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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
1/10/2005
16:09:03
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 Subject: Factory Security question
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Message:
I was interested if anyone here knows if the factory security (the horn honking security which is useless) is built into the PCM or if it is in a module all of it's own.
Mine is a 2003 with the key clicker remote.
I am planning some additional anti=theft security of my own. I need to get the "arm" and "disarm" signals from the factory device to my device.
If anyone knows this it would give me a head start in looking, otherwise I'll be looking for the signal "blindly" in the wiring harness until I find it.
FYI, my security will pretty much prevent any theft of my belongings or access into the truck without harm to the ba$tard who breaks in. Going to use some harmful gas :-)
I've already had good luck with my engine immobilizer for the last year.
Home brewed kicks a$$ over factory security by far.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/10/2005
16:32:25
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
I think it's in a module all its own.
Check for something called a TCM (Timer Control Module) behind the driver side kick panel.
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Kowalski
GenIII
1/10/2005
18:38:03
|  RE: Factory Security question
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I saw a factory system shut down a car in expressway travel lane while working on the turnpike's emergency service patrol. Sure you want to trust something that could hurt you or your family to that kind of engineering ?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/10/2005
20:49:38
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
It wont shut the truck down.
I've already got about a bulletproof anti theft device running that I built last year.
It is automatic and basically when I turn the key to "on" I then have to touch a secret sensor every time or it wont start. Each time you turn the key off and back on you have to do it again.
I spliced that deal into the factory wiring harness to a circuit that said it was the fuel pump circuit for the fuel pump relay. But when i open that circuit it not only prevents the fuel pump from running, the truck wont engage the starter and after a few seconds you get an error code in the odometer. That was a plus having it do that so it's been perfect!
I can go to the car wash for instance and turn my key to "acc" to play music. If I walked off and some idiot jumps in it and tries to start it, it wont!
It's so hidden into the wiring looms that it took ME an hour once to by pass it when my first control mal functioned. If you cross the wrong wires when trying to bypass it, it blows a fuse in the relay box which wont let the truck start even more. it's about as fool proof as you could ever get.
later I made an invisible place to insert a special plug that bypasses the automatic part and lets the truck start as normal in case I take it to the dealer or something.
Ok. Now that i explained that part. my next step is to actually prevent THEFT of any of my sbeloved sh*t from my truck say if I leave it in a parking lot too long.
I plan on installing 1/4 inch tubing up through each pillar or whatever the liner is that goes along the tops of the door openings on both sides. About midway above each door opening will be a nozzle that will poke through the liner just slightly but be flush enough not to be too noticable.
All of them 4 nozzles will split off of one line that will go through the bottom of the cab some how then connected to a tank that I can charge with about 2 lbs of DiFluoromethane.
To control the outlet of the liquid will be a electric selenoid. That selenoid will be controlled by my circuit board which will be enabled by the arming and disarming of the key remote. A secondary safetly will be an electrical interupt IF the truck happens to be running.
To energize the valve will be if my control is enabled and someone opens the door. IF the truck is running and my control tries to trigger the valve, it can't because a safety relay will have a set of normally closed contacts opened when the truck is running.
so you see. it will be pretty much fool proof.
If someone slim jims my truck or breaks a window then opens the door, they will get -50 degree liquid on their face as it evaporates to a gas. the GAS left in the truck would displace enough oxygen to poison the phucker who somehow gets past the freezing (burning) of their skin.
For me to DRIVE my truck I'd have to trigger my existing anti-theft module I already have been using. Once the truck IS running it will open the path of the electrical circuit to the seleoid for the DiFluoroMethane gas. So there would be almost no chance for it to go off when I'm in the vehicle driving.
Lastly, I've been exposed to the gas enough times to know how to deal with it IF I came in contact with it.
I pity the phucker that tries to rip me off again. I'd NEVER trust my belongings to a shop installed car alarm.
Who actually pays much attention to a car alarm siren anyway?
Well, actually there is SOME times I pay attention to them worthless noise makers. that's when I start my truck and one chirps in the space nearby me. then i REV my truck up and set it off :-P
Any more ideas on the factory keyless entry/security would be great.
Thanks for the info, as always :-)
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/10/2005
21:51:55
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
Joe. i think we may have a winner.
just got back from a quick trip to the video store. When I got home just now I placed my ear to the driver side kick panel and can hear a series of clicks coming from within when i arm and disarm the remote.
It's too dark tonight to get into it so maybe if I get off work early enough this week I'll open it up and check for some logic levels during arming and disarming. I'll be happy if that's it rather than being built into the PCM.
Thanks guys.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/10/2005
22:01:57
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
Yeah. That's it. And here's more stuff for you.
And it's a CTM - Central Timer Module. So much for memory.
