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General Dakota Board
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furball69
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2005
06:32:43
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 Subject: RE: oil and filters
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"furball
he is asking about oil filters not air filters dummy"
So was I, dummy.
What's your point?
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furball69
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2005
06:35:06
| RE: oil and filters
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96 dak
"It's not a fighter jet it's a pickup truck, why use synthetic oil?"
Because I can.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2005
08:17:23
| RE: oil and filters
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495k miles with 20k oil change intervals on a raggedy 3.9?
hmm....
I smell bullsh!t
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96 dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2005
12:11:39
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
"Because I can."
WOW, you really convinced me to switch to synthetic.
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Lemmers
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2005
14:39:36
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
DSW,
If I remember correctly, the FL-1A does have
the anti drain back valve. I've been running
them forever on my 5.0 stang (three years on
my quad) and have never had a problem
(knocking on wood).
I change oil and filter every 2,500 miles (max)
so it probably does'nt matter what I oil and
filter I use, but I like the best...
I figure the more Ford parts I can use on my
Dodge, the better it'll run.
Later,
Lemmers
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furball69
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2005
17:07:00
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
"WOW, you really convinced me to switch to synthetic. "
You didn't ask why 'you' should use it; you were being sarcastic about people using syn in a truck, and so, I gave the appropriate answer.
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Jecht X
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2005
04:55:52
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
I have a 03 Dak SLT 4x4 4.7L auto. I was wondering with amsoil which product do you use in your Daks. they have 4 to choose from. do you use 5w-30 or 10w-30 and do you use the reg syn or the XL 7500 syn? sorry for what are prob stupid Q's but I am new to all this and have been thinking about syn oil for awhile. Dino oil worked fine in my old 95 ranger 4 banger. 78k miles and not one leak in the engine. which I think is great for a ford lol. or is moble 1 just as good. also I havent heard no one talk about royal purple. is it good or trash?
also I had my oil changed at Pennzoil and they told me my filter had blown out some from the oil pump over pressure valve not working.. now when i looked at the filter I could tell nothing wrong with it. they said it coned out and the filters was flat on the bottom. I thought no Pennzoil filter was flat on the end. I called the dealer about this and they said they had the same place send 4 dodge cars to them with the same prob. they could find nothing wrong with it. the dealer said they dont know what they are talking about.
I think I might go back to changing my oil myself again. easier to get under the Dak than a ranger lol.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/09/2005
10:54:10
|  oil and filters synthetic oil Amsoil Amzoil AmsOil
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To avoid the bashing and flaming, I would simply like to add GENERAL information regarding synthetic oil filters since I ONLY recommend (and use) Synthetic Motor Oils and Lubricants.
It is the 21st Century - why use anything but synthetic lubrication?
Synthetics have been proven to be superior!
__________________________________________________
Proper oil Filter for Synthetic Oil
When considering an oil filter for vehicles using synthetic oils, you should use a Synthetic Engine Oil Filter that is specifically designed for the advanced filtration needs of Synthetic Motor Oils. As a vehicle owner you should look for a synthetic oil filter that provides the best possible balance of efficiency, long service life, capacity, and high flow capabilities.
- efficiency is a filter's ability to trap contaminants
- Service life is the period a filter allows proper oil flow
while trapping and holding contaminants
- capacity is the amount of contaminants a filter
can hold without loss of oil flow and filtration
Oil filters need good efficiency and good capacity to protect engines.
Those with poor efficiency fail to trap a significant portion
of particles large enough to damage the engine.
Those with poor capacity fill quickly, and once filled, allow dirty oil
to bypass the filtration media, circulate unfiltered, and damage the engine.
__________________________________________________
I ask that you consider Amsoil SDF Filters.
The AMSOIL Super Duty Oil Filter is a full flow oil filter designed for synthetic oils, extended drain intervals, and severe service. Its rugged filter body contains a high-tech blended filtration media composed of cellulose and synthetic and glass fibers. The filtration media sets the Super Duty apart from conventional filters in efficiency, service life, snd capacity -- and that all adds up to superior filtration and protection.
