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Joe.C
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2005
15:42:39
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 Subject: Nissan Titan
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I can't help but wonder if these trucks are as good as they say? Really the best fullsize pickup in its class?
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dakkid
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2005
21:12:55
|  RE: Nissan Titan
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they're impressive, no doubt, but i wouldn't give them the title of best in class fullsize. right now, i'm pretty impressed with the new F-series Fords. i hate GM products. Dodge isn't really putting out what i expected, but they're still my first choice for fullsize. just depends on how you look at them and what they're used for i guess.
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small print
Dodge Dakota
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7/31/2005
00:26:20
| RE: Nissan Titan
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That "class" that it's best in is not Full Size.
Read between the lines.
The class could be:
all the full size pickups with a certain size engine, or
all the full size pickups with a certain load capacity, or
all the full size pickups with a certain tow rating, etc.
To find out how they define class, and there's usually an asterisk (*) next to the best in class statement, you gotta read the small print.
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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7/31/2005
08:30:02
| RE: Nissan Titan
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It alot of cases they compare the "stadard equipment" models.
When Chevy does a comparison, they exclude "all other GM models".
- Dan M
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red rock
Dodge Dakota
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7/31/2005
21:24:53
| RE: Nissan Titan
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The Tital is as good as they say?
The Nissan Titan is a p.o.s. Go to this sight and see what the owners are saying about rear differentials failing,problems with windows, problems with leaks, brakes etc. etc. You never saw a more sorry bunch:
http://www.nissanoffroad.net/messageboard/
My three Nissan trucks - first one excellent, second one okay, third one built in Tennesee horrible. Dealership service is terrible as well and I've been at a lot of them.
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STS
Dodge Dakota
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8/01/2005
15:35:13
| RE: Nissan Titan
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I do happen to know of some of those problems you mentioned Red Rock. After reading a review in "Truck Trend" magazine, they did report about the axel going out because of the break in procedure. The procedure is (when towing) pulling no faster than 50 MPH for 500 miles. Now I don't know of any other truck like that. Do you??
Also they had to replace a rotor and some other stuff that T.T reported. But they still liked it. Now can you imagine if that was either a Dodge,Ford or GM what there conculsion would be??
I do Agree dakkid wabout the F-150. I think the XLT's are sharp looking trucks. But the GMC's look just as good. And if you notice, which Fullsize gets the top MPG will be the best seller for this year.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
8/01/2005
22:06:55
| RE: Nissan Titan
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I noticed the latest nissan Frontier comercial pi$$ed me off.
They were showing how their truck out did the Colorado, the tacoma, and refered to it as their V6 OUT POWERING the Dakota's V8!
I KNOW they get some goofy BHP figures, but I'll take our 235 HP V8 against their 265HP rated V6 any day.
THEN go throw a 12 or 16 foot trailer behind each truck. THEN we'll talk about power!!!!
I KNOW if a 4.7 Dakota can hold it's ground with full size Chevy trucks when doing work and towing, a FRONTIER V6 shouldn't be a problem!
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modain
Dodge Dakota
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8/01/2005
23:28:34
|  RE: Nissan Titan
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The problem is all about marketing. Most people who are the target for the marketers are thought only to be interested in the max power amount. "If A's is larger than B's, then A *must* be better..."
The comparisons are apples-to-oranges, and will never reflect the true picture of what there is to consider. Do they point out that to achieve the stated power of the Nissan V6 it'll need premium gas? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't - I don't know. But what if premium gas was necessary to achieve those numbers? That's a big requirement to consider for someone contemplating owning one. I would most likely steer clear of the more power due to premium gas. That's $.20+ per gallon to feed it. It might not be worth it to me if that's what the cost is.
Granted, the performance numbers Nissan pushed from this 4.0L V6 are impressive. But, look further into where those numbers arrive: 265HP @ 5600 RPM, 284TQ @ 4000 RPM. I don't feel those are good numbers for a truck engine. I wouldn't want to be pulling a heavy load at those engine speeds just so I can keep an acceptable velocity up a hill, for instance.
The "lowly 4.7L V8 makes less power so the 4.0L V6 is better" argument doesn't consider where the power is made. According to a dyno graph of a 2004 Grand Cherokee 4.7L engine (using regular gas) it's outputting 265TQ and 80HP @ 1600 RPM. How much TQ is the Nissan engine putting out at this speed? Is it even enough to move the truck out of its own shadow?
I found a crappy (size and quality) dyno chart from AFE regarding one of their CAI’s testing. If I can make it out correctly, the stock engine is putting out 138TQ and 91HP at 3000 RPM. Wow! That’s impressive. At that speed the 4.7L engine is posting 285TQ and 170HP. 600 RPM more and it’s at max 295TQ. 1600 RPM more and it’s at max 235HP.
I wish I could make out the chart, or find a better one to do a real thorough comparison, but I think this establishes the fact (certainly with me) that even though the Nissan’s HP number is larger: big deal. It’s not a suitable truck engine to perform real truck work. Eight cylinders doing the same work at lower RPM than the Nissan’s six will last a lot longer.