This is cut and pasted from my 2004 Service Manual CD.
"A high-line CTM is used on high-line versions of this vehicle. The CTM combines the functions of a chime/buzzer module, an intermittent wipe module, an illuminated entry module, a remote keyless entry module, and a vehicle theft security system module in a single unit. The high-line CTM also controls and integrates many of the additional electronic functions and features included on models with this option. The horn relay is one of the hard wired outputs of the CTM. The high-line CTM is programmed to energize or deenergize the horn relay in response to certain inputs from the Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) system and/or the Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS)."
Keep in mind this is from a 2004 manual, so I don't know if the pinouts are the same for 2003. I'm gonna guess they are, but someone with a manual for your year should double-check. I am not a tech writer, and there are mistakes in this manual, so....
Here we go.
The CTM has 3 connectors.
The horn relay control signal is an output on pin 5 of the large 26-pin connector. It is BLACK/RED STRIPE. The CTM uses this wire to provide a GROUND signal to the horn relay, which has battery voltage to it already via 20 amp FUSE 2 in the Power Junction Block. This is a separate GROUND signal than supplied by your steering wheel horn switch, but it goes to the horn relay also.
For reference, pin 4 is RED/YELLOW STRIPE, and pin 6 is BLACK/ORANGE STRIPE.
On the slightly smaller 16-pin connector, are the driver and passenger door ajar switch inputs to the CTM.
Driver Door Ajar input is on pin 15. It is TAN. All passenger Door Ajar inputs are combined and input on pin 13. It is TAN/RED STRIPE.
These Door Ajar inputs are GROUND signals to the CTM.
You have the high-line version of the CTM. Your keyless entry system requires it.
If you also have the Sentry Key Immobilizer Module, it might be a tiny bit more involved.
Hope this helps you.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/10/2005
22:15:29
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
It occurs to me, after looking at the schematics a bit more, that you can verify the horn ground signal from the CTM is pin 5. Put a meter on it and you should read battery voltage to ground. Honk the horn and the voltage should go to ground potential. This should work because the ground from the horn switch and the ground from the CTM are tied together at the horn relay, which already has battery voltage....etc.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/11/2005
01:05:00
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
Right on man. I wish I could find a good shop manual for my truck but the local auto parts store don't even have a Chiltons to cover my year.
Mine doesn't have the factory immobilizer I am most certain. Have not noticed a chip in the key or anything like that.
OK. So there should be a wire out for the horn which "honks" once at arming.
I could use that signal to my circuit. But I'd have to splice a diode or something in line between the horn relay and that pin out on the CTM and take my signal from the CTM side of the diode. That shold prevent the steering wheel horn switch from also being able to arm my weapon, err... I mean device.
Since it locks and unlocks the doors I should also be able to find an output for that and isolate it as well. heck, for that matter i should be able to ignore the Horn signal and just tap into the lock and unlock signal from the CTM to the door locks. I'll have to isolate each signal between the CTM and the door locks to keep the door lock switch on the door from activating/deactivating my device.
Interesting stuff. I'll have to pull my kick panel and go investigate. It's kick a$$ coming up with logic ideas to make stuff do what you want. I've got piles of misc IC logic chips left over from past projects.
One other thing I've decided to do again is learn more about Micro Controllers. I'll be ordering a kit this week and learn how to program those ba$tards to have even more options open with fewer parts. plus if those things don't do exactly what you want, you just pull the eeprom and reprogram and try it again.
My last project with logic was going to be an attempt to make fuel injection for my ATV. But it was getting so complicated it was making my head spin looking at it all. If I can somewhat master the microControllers I'll give it another wack some day as well.
Here's the last board for that I was working on, and it was going to take even MORE parts.
 Plus any adjustments would have to be hard wired. I like the Micro Controller idea better...
Thanks for the info Joe. That will definitely give me a head start!
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/11/2005
09:15:07
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
Good luck.
Got my service manual on CD from ebay for $10.
Just looked there for a 2003 manual for you, but all I could find was this Haynes manual for Dakota and Durango 2000 - 2003.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34218&item=7946458054&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
I think you probably want better than that, though.
If you want the locations for the door lock and unlock signals, let me know. I'll be in the "book" again when I get home from work, and I can look that up for you.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/11/2005
09:35:43
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
GraphiteDak
I'm real interested in your touch pad interlock. Neat idea!
If you have it, could you send me a schematic, parts list and hookup info?
JoeX98312@yahoo.com
Thanks.
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DaknBlk
GenIII
1/11/2005
10:12:15
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
GraphiteDak,
I got a Factory Service Manual (dead tree version) off of ebay last spring for $40 or so. It took a couple of weeks for one to come up for sale (and a couple more weeks for another one to come up for sale after I lost the bidding on the first one).
