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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2005
10:26:54
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 Subject: Speaking of oil filters.....
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I recently noticed that my dads 83 Dodge van with the 318 and almost all 318 & 360 engines up until the mid 90's takes a larger filter than the newer engines. For reference purposes the newer ones take a Fram PH-16 and the older ones take a Fram PH-43. Does anyone know what the difference is between the two other than size? I Know some don't like Fram, but I only used that brand as a reference.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2005
14:21:06
|  RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Not all that familiar with your particular vehicle, but I usually use the largest oil filter that will fit. On my 4.7, I use AC Delco PFL-1A, equivalent to Fram PH-8A, because of its filter capacity (amount of filter medium), and other characteristics that make it superior to the Fram in my opinion. As long as the thread size, pitch and gasket size are the same as original, it should work fine. At first oil change at 1500 miles, I switched out the tiny OEM filter in favor of the larger AC Delco unit.
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Matt4.7CC
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2005
15:16:19
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Another thing to be aware of is the bypass valve pressure. You may want to email the oil filter manufacturer about this. As long as the the bypass valve opens at the same psi, all should be fine.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2005
15:36:09
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Too bad they don't put that info on the box, eh?
But I figure it this way: If the filter medium size is doubled, oil velocity through the filter medium is halved, as long as pressure and volume of oil delivered to the filter remains the same.
With oil being pushed through the filter medium at reduced speed, the filter has a better chance to catch the smaller particles suspended in the oil.
Also, a larger filter will increase your oil capacity a bit, which I think is a good thing.
Differing opinions abound, but that's my $.02.
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
08:58:01
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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I've been using the larger filter trick since 1985, first on a 2.2 4-cyl Dodge minivan, a '92 5.2 Dakota, and now my '01 4.7 Dak. The Fram PH43 is a great cross-reference for sizing for other brands. My current favorite for the 4.7 is the NAPA NASCAR Select 91068 for about $3.29. The media is twisted like a spiral staircase. I have noticed that the oil is noticeably cleaner after 4000 miles (Mobil 1 5w30). Wix manufacters these filters.
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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
09:18:15
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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01motorsport, how about valvetrain noise with the NAPA filter? I recently noticed that with the Fram filter I get some valvetrain tapping on cold starts where as with the Purolator I don't. I never had this problem with Fram filters on any other vehicle I've owned.
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mddak
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
11:36:56
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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actually I don't want my filter to bypass and with a bigger filter it should continue to filter. I have a 3.9 and the next oil chg will be a XX43 filter. If it fits.
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mopar_man
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
12:13:13
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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I don't understand second guessing the engineers.
I think I will stick with the filter that is recomended for my 3.9.Seems to risky for the minimal possible benifits.Seems to me you could possibly do some engine damage if you choose the wrong filter.
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garwood
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
13:36:48
| bypass
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ALL filters go into bypass when the oil is cool. You can't shove thick oil through filter media. That is why the bypass valve is there. It is highly unlikely that even a filter with over 30K on it would ever go into bypass at operating temperature.
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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
16:41:16
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Mopar_Man, We're dealing with Dodge here. Second guessing the engineers seems to come with the territory!
The concept of using a larger filter is an old one. The theory being that more filtering and oil capacity is a benefit. I've had good luck practicing that theory over the years. The key is to make sure you are using a filter that has the same features as OEM(=/-anti drain valve & specific measurments). Dodge has a tendency to go with cheap rather than better. After doing some research, I've found that NAPA calls for a 1085(Fram ph16) filter for my Dakota, but the 1068(Fram ph43) filter is the one used on older Dodge engines. The 1068 is slightly larger and has all of the internal features of the 1085. Some are even using the Ford 5.0L filter in place of the 1085 in other applications. Another advantage to using the larger filter is it is easier to remove!!!
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
16:46:47
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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I thought that start up noise, was the valve leaking oil out of the system when the engine is off, before it refills at start up. That, in itself, over time, puts alot of wear on the engine.
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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2005
09:46:39
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Most of my start up nosie is due to a bad valve lash adjuster which is better since I used auto-rx, but is still there to some degree. I now notice that when I use the Fram filters I get all kinds of valve train noise, most likly from the oil draining past the antidrain valve in the cheap Fram filter. After finding a link from a guy that did some research on filters on one of the threads here, I can see why the Fram is considered junk! It showed that even the cheap store brand filters were better than fram(as long as Fram didn't manufacture them). Over time I think morning valvetrain tapping will cause some sort of excessive wear, but more than anything it is just annoying!
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mikey_mo
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2005
12:21:05
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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My '01 RT has ALWAYS made valvetrain noise on startup. It has done this since the day I bought it. I have tried various brands of oil filters and even different brands & weights of oil with no change. Once I got through the "testing" stage, I settled on Valvoline oil and Wix filters. 83,000 miles and going!!!
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mopar_man
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2005
15:28:23
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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figols i understand what you are saying that does make sense to use a larger filter with the same features.I read of someone else using the FL1A ford filter I will have to check into that as my ranger uses that type filter I could by the same filter for both vehicles .I personally like the motorcraft filter I read it is a purolator pure one filter just cheaper.I will also check ph43.The main thing that worries me is the thread pattern need to be sure thread pattern is the same.
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erick
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2005
19:58:23
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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I've ran a PH 43 on my 89 since it's second oil change. Which is 215,000 hard mile's with out a problem.
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Rustywrench
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2005
14:14:48
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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I had noisy start up clatter etc and have experimented with several filters. I agree the Fram is junk ...... Napa Select wasn't much better. I am using the Hastings filter now and no noise at start up and very heavy weight when removing and discarding. I am guessing that the Hastings is removing more contaminants etc and is doing a better job of removing debris thus the heavier weight at dispposal.
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Walt
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2005
14:30:36
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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The latest oil filter comparisons from bobistheoilguy web site
http://www.oilfilterstudy.com/
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Jake
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2005
23:50:45
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Yep. and read the "Lube It" post here for more filter size cross reference data:
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/20111.html
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rob25
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2005
22:59:09
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Check out k&n oil filters I got one about 3 months ago i have been very happy with this filter. They say it filters things as small as ten microns if you don't know how small that is take a hair and split it 90 times. These filters seem to work better than any of the other filters i have used.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2005
23:11:16
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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Figols - care to elaborate on the product you used to quiet your valvetrain noise?
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here
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2005
06:18:47
| RE: Speaking of oil filters.....
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auto-rx.com
Go to this page and put auto-rx in search engine;
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=5
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