Hope this was helpful.
__________________________________________________
You can REQUEST a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/09/2005
12:29:58
| oil and filters = AMSOIL Super Duty Oil Filter SDF
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The order of the BEST MEDIA in a Oil Filter:
1) synthetic -
2) fiberglass - it is second because fiberglass has to be
held together with glues and therefore decreases flows
3) cellulose - if this get water in it ...
... it will bubble up and restrict flow.
Blended filtration media composed of synthetic, cellulose and fiberglass fibers are usually the best.
==================================================
YOU NEED A BALANCE BETWEEN FLOW AND FILTRATION
First ... FILTRATION
It seems that engine wear gets worse when there are particles above 5 micron particles not being filtered out of the system. GM has done studies where the wear became very great at around 30 microns. On the flip-side, Mobil did tests in 1995 where they ran a number of vehicles at 7.5K oil changes and 15K oil changes on filters that would have been in the 25 micron range. The vehicles went 200K with very little wear. So it would seem that filters that grab most of the 15-20 micron particles whould be OK. I know this is not very scientific.
It really depends on the clearances in your engine. An engine such as my neighbors LT1, which is a small block Chevy as far as the bottom end is concerned, has large clearances so a 20 micron particle won't harm it as much as it would on a much tighter engine such as many DOHC 4 cylinder imports. So in other words, it's different in every case.
--------------------------------------------------
In theory, reducing wear particles to "0" is optimum but in the real world of automobile engines it doesn't work.
What good does filtering out for instance .5 (1/2) microns ... 100% of the time ... but causing wear by interupting oil flow to the bearings.
--------------------------------------------------
If you are concerned, perform a Used Oil Analysis and see for yourself what is the PPM range in your engine ... for all the major metals (iron, lead, alumn, copper).
--------------------------------------------------
... FLOW
FLOW IS AS IMPORTANT, maybe ... MORE IMPORTANT ... than FILTRATION.
Many filters have good filtration and terrible flow.
__________________________________________________
Which filter? ... What is your budget?
A $5 filter, then Bosch Super Premium or Wix. Reasons: Top notch construction, good filtering, and good flow. (The PureOne is in this price range too, but I've got issues with restricted flow in the PureOne because of the densely packed media.)
And for only $2 more ... ONLY $7 (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price) for Amsoil SDF oil filters.
Amsoil Super Duty Oil Filters (SDF) offer all-around better filtration and protection than conventional filters. Full flow design for extended drain intervals and severe service.
Amsoil Oil Filters contain a high-tech blended filtration media composed of cellulose, synthetic and glass fibers. The media sets the Super Duty apart from conventional filters in capacity, efficiency and service life, delivering superior filtration and protection.
The AMSOIL Super Duty Oil Filter (SDF) is designed to provide maximum filtration while meeting the high flow demands of modern automobiles. The AMSOIL SDF contains a special cellulose, synthetic and glass blend media that offers the best possible balance of long life, high capacity and overall efficiency.
The AMSOIL SDF has a lofted fiber depth-type media that traps dirt throughout its entire thickness for exceptional filtering efficiency. It keeps oil clean and free of wear-causing contaminants.
The AMSOIL SDF has a heavy-duty case of drawn steel. The case is double-crimped at the base with rolled-under seaming to withstand extreme pressure surges and road shocks.
The AMSOIL SDF has an anti-drainback valve that keeps trapped contaminants in the filter when the engine is not running.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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deaver
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2005
19:18:52
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
blah blah blah
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Spike_
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2005
19:43:18
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
I thought the amsoil comments were very helpful
Why flame a site sponser?
He pays which means you and I get a free ride.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2005
23:10:22
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
deaver, my thoughts exactly.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2005
23:13:44
| RE: oil and filters
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Message:
"To avoid the bashing and flaming, I would simply like to add GENERAL information regarding synthetic oil filters since I ONLY recommend (and use) Synthetic Motor Oils and Lubricants.
