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Dick
Dodge Dakota
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12/14/2004
13:45:29
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 Subject: Event Data Recorder?
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Does my 2002 Dakota 4WD Quad Cab have an Event Data Recorder ("Black Box") in it? Is it going to therefore "tattle on me"?
Thanks.
Dick
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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12/14/2004
16:43:49
|  RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Yes it does, but currently you cannot access the information. Most GM vehicles are widely accessible, as are some of the newer Fords. Nothing else as of yet.
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Dick
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
09:34:04
|  RE: Event Data Recorder?
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UH-OH....Then it has recorded some amazing things. Where is it and how do I disable it?
I hear that on many GM vehicles it is behind the radio, and can be safely disabled by simply pulling its connection plug.
Thanks.
Dick
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
09:47:36
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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You cannot disable it. The recorder you refer to is part of the airbag control module. Disabling it will also result in a disabled air bag. The module only records specific information prior to a "severe" event. This is usually limited to an airbag deployment, but others will record under a hard braking event. The information recorded is usually limited to a couple seconds prior to the event, and includes throttle position, speed, rpms, brake position and maybe one or two other items. Specialized equipment needs to be used in order to access the information, and in some instances there is only one opportunity to pull the data out. The memory module self erases at that point.
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garwood
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
12:09:42
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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That is coming sooner than you think. They have these data loggers that plug into the OBD-II for parents to monitor teenage drivers. They can keep about 2 weeks of driving data that can be read on a computer. At least one insurance company is experimenting with basically the same unit that evaluates your driving habits. At this point they are giving discounts if you use. Soon this will become standard unless you want to pay big $$$$ for insurance.
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Yup
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
12:36:02
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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LINK
The GM setup records the last 5-8 seconds before an airbag deployment. I forget where it happened but some guy is right now rotting in prison for the rest of his life after killing 2 young women.
Seems he was travelling 130mph in a 30mph residential street and t-boned them as they left their driveway. He lied about how fast he was going but when the DA was allowed to enter the recorded data into evidence he got fried.
Personally, I think it's a good thing, as I'm sure most safe drivers do. Anything to help after an accident or lower insurance rates is a good thing. I think the only people who have anything to fear are the morons who drive like morons and shouldn't be allowed to drive in the first place. They belong on the bus.
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Dick
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
14:11:48
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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OK, I'm just a dumb steel metallurgist, but even I could've reconstructed the forensic evidence to convict that guy. Surely a halfway intelligent prosecutor didn't need to set a precedent by subpoenaing the EDR.
This whole topic is a slippery slope, and more insidious than anything that people imagine about the Homeland Security Act. Owners are being snooped-on without probable cause, and by use of their own property.
Thank you all for telling me this valuable information. Fortunately, the Dakota I drive is a company truck. More than ever, I really like my '88 Suburban, and '84 Mark 7, and '73 & '74 Capris........
Dick
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
14:49:19
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Progressive Insurance has also launched a pilot program using similar technology on a voluntary basis. Hoping to increase or decrease rates based on driving practices. I can't remember if it was based on vehicle data or a self contained GPS type device.
The black box data is a good idea. It has made a significant difference in numerous accident cases that I have seen at work. Real time tracking and data logging, on the other hand, is an invasion of privacy, IMO.
You can buy the car chip at Sears and Autozone. About $70. Interesting little gadget. Perfect for teenagers I think.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
15:20:36
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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"Surely a halfway intelligent prosecutor didn't need to set a precedent by subpoenaing the EDR."
Yeah, but it I bet it sounded impressive in court.
Big brother is watching out there,,, Next thing you know OBD will be reporting any time you exceeded the speed limit and give you a fist full of tickets when they hook up your vehicle to the smog machine or your insurance rates will "magically" increase.
Electronics are a great way to make a vehicle efficient, but when they are snooping on what I am doing then it's going too far. Pretty soon they will be tracking your every move with GPS technology built into vehicles. Just one more reason not to buy a GM product.
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Rob Blake
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
16:14:40
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...
Personally I don't have a problem with it. I don't see a big conspiracy here whereby big brother will track your every move. I think it will just be used in the case, like the one listed above, where only the perp lived so it's his word what happened. And as was proven, the guy was a liar. It could work both ways, though, and potentially get innocent people off the hook when there are no other witnesses.
How many people have been pardoned from death row because of DNA evidence? How many were executed wrongfully?
