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General Dakota Board
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Pugs Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE
2/25/2005 20:16:51
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Subject: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message: Anybody have opinions on which is a better oil? I use Quaker State full synthetic (10w30 in summer, 5w30 in winter). Is Mobil 1 a better full synthetic then Quaker State or is it just brand preference.
Also, I have 50K miles on my 4.7 V8 and was wondering if any of you have ever put in Slick 50 engine treatment to lubricate on cold starts and extend engine life. I've never used it yet. Would you recommend using Slick 50 every couple years or so or stay away from engine additives and just stick with plain full synthetic oil. Would Slick 50 wreck any internal engine parts or change the tight oil pressure specifications needed in this engine?
Thanks for the input!
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scott1981 Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE
2/26/2005 11:26:20
| RE: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message: i was under the impression that only mobil actually had a 100% synthetic product, but when i went to the quaker web site the synthetic is infact full synthetic and not a blend. Really all synthetic oils will protect better then dino. Mobil one has been the trusted brand for years now. i would tend to feel that they have researched more and had more development time than quaker has. that bieng said amsoil is also an excellent synthetic and IMO the best you can buy. it is all a matter of how much you want to spend and how often you use your truck under extreme conditions. also dont bother going to synthetic unless you plan on inreasing your drain intervals. if you are still going to swap the oil at 3k then you are just wasting money and stick with dino. if you want to go 5-7k great, then your taking advantage of the synthetic. if it was my truck mobil or amsoil because i am comftoable with those products.
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poopie Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE
2/26/2005 12:53:40
| RE: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message:
do you mean quack-er state
quaker (quack-er) state is crap
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/26/2005 13:18:20
| RE: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message:
Quaker State is NOT a 100% True Synthetic. They use the same creative marketing as Castrol. Both are FAKE SYNTHETICS. Both QS and Castrol use Group III Base oils which are derived from CRUDE OIL ... and a 100% TRUE Synthetic's Base oil is Group IV or Group V, made in the labatory from natural gas.
Quaker State was bought out by Pennzoil several years ago ... and then Shell bought out Pennzoil / Quaker State two years ago. Due to the many labels they now manage they now blend Quaker State at the "lower end" of the quality scale.
Quaker State bought Slick 50. Seems they wanted the massive profits from the American Public can't get enuf of the "quick fix" snake oils
Slick 50 contains PTFE !!!
I have made many posts here (search under Slick 50, zMax, MMO, Marvel Mystery Oil) regarding the HAZARDS of using any additives. There are a few good advantages to additives ... but VERY few.
It's the fact that oil chemistry is a science and many hours and lots of $$$ goes into blending oil. To think that an additive maker can come out with something that works in improving the quality of an oil without disturbing the existing oil's chemistry is certainly not thinking about the long term consequences. Chemistry clash is a good reson not to mix differant oils and/or additives to achieve your own "homebrew".
"Snake Oils" that have been the subject of FTC investigations, fines, etc.
(a partial listing)
DuraLube:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/9905/duralub2.htm
ProLong:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/9909/prolong.htm
MotorUp:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/9904/motorup5.htm
Slick-50;
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/9607/slick.htm
Whatever you may record as short-term benefits ...
...... always consider the long-term consequences!
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FYI, for all of you that flame Amsoil and call Amsoil "Snake Oil" ... Amsoil has NEVER been subject of FTC investigations, fines, etc., and we have been in business for well over 30 years!
__________ __________
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/26/2005 13:20:31
| Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Slick 50 IP: Logged
Message:
Slick 50 contains PTFE !!!
PTFE is bad !!! Basically marketed as Teflon ... and they piggyback off the fact that everyone has seen the "egg slip off the frying pan" commercial on TV. Dupont owns the Teflon technology and they even state that Teflon is not good for an internal combustion engine. There were a lot of FTC lawsuits ... and settlements ... regarding the use of Teflon in aftermarket additives.
You see PTFE marketed in Slick 50 and TufOil.
There is simply no need for any of those snakeoil type additives. Choose a good oil with a good antiwear package. If you want protection from metal to metal contact on a cold start, choose a quality synthetic oil.