It is the 21st Century - why use anything but synthetic lubrication?
Synthetics have been proven to be superior!"
Of course you would say that...you sell the slick synthetics.
Personally, dino will carry you to 250k + miles in about anything if maintained right. When is the last time you had an engine repair that you could point to dino oil as being the problem.
Now you will bring up operating temperature...throw in a 180 degree 'stat and call it a day. Don't complicate things for business.
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AmsoilDealer
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/10/2005
06:42:31
| Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil Ams Oil
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Real Simple, and I can elaborate if you wish ...
SYNTHETIC VS. CONVENTIONAL/HYDROCRACKED PETROLEUM
Conventional Lubricants (a.k.a. dino or NON-synthetic) are refined from crude oil which has thousands of types of molecules.
Refining is a process of physically separating the impurities from the oil and further separating the light and heavy components. Because refining separates products by weight, it groups molecules of similar weight ... but dissimilar structure. The result is a lubricant with a wide assortment of molecules.
Some of the substances in crude oil are detrimental to lubrication. Paraffins, for example, are a common conventional oil contaminant that causes motor oil to thicken in cold temperatures.
SYNTHETIC MOTOR OILS
Synthetic Motor Oils are made from pure chemicals, ... not refined crude. Their components are chemically reacted to produce finished products with pre-designed performance characteristics.
Because of synthetic lubricants molecular uniformity, they excel in reducing friction, which improves fuel efficiency, controls heat and reduces wear. This molecular uniformity also helps synthetics resist thinning in hot temperatures and thickening in cold.
--------------------------------------------------
..... Welcome to the 21st Century!!!
Why use anything but synthetic lubrication?
Synthetics have been proven to be superior!
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/10/2005
06:52:57
| Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil Ams Oil
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Now for the long version ...
Most major brand name petroleum oils perform adequately provided your driving conditions are normal and provided you change the oil regularly per manufacturers recommendations, (Note: short city trips, dusty conditions, HARD driving, and towing are considered extreme).
For those of you who drive your vehicle hard, tow a trailer, drive very short distances, sit idling and in stop & go traffic for long periods, live in a cold climate and/or if your car runs hot, etc., etc., etc., ... quality synthetic motor oil, synthetic gear lube, and synthetic automatic transmission fluid is a wise investment that will provide the additional protection that you require as well as last thousands of miles longer than conventional lubricants.
__________________________________________________
Synthetic oils were originally developed more than 50 years ago. Amsoil introduced the first synthetic oil for automotive use in 1972 and have continued to be at the leading edge of development ever since.
Mobil 1, undoubtedly the most recognized name in synthetics, was introduced in 1976. Many companies have jumped on the bandwagon and have since released synthetic lubricants for automotive use and all are becoming increasingly popular for their superior lubricating properties, superior ability to flow at cold temperatures, and their ability to withstand high temperatures for extended periods of time.
Several new cars are delivered with synthetic oil in the crankcase and require synthetic oil use throughout the life of the car.
__________________________________________________
There are two primary differences between synthetic oils and conventional petroleum (dino) oils. These are the base stock or liquid that makes up the volume of the oil, and the additive package. There are additives (not to be confused with over the counter additives) in all oils that enhance the wear resistance properties of the oil, enhance the ability of the oil to neutralize acids and combustion by products, and provide corrosion protection for the engine’s internal surfaces.
The amount and quality of additives (the "additive package") vary from one oil brand to another and this is a very significant factor in the ability of an oil to adequately protect your engine in all driving conditions.
***** As a general rule of thumb, the cheaper the oil, the fewer additives it has and therefore, the less able it is to protect your engine.
__________________________________________________
There is one school of thought that suggests that the only difference in synthetic oils vs. petroleum oils is that the synthetics typically have a better additive package. This statement is only partially true.