I have a 20’ toy hauler when loaded is pushing 6000#s. My truck pulls it quite satisfactorily. I doubt a Frontier could pull this and not choke.
Let's hear if for those marketers!!!
=========
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L V8, NV3500, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
8/02/2005
02:38:05
| RE: Nissan Titan
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How much TQ is the Nissan engine putting out at this speed? Is it even enough to move the truck out of its own shadow?
That was facking funny sheet right there dude! I almost fell out of my computer chair!
I can't wait to tell that one to my nissan lovin' friend who BEFORE the new 4.0 came out he was telling me how it was going to tear my Dakota up :p
I knew it would have no grunt!
Remember this THING I towed through the mountains for my friend a few months agO?
That is one heavy biatch of a trailer! It had real WOOD cabinets, and full of storage my friend had in it.
I don't think the hitch of a Frontier/Tacoma could even withstand this, yet alone even THINK of towing this thing up the grades my Dakota did. And I have 3.55 gears!
Sure, it slowed me down on some BIG hills. But it also maintained in OVERDRIVE on the flat at 75MPH!
There MUST be some torque left in my 4.7!
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modain
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2005
03:26:53
|  RE: Nissan Titan
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I had a good chuckle because of your amusement of my "shadow" remark. Thanks!
Let's face it, our trucks are monsters even at stock trim.
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Jerry
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2005
10:39:11
| RE: Nissan Titan
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I took a serious look at these when they first came out. I probably would have bought one except that they had no history, so I had no idea what the reliability would be like. Also, I just decided that I didn't want to pay the price for a brand new truck.
I was very impressed! The 5.6 V-8 (the Titan doesn't even come with a V-6)puts out 305 hp but has more torque than the hemi, and at a lower RPM (389 lb ft). Initial tests show that it is consistanlty quicker than the other 1/2 tons (including the Ram hemi) in 0-60 and 1/4 mile, with and without a load.
The F-150 is the only 1/2 ton rated to two more (9,900 lbs vs 9,400 lbs).
It has a system called the Active Brake Ltd Slip, so essentially you have ltd slip in front and back with a 4x4, this is on top of an optional rear locker. Also, optional Rancho shocks and 33" tires.
It was a lot of fun to drive, but that being said; I would be concerned about the strength of the body panels, as they seemed flimsy. Also, judging by previous posts, there may be issues with the rearends and other reliability issues.
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sid vic
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2005
17:18:21
| RE: Nissan Titan
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the titan will have a recal in a couple of months regarding the brakes they used frontier brakes on a titan which warps the rotors and kills the brake pad ,a buddy of mine has had his for less than a year and hes had to change the brakes more than three times already ...theres also a class action lawsuit on those in which he is a part of i also know that nissan is going to pay off his truck .very nice looking trucks but like you read for yourselves they arent worth the trouble
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robscar
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2005
21:37:52
| RE: Nissan Titan
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you will probably take this wrong, but being subjective about the results of towing comparisons between the tac, frontier, and dakota i was not pleased. i read tests by consumer reports, one of the car magazines, and trailer boat magazine. the two v6's accelerated faster to 60mph towing boats or trailers than the dak. this is not just a little faster, but in one test by 8 seconds. you say so what!, unless you go from a standing start up hill, which is what we will have to do. i do not believe that the ho 4.7 was actually used in any of the tests. also can't confirm the gear ratios in all of the tests. i don't remember.
i would like to buy a new truck for the wife to tow her horses but do not feel comfortable with the capabilities of this truck(dakota). which is ashame as i really do like the size of the dak. so i will wait until dc increases the power output or it is shown that the ho really improves the capabilities of this truck.
i don't want to have to improve the truck up to the competition, i want to start out even or better and then go up.
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JimB
GenIII
8/02/2005
23:58:39
| RE: Nissan Titan
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I own a 2004 Titan. Extremely powerful (posi-trak 305 hp), tons of room (4 doors) and excellent towning capacity. Plus, it isn't a truck every other guy on the road is driving (like an F150). Had a few minor problems (it'll be 1 year old in December) - all fixed under warranty. Had MORE problems with the Durango. Hell, they all have problems. One difference (of significance) between owning 2 Dodge's and this Nissan - when the Nissan breaks, the dealer takes damned good care of you... in terms of putting you in a loaner, analyzing the problem (vs. returning it to you still broke-dick, "unable to duplicate problem,") etc. No doubt - they have their act together in the service dept. regarding customer care.
99 SY 3.9 Dakota Sport
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
8/03/2005
02:12:06
| RE: Nissan Titan
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I don't think those tests for towing could be accurate by them magazines. Maybe it was vs a 3.7 V6 heavier Dakota vs the 4.0 Taco/Frontier lighter trucks. But Dak heavier or not, I don't believe it for a second that the V8 was 8 seconds slower. More like 8 seconds FASTER!
I've towed 3000+ Lbs many times. Sometimes MORe as seen above.