There is more to an oil than the sum of its parts which show up in a typical UOA/VOA (Used Oil Analysis/Virgin Oil Analysis). That's why some additives backfire. There is an optimal amount of moly/boron/zinc/phosphorous/calcium, etc ... and the type/form/percentage of each is critical to it's optimum performance.
PTFE has been shown to cause pitting of the yellow metals. Do you want to risk bearing failure? This is one thing that Briggs and Straton found when they did their test on PTFE. It showed that the machine running the PTFE had actually pitted the yellow metals where the other machine that ran with standard oil showed no such evidence.
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Teflon is for frying pans, not engines.
Here are other reasons not to use it:
Teflon (PTFE), as it is offered in an additive is a member of the family of "solid, held in suspension" lubricant particles. It is effective as a "sliding friction lubrication" if you can get the PTFE to adhere to the point of contact. Repeat ... PTFE is bad.
IF the "particles held in suspension" are not machined small enough they have an affinity to "stack or pool" at oil journal entry points and block off up to 50% of the lower area of the journal, disrupting oil flow rate and causing localized heating. This can starve a critical area of lubrication and because of localized heating create a temprorary increase in performance (thinner oil sheared or thinned by heat) until the oil starved component is destroyed.
The solids also have an affinity af resting in the oil pan/sump and collecting and holding sludge precursers that eventually collect into full blown black sludge creating more problems.
Why do some users of aftermarket additives offer good reports, or praise the product? Because most aftermarket additives prohibit sound because of their density, then you think (falsely, as in placebo) that the engine is running more smoothly. It simply masks the problem.
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To continue ...
Teflon (PTFE) was never designed to be an engine lubricant, and can actually clog oil passages. As I stated earlier, Dupont (owner of the Teflon technology) was quoted as stating that Teflon was not for engine lubrication).
I guess that when people see eggs "slipping" off the frying pan ... and then see Teflon on the oil/additive label ... think that Teflon in the mixture can only help an oil be more "slippery".
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I hope this answers your question.
You can request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking below:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Dan M Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE
2/26/2005 14:12:50
| RE: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message: Mr Amsoil you may be right, but where is the proof it's not 100% true synthetic? I've been looking at verious synthetic oils (labled on the bottle/web site as synthetic and not a synthetic blend). I see no refernece to which group of oil it's made from. Maybe they are afraid that if the post that people will find out it's not 100% true synthtic.
- Dan M
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Oiler Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE
2/26/2005 15:38:03
| RE: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message: Dan, You won't find it on the bottles.
They want you to think their products are full synthetic.
Go to http://forums.noria.com/eve
and be prepared to devote a good chunk of time reading inside these forums.
You'll come out a bit smarter about oil and its technology.
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/26/2005 17:30:23
| #1 Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil IP: Logged
Message:
SYNTHETIC VS. CONVENTIONAL/HYDROCRACKED PETROLEUM
Conventional lubricants are refined from CRUDE (dino) OIL which has thousands of types of molecules. Refining is a process of physically separating the impurities from the oil and further separating the light and heavy components. Because refining separates products by weight, it groups molecules of similar weight but DISSIMILAR (different) structure. The result is a lubricant with a wide assortment of molecules. Some of the substances in crude oil are detrimental to lubrication. Paraffins, for example, are a common conventional oil contaminant that causes motor oil to thicken in cold temperatures.
Synthetic motor oils are made from pure chemicals (natural gas), NOT refined crude or "dino". Their components are chemically reacted to produce finished products with pre-designed performance characteristics. Because of their molecular uniformity, they excel in reducing friction, which improves fuel efficiency, controls heat and reduces wear. This molecular uniformity also helps synthetics resist thinning in hot temperatures and thickening in cold.
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Castrol started the FAKE Synthetic debate, by refining CRUDE OIL one extra time and claiming it to be synthetic when it is not. It still has thousands of types of molecules, and it still groups molecules of similar weight but DISSIMILAR (different) structure ... therefore NOT a TRUE Synthetic Oil.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/26/2005 17:41:32
| #1 Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil IP: Logged
Message:
WARNING
A recent story in Lubes 'N' Greases Magazine (an Industry Trade journal) illustrates how the API may be expanding the definition of which products may be labeled as "Synthetic" to possibly include Group II base stocks ... ANOTHER HYDROCRACKED OIL. Only Group IV and Group V Base Oils are TRUE SYNTHETICS. Thank you again Castrol for screwing up the true definition of the word synthetic and therefore screwing the consumer.