Anyway, its for the '03... so if you ever need any info I could scan & email it to you.
John
03cc w/ 3.9 V6
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/12/2005
00:26:18
| RE: Factory Security question
IP: Logged
Message:
Well i forgot exactly how i built this one.
It used a logic IC of some sort as a "latch".
The EASIEST way is to use a double pole relay.
Let me see if I can draw up something real quick...
When you turn the key ON you supply 12VDC to that circuit.
The relay is a Double Pole type. has two switches with Normally open contacts.
When you touch the two pins with your finger, from +12VDC to the input of the transistor the relay turns on. The relay both completes the circuit for the fuel pump relay as well as provides a continuous power to hold itself on.
It's just a latch circuit. Each time you turn the key off and back on you have to touch the sensor again.
I see I forgot something on that pic. i just drew it up real quick for here.
There should be one more resistor going from the input of the transistor to ground. (a pull down resistor) about 500k ohm or so would work. That would keep the signal from drifting enough on it's own to switch the transistor on.
Anyway. You get the idea. It's been working for almost a year now perfectly.
I still have not been home early enough to go look behind that kick panel.
DaknBlk, if you have a page of the keyless entry circuit you could scan, that would be great.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/12/2005
01:11:27
| RE: Factory Security question
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks, GraphiteDak.
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DaknBlk
GenIII
1/12/2005
21:31:04
| RE: Factory Security question
IP: Logged
Message:
GraphiteDak, you've got mail.
BTW, I like the touch sensor trick. If I had any clue how to do it, I'd give it a try.
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John
03cc w/ 3.9 V6
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Jecht X
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/12/2005
21:49:37
|  RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
GraphiteDak
well you could always get a jet engine exciter igniton box that pushes over 1 million volts and hook it to your door handles.
hate to see the mods you done to your wife/GF to keep people from messing with her lol
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/12/2005
22:39:40
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
I've thought of the "electric shock" idea.
The voltage YOU speak of may even go through some gloves :-)
Several years back some guys at work were going back and forth with practical jokes. Forgot what they did to me but I almost went too far one time.
I took the toilet they used at the shop and used a very small orifice type drill bit and drilled two very small holes through each side ot the toilet seat. Then i pushed two single strand wires up through them holes just to where they would about touch your a$$ cheek on either side as you sat on the toilet seat.
Then I ran them wies under the seat and down each bolt hole to the rear of the tank. I covered the strands of wire under seat with good old white out which hid the small wires.
Behind the tank I hooked up the wires to a high voltage coil used to ignite propane furnace :-)
Well. I had that sucker hooked up for several days but would only leave it plugged in to power when I was there. I didn't want to take a chance someone getting hurt when I was not around.
I never got a chance and kind of chickened out not knowing what would happen if someone SAT on a high voltage toilet seat!
Eventually one co worker/friend SAW the thing behind the tank and went to show his co worker who worked in the shop. I guess HE got a good laugh locking his co worker in there and telling him I had built a bomb and the toilet was going to blow up!!!
Anyway. When I get time I'll get started on that phase of my security and post some of the installation except for where the electrical is actually hidden, etc :-P
It's going to be awesome!
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/12/2005
22:57:53
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
Oh yeah.
DaknBlk, thanks for the schematics. That will help big time :-)
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Kowalski
GenIII
1/13/2005
16:12:12
|  RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
I knew an old hot rodder who claimed to have used a furnace coil like that for car security. Said you had to jump on the running boards to open the door handle or you'd make the connection - back before remote controls...
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/14/2005
00:08:47
| RE: Factory Security question
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Message:
Damn dude!
I'll just stick with the "freezing-poisonous gas". It's sure to mess up some punk who breaks into my truck. I've been ripped off enough to not tolerate this crap any more!
I'll post some hazard/warning stickers above each main door handle. Then i can't be sued. Remember that thief who was robbing a vacant house while the family was on vacation? It is documented that he was stuck in the garage when the door to the house locked behind him. the garage door mal functined leaving him stuck in the garage for 2 days and he was in there eating cat food. he WON that case.
What a crock of sheet!
And how STUPID can you be to not be able to get out of a garage. It shouldn't take too much to figure out how to manually open or even take apart a residential garage door opener!
Hell, I would have hanged on the thing and pulled it from the ceiling if i had to!
I just purchased a micro controller programmer. Going to spend the next few months learning how to program those bad boys.
then I can add some more logic to my projects including some additional remote control-paging hardware.
It looks like i will never sell this truck, because I'd hate to start all over again with mods!
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Gustavo
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
3/08/2015
17:46:28
| RE: Factory Security question
IP: Logged
Message:
Recently I buy a Dakota 2005 v6 3.7 engine and the
security system is off. How I can enable the system
again. Also I change the key fob battery but nothing
happen.
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