And Sneezer, since your truck is not even yours does your employer have the right to clear their name in the case of an accident and save themselves a potentially ruinous civil suit, if you get into an accident? Should they be made to pay if you drive like a tool and conversely should you be made to pay if you don't?
I think it takes a lot more serious reflection than just the knee jerk "big brother is watch" conspiracy bull crap.
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
17:29:56
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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^5 Rob Blake
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Leviticus
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
18:33:00
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Car companies have no business putting these in vehicles that we pay for. If they want to sign people up and use them for exerimentation to make their products better thats one thing...but to start using these statistics and recorded events(which have been shown to be wrong a majority of the time) is just wrong and yet another invasion of our privacy.
Ill be damned if i get sent to prison because i hit a moron talking on her cell phone while she pulls out in front of me...but because the EDR recorded me as "speeding" or not applying the brakes quick enough..when she was the one at fault and caused her own accident.
I will not buy another vehicle that contains one of these without disabling it if possible. GM is written off in my books, as they are the ones pioneering this crap.
I dont understand how some so called "americans" can be so misguided and allow our freedoms to be taken away from us constantly. Look at all this christmas bulls**t thats going on now. Decorated christmas trees in public are now "holiday trees" and heaven forbid we actually say "merry christmas" or "happy chanukkah" to one another in stores or on TV. This is really our faults as americans because we dont stand up for our rights when idiots like the ACLU fight these ridiculous frivolous lawsuits.
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
18:37:47
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Whoooooaa Trigger. Put the blame where it belongs, insurance companies and the EPA...why would the automakers give a hoot?
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02dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
20:04:48
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Im dont know bout yall, but i like freedom, i like walking down the street, and not ansering why, or where im going. I like being able to take my nephew to the a baseball field and carry a bat with me, and not have to ask for an escort to make sure i dont hit anyone with it.
If u are in favor of this recorder, you are asking to have those rights taken away.
I think a machine that you would have to blow into before being able to start the car would be a hell of a lot more usefull. But that doesnt satisfiy insureance companys.
Freedom wasnt free, and still isnt today. Lets not for get what we fought for, and are still fighting for to this very day
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Ratdog
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
20:40:04
|  Guess I'll be keepin' my
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'90 Dakota and '84 Hurst/Olds for many more years to come. I also like my motorcycle that has six carbs and only an ignition control module with it's built in rev-limiter. 'Course... my NEXT bike will probably have only ONE carb... and at least 350 CID displacement. (Yeah... a bow-tie V8)
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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12/15/2004
21:02:12
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Freedom? It's not about freedom. We all lost what you are calling freedom when we all agreed to have a check/bank card, when we got a phone number, when we get mail at our home, when we register to vote, when we register our vehicles, etc. BUT these things (or lack of them) do not define freedom. They protect our freedom, they enhance our freedom. Not sure about you, but I'm not interested in some no name SOB driving an unregistered vehicle to my home and crashing it into my front porch, then not be able to find out anything about him because we wanted freedom and he got the full benefit of it's anonymity.
You have the choice to have no bank card, voter registration, vehicle ownership, etc...and you will have the same choices when data recorders are standard equipment on new vehicles. It's simple....don't buy a new vehicle.
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mikec041
Dodge Dakota
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12/17/2004
09:40:35
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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The same people who complain about EDR's have E-Z pass’s in their cars which are read with microwave receivers mounted on street signs. In NY they use EZ pass to monitor traffic on highways and will send out tickets if you go thru a toll booth to fast. But the Police have used EZ Pass to apprehend a kidnapper and free his victim (BTW printouts of the EZ pass can be obtained and use to track employees and cheating spouses)
In Connecticut a car rental company uses GPS to monitor how fast their rental cars are being driven and are charging renters "fines" for speeding.
Unfortunately this technology is designed to make life easy but how it's used is the problem.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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12/17/2004
10:37:52
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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These chip are also used to deny warranty claims. Imagine a hose bursts, your temperature spikes a little before shutdown, and they void your engine warranty because it got too hot once for 20 seconds.
It's just plain invasive. And don't look at me like that with that RFID chip in your retina.
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Hes Right
Dodge Dakota
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12/18/2004
02:23:50
| RE: Event Data Recorder?
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Lincoln never told a lie...wait that was Washington. But anyway, neither of them had to answer to anyone the way we do today. 02dak is right. Just say no to insurance companies, automakers, and anyone that endorses or uses these recorders. ...and if you buy one...may your engine warranty be short-lived and voided!
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