And IF the V6 Taco/Frontier took say 10 seconds to get to 60 with a trailer, there is NO way in hell my truck takes 18 seconds even when it was stock!!! It has always towed good. And now I doubt a 2WD Frontier could touch my 4WD Dak.
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modain
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2005
03:43:10
|  RE: Nissan Titan
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OK. I've had enough of this Nissan Frontier/Taco/Ridgeline apples-to-oranges stuff. I dug out the C&D comparison (June 2005) and built this table showing how handicapped the Dakota was in this "so called" objective test.
(Sorry I can't get the table to show up without all this blank space...)
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Weight
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Lbs/HP
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HP/TQ
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F/D
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1st
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2nd
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3rd
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4th
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5th
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Datota
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4787
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19.1
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250/300
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3.55
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3.00
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1.67
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1.00
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0.75
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0.69
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Frontier
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4572
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17.3
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265/284
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3.36
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3.84
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2.35
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1.53
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1.00
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0.84
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Tacoma
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4225
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17.2
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245/282
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3.73
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3.52
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2.04
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1.40
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1.00
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0.72
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C&D tested 4x4 trucks from each of the five manufacters. Since the Dakota was available with a V8 they got one of those because Dodge declares: "How 'bout a V-8?" They didn't bother to order one with 3.92 gears, instead they took the standard 3.55.
In looking at the numbers it's easy to see why the other trucks performed better at the acceleration tests: they were lighter, and more importantly, had more favorable gearing. Look at the Dakota's numbers - they are very steep and wider spread than the other's show. No wonder the acceleration tests sucked for the Dakota. If the truck had the 3.92 axles it would have been a different article, and *just* maybe the Honda Ridgeline wouldn't have won. (It's a Honda, that's why it won. That's another off topic rant.)
The reviewers put more emphasis on the engine output instead of combining it with the more important aspects of gearing and weight. Do the math - you'll see how much harder the Dakota engine had to work just to turn the tires.
The C&D verdict: "A decent truck that doesn't deliver on the promise of the segment's only V-8 engine." Their advise to Dodge to make it perform better: "Bring on the Hemi!" No, put the right gears in it!
Maybe if our truck hadn't have been crippled before the test maybe the Japanese truck makers and buyers wouldn't have something to gloat about?
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What the?
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2005
09:09:27
| RE: Nissan Titan
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Are you people looking at the forum topic? It says "Nissan Titan" and the original post wants to know about the Titan! As usual some people read only the first word and took it as a personal insult to their Dakota? How did the Frontier and the Tacoma work their way in?
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jimb
GenIII
8/03/2005
14:49:45
| RE: Nissan Titan
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My thoughts exactly. I thought this thread was about Titans.... oh well.
99 SY 3.9 Dakota Sport
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Joe.C
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2005
15:45:55
| RE: Nissan Titan
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Anyway!!!
Right, I didn't expect for this from to get out of topic they way it did.
I guess there's no Titan or people who know of Titan owners here.
But anyway,
Graphite
here is my question. It really dosn't matter if the peak curve of the Frontiers 4.0 DOHC V6 motor is higher than the Dakotas 4.7 OHC V8. The fact still remains that they both put out about the same amount of toruqe. And also I think its a shame that those airheads a the Chrysler group couldn't put sqeeze out more power out of the little 287 cid motor.
Look at the H.O in the last gen. Grand Cherokee for instance. It was rated at 330 ftlbs toruqe at about the same HP rateing as the one in the Dakota (260).
If I had to trade in my Dakota I would my a Toy-ota and you herd right. At least I won't be scaping out my underpinings on the wash outs on the trails.
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Tryit
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2005
16:53:38
| RE: Nissan Titan
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Joe C, do yourself a favor and take a Titan for a test drive. I did, along with all the other 1/2 ton offerings (Tundra, F150, Ram, Chevy, GMC, Titan). The Titan was definitely the most fun to drive! It tows more than all but F150, the off-road package comes with equipment that will actually help offroad, and spray-in bedliner with the utilitrack system.
Then, if you that you have enough interest to pursue it further, there should be a lot more info on reliability than when I was considering. Maybe visit Titantalk.com. Hope that helps with your original question.
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jimb
GenIII
8/03/2005
19:38:54
| RE: Nissan Titan
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Joe - I guess you missed my earlier post when I mentioned I own a Titan. But anyway...
yeah folks - you'll find a lot of whining about issues/problems with Titans via the Internet. Hell, you'll find them here about Dakotas! As I mentioned, ALL vehicles have their share of minor problems - fortunately, in the Titan's case, they have been all minor, and have been addressed/corrected appropriately at the dealership -- no questions asked. And it'll spank the crap out of any F150 or Silverado at a Green Light. Period. The only one that gives me a "little" problem is a Hemi, but this thing takes care of them too. The Titan's a great truck. As is the Dakota I still own. The only issue I have with Dodge is our particular local dealer. A bunch of clueless asshats. I am sure there are many a dealer out there who take great care of their customers... unfortunately, not in my zip code.
Have fun - Jim
99 SY 3.9 Dakota Sport
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