WARNING #2
Most oils labeled as Synthetic Blends use as little as 10% of the synthetic component and the performance shows. They mix 10% synthetic with Crude "Dino" Oil and call it a synthetic Blend. FOUL !!!
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/26/2005 17:54:40
| #1 Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil IP: Logged
Message:
Dan ... Look for the letters: PAO.
Q. What is a PAO (Polyalphaolefins)?
A. True Synthetic PAO's (Polyalphaolefins):
Polyalphaolefins (PAO) Base Oils consist of a single molecular structure whereas crude oil or mineral oil contains a broad range of structures. Polyalphaolefins are also known as synthesized hydrocarbons, but are most frequently referred to as PAO�s. PAO�s are commonly manufactured by reacting ethylene gas with a metallic catalyst. The major advantage of PAO�s is their ability to function over a broader temperature range than their mineral-based counterparts.
There are several FAKE "synthetics" on the market using different base stocks. AMSOIL is a true polyalphaolefins(PAO) synthetic oil. Many other oil companys use hydroisomerized waxes in their synthetic formulation replacing true synthetics with highly refined petroleum CRUDE oils. These oils are not true synthetic oils and are cheaper to manufacture. They will never be able to measure up to the parameters of hot and cold temperatures that True Synthetics such as AMSOIL can safely handle. None the less in 1999, The NAD (National Advertising Division) of the council of Better Business Bureau ruled in a debate that oil companies using this hydroisomerized processed petroleum oil (crude or "dino" oil) can refer to them as a true synthetic oil which they are not.
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Look for the "Genuine Synthetic PAO Formulated" designation displayed on AMSOIL packaging which indicates that the oils are formulated with Polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks.
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AMSOIL has been the leader in synthetic motor oil formulation since its introduction of the world's first API rated synthetic motor oil in 1972. By specializing exclusively in the synthetic lubricant technology, AMSOIL is able to optimize the most advanced chemistries available. The "Genuine Synthetic PAO Formulated" designation displayed on AMSOIL packaging indicates that the oils are formulated with Polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base stocks. This chemistry is the industry's premier base stock technology. Unlike conventional mineral-based chemistries, AMSOIL PAO base stocks contain fully saturated, hydrogenated molecules and are free of wax and other impurities. Combined with an exact balance of premium additives, itdelivers superior hot and cold temperature performance, resists oxidation and acid formation and provides long-term wear protection. AMSOIL "Genuine Synthetic PAO Formulated" oils have shattered the parameters of the most rigorous industry testing and set the standard for all other motor oils.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by cicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/26/2005 18:07:08
| #1 Amsoil Dealer Steven Roark Amzoil Ams Oil #1 IP: Logged
Message:
In conclusion:
There are three types of synthetic oils marketed today.
Brief Descriptions:
(1) PRETEND (FAKE) SYNTHETICS -
Group III Base Oil (hydrocracked conventional petroleum crude dino). Castrol started this by taking dino though additional refining processes and the courts ruled that they could "use" the work synthetic.
(2) 100% TRUE Synthetic Oil -
Uniform molecules built in the laboratory. Typically blended with a combination of:
--- Group IV = ( PAO or Polyalphaolefin ) base oil.
--- Group V = an esther or polyolester base oil.
--- Each manufacturers unique Additives Package
(3) Synthetic Blends -
With commercially available synthetic blends, you have no idea of what the synthetic to dino oil ratio is. It is a marketing ploy to confuse the public. Blends allow for a lower quality/price base oil / additive package --- to be mixed with a small amount of synthetic, meet the specs, and get a premium price from you the consumer.
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Most of the PRETEND (Fake) Synthetics use a Group III base oil ( hydrocracked conventional petroleum / dino ). A 100% TRUE Synthetic Oil uses either the Group IV or Group V base oil, or a mix of the two, plus their own unique additives package. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the TRUE synthetics use all of one, they mix a combination of both. Group IV is PAOs (Polyalfaolefins) while Group V is the esters.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Pugs Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE
2/27/2005 15:47:22
| RE: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message: Great info. One last question Mr. Amsoil. I've never been able to find Amsoil in Canada - Is Mobil 1 one of the "real" synthetics then and comparable to Amsoil (or at least somewhat comparable)?
