
BTW Front disks will usally cause side to side pulling/vibrations in the steering wheel or pulsating pedal
Rear drums usally cause rear "hopping" or a uneven grabbing type feel in the seat
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