Synthetics almost always have superior additives than petroleum oils, hence their higher cost. However, the synthetic base stock is of paramount importance in the ability of a synthetic oil to flow at cold temperatures and withstand greater amounts of heat over significantly longer periods of time.
Petroleum base stock molecules are long carbon chains that are sensitive to stress and heat. Additionally, various paraffins that are contained in all petroleum products regardless of how well refined they are, cause oil to jell like a syrup at extremely cold temperatures. High engine temperatures and heavy loads (as typically found in towing or HARD driving) cause these chains to break down and the base stock actually boils off causing a change of viscosity and the formulation of sludge. This can happen at temperatures as low as 230º F and by 250º F many petroleum oils are suffering significant breakdown.
Synthetic oils on the other hand are made engineered specifically to provide all the lubricating properties that natural oil possesses, but none of the cold thickening or hot thinning properties of petroleum oil. Synthetics are made up of uniformly shaped molecules with shorter carbon chains which are much more resistant to heat and stress. Synthetics can withstand temperatures of 290ºF all day and still protect your engine. In fact the American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) standard wear resistance tests are conducted at 302º F. In this test synthetic lubricants far out perform petroleum lubricants by factor of four to one (4 to 1), and greater.
Oil temperatures of 230ºF to 250ºF are not at all uncommon under extreme driving conditions. Liquid cooled cars can have extremely high oil temperatures even though the water temperature may be normal. The water temperature guage might read 210ºF while the oil temperature fluctuates between 240º F and higher,depending on how hard the vehicle is driven.
__________________________________________________
All of the manufacturers of synthetic oil tout the benefits of reduced wear, more horsepower, lower operating temperatures, and improved fuel mileage.
All of these benefits are derivatives of better cold flow characteristics and higher levels of friction reducing additives that are found in synthetic oils. I can confirm better cold driving characteristics, increased fuel mileage of nearly 10%, marginally lower operating temperatures, better heat dissipation capability, and long term high temperature stability.
Are these benefits enough, however, to persuade average drivers to give up their trusted petroleum oils and pay the extra price for synthetics? Enthusiasts, yes. Average drivers, perhaps not. However, synthetic lubricants can endure extended drain intervals, which is a major consideration toward justification of the higher costs. This benefit is not widely promoted by the major oil producers most likely because they want you to pay a premium for their synthetic oils every 3000 miles just like their regular oils. Most companies don’t bother to tell you that synthetic oils are capable of going 25,000 miles or more without significant breakdown. It is not uncommon for "over the road" truckers to go several hundred thousand miles between synthetic oil changes. Reminder: The stop and go city driving that most of us do is much tougher on motor oil than over the road highway driving. FACT: City driving is considered by some raters as extreme and our vehicles need increased protection.
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
Jag
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/10/2005
17:43:46
| RE: oil and filters
IP: Logged
Message:
: : : shakes head : : :
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/10/2005
19:08:29
| Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil Ams Oil
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I know why Jag : : : shakes head : : :
It's like the beer commercial. Tastes Great or Less Filling?
I't hard to pinpoint JUST one reason why synthetics are superior.
To assist everyone please read the following:
THE ROLE OF MOTOR OIL
Before we can discuss what makes a good motor oil, it helps to understand what role motor oil actually plays in the performance of an engine.
While motor oils serve a variety of functions, they are primarily necessary to lubricate and to cool the engine. When the engine is at rest, the motor oil sits in the bottom of the engine block in what is called the oil pan. Upon start-up, an oil pump feeds oil from the pan to the oil distribution system by means of a network of passages, tubes, grooves and holes leading to the engine bearings and other surfaces needing pressurized oil for lubrication. Other parts, like the overhead valve system, receive a carefully controlled quantity of non-pressurized oil through splashing or spray.
In addition to lubricating and cooling engine parts, motor oil must allow easy starting, protect the engine from corrosion and oxidation, keep the engine clean, form a tight seal between piston rings and cylinder walls and help the engine use fuel efficiently.