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/27/2005 15:55:57
| #1 Amsoil - Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog - Amzoil IP: Logged
Message:
Mobil1 is a REAL synthetic.
Amsoil in Canada
Canadian Tire carries Amsoil ... unfortunately it is priced above retail catalog prices at almost $10 CDN a quart. Canadian Tire is only carrying limited Amsoil products and I believe only in the quart sizes. No Amsoil Filters, ATF, Greases, Specialty Oils, Gear Lubes, or Truck Care Products. So all you Canadians that are interested in the complete line of Amsoil products still need to ,b>request a FREE Amsoil Catalog. Also, you can become an Amsoil preferred Customer and buy amsoil at wholesale prices - approximately 20% off retail.
Also, how much knowledge do you think the Canadian Tire staff will have about Amsoil products or how to use them? Answer ... None!
Here is the rub ...
Canadian Tire is doing what we call High Grading or High Ending ... selling only Amsoil's best and fastest movers in a retail outlet ... and leaving the rest of the product line to dealers who have put a lot of time, effort and money into understanding and educating themselves on the complete Amsoil product line ... making Amsoil what it is today, a recognized Industry Leader, a recognized label and a superior product.
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To request a FREE Amsoil Catalog which offers Amsoil's complete line of Synthetic Oils, Filters, Gear Lubes, and Truck Care Products ... click the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/27/2005 16:01:18
| #1 Amsoil - Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog - Amzoil IP: Logged
Message:
Canadian Tire's Carry Amsoil ... Who else?
DODGE DEALERSHIPS NOW CARRY AMSOIL !!!
This was posted by Sephiroth 3/20/2004
V8 Forum --- Subject: New Chrysler Product?!
Message posted by Sephiroth:
"I went in to have my brakes checked today, and when I walked into the garage the first thing I saw made my jaw hit the floor. My local dealership now uses and sells AMSOIL products!! They've got it posted on a big banner over the service-desks. GM may not have been able to get it for their 'vettes, but obviously Dodge was able to, or they found out how awesome it is and started buying at regular price! When I go in for a tranny-filter, fluid, and gasket change next week, it's getting filled with AMSOIL."
Sephiroth went on to state:
"This is at the Raleigh, NC dealership, Al Smith Buick, Dodge, Mazda. I told the guy at the desk I was astounded to see them using AMS and that I had been using it for a while now. After he rode in the truck he said he'd be switching next oil-change in his Ram.
As for me, I've got it in the engine, and I'll have it in the tranny soon! Next up are the differentials. After that I need to get a dyno just for curiosity's sake. IF I get 3-5hp form the differential, and God knows how much from the engine and tranny, that'll be enough without any heavy mods. Well, for all I do anyway. If it is a significant gain, I'll post the results."
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... and as part of the same thread jeremiah2360 stated:
"Norwood (MA) Dodge sells Amsoil too."
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Dodge Dealerships are beginning to realize that Amsoil offers a FULL LINE of Premium Synthetic Lubricants and Dodge Dealerships are beginning to offer Amsoil.
Why ...
1) Dodge knows Amsoil meets AND exceeds Dodge's requirements.
2) Because their customers are asking for Amsoil.
3) Amsoil = 30 Year History of Research and Development
4) Amsoil offers the best Synthetic Lubricants
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Anyone know of any other Dodge Dealerships offering Amsoil?
It is still less costly to DIY !!!
Especially as an Amsoil Preferred Customer!
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Dan M Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE
2/27/2005 19:28:30
| RE: Quaker St. Syth vs. Mobil 1 (& Slick 50) IP: Logged
Message: Thanks for the info oiler, I'll make some time to sort through those posts. You still failed to answer my question Mr. Amsoil.
- Dan M
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AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast
2/27/2005 19:42:59
| #1 Amsoil - Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog - Amzoil IP: Logged
Message:
Yes I did Dan,
On 2/26/2005 @ 17:54:40
Dan ... Look for the letters: PAO.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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