In days gone by motor oil was made from the throwaway byproducts of a barrel of crude oil after everything useful was taken from it. In those early days the filter, if you had one at all, was a by-pass type, filtering only a small percentage of the oil. In some instance the filter was little more than a screen and the oil was changed every five hundred or thousand miles. (Some of us recall grandpa's stories of tires needing to be changed on every trip to town, the idea of longevity being somewhat foreign back then.)
As cars and their engines became more sophisticated, so too the requirements of a lubricant became increasingly demanding. In the 1960's jet fighter pilots and their mechanics were becoming aware of the advantages of synthetic oils, and a few of them experimented with the notion of synthetic lubrication for automobiles. One of these pilots, Lt. Colonel Albert J. Amatuzio, went further than the haphazard experiments of his peers. His ten year quest resulted in the development of AMSOIL, the first automotive synthetic motor oil to exceed the certification requirements of the American Petroleum Institute (API).
__________________________________________________
You can REQUEST A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/10/2005
19:18:43
| Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil Ams Oil
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Unlike conventional (NON-Synthetic a.k.a. "dino") motor oils that contain non-essential molecules that do virtually nothing to protect the engine – and contain contaminants that actually harm it ...
... AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil is pure and molecularly uniform.
__________________________________________________
You can REQUEST A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/10/2005
19:23:12
| Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil Ams Oil
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Tastes Great? Less Filling?
Extended Drain Capability = Heat Tolerance
The major reason (difference as well) that synthetics perform longer than petroleum oil is heat tolerance. Flash Point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil.
The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 degrees F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption.
Today’s engines are expected to put out more power from a smaller size and with less oil than engines of the past. Therefore, the engines run much hotter than they used to. That puts an increased burden on the oil.
Even the best petroleum oils will have flash points only as high as 375 and 420 degrees F. For today’s hot running engines, this may not be nearly enough protection. Just about any synthetic you come across will have a flash point over 430 degrees. High quality synthetics can have flash points over 450 degrees (Every AMSOIL synthetic oil has a flash point of over 450 degrees F with some exceeding 475 degrees). As a result, you will see little noticeable breakdown due to burn-off.
Just as important is the way in which petroleum and synthetic oils burn off. As a refined product, petroleum oils molecules are of varying sizes. Thus, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Since the ash content in most petroleum oils is very high, deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem.
Synthetic oils, because they are not purified, but rather designed specifically from the ground up for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off.
There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Moreover, many synthetics, have very low ash content. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there is little or no ash left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces. Obviously, this leads to a cleaner burning, more fuel efficient engine.
__________________________________________________
You can REQUEST A FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/10/2005
19:26:30
| Amsoil Dealer #1061837 Steven Roark Amzoil Ams Oil
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BE Aware and Be CAREFUL:
Not all Synthetic Oils are TRUELY Synthetic.
To quote an expert:
In 1999 the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the council of Better Business Bureau ruled in a debate of ... what is "synthetic".
Mobil challenged Castrol's replacement of polyalphaolefins (PAO's) with hydroisomerized waxes in their synthetic formulations. The Bureau ruled in Castrols favor and allowed them to call this hydroisomerized processed petroleum oil a synthetic. (A license to LIE)
The NAD ruled that synthetic was just a marketing term since there was no true definition of what synthetic is.
Since then many oil companies have replaced their True Synthetics with this highly refined petroleum oil in place of the more expensive True Synthetic PAO's.
These new highly refined petroleum oils are better in quality and performance than the cheaper refined oils, but they only come close in some parameters to a True Synthetic Oil and are cheaper to manufacture.
However, there is a growing place in the market place for these new oils, (at least they are better than conventional), as the bar keeps raising in regards to motor oil improvements required for new engines.
These "pretend synthetics" (you will see them advertised "as good as"), will NEVER be able to measure up to the parameters of hot and cold temperatures that True Synthetics can safely handle.
Only TRUE 100% Synthetics offer TRUE protection!!!
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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