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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2004
10:41:46
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 Subject: nitrogen filled tires
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Anyone here tried this yet? I've been seeing more and more advertising for it.
They say it's better than air filled. air has moisture, nitrogen does not. They say it helps with gas milage and leaks less.
thoughtS?
- Dan M
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/24/2004
11:06:31
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Message:
Mainly for racing, where they're using tire pressure dialing in spring rate, fine tuning to within 1 psi or less. The effect of moisture in air doesn't seem to affect my truck's tire pressure by what I'd consider a significant amount on the street, affects all tires filled at same time equally, and compressing air squeezes most of the moisture out of the air anyway. This is overkill for street use.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Yup
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2004
11:35:45
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Use it in my drag bike slicks. Have used it on my street truck, but only by necessity. It's not as cheap as compressed , either.
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Mr2Man
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2004
16:58:55
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Costco now fills all of their tires with nitrogen. The main advantage is not having to check air pressure with the changes of temperature. Air has small molecules that actually pass thru the rubber in a tire. Nitrogen has larger molecules. So, barring leakage from punctures or from around the bead, over time you are less likely to lose tire pressure from normal use.
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Maggadog
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2004
22:41:57
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Say, Mr2Man, since air is 79% Nitrogen, If I fill my tires
with compressed air and wait until I lose air pressure
and then refill them and continue to do this, in a short
while I will be running almost 100% nitrogen. NOT!
Air is composed of many different types of molecules.
There is no "air" molecule. I say molecules instead of
atoms, because most of the elements that make up air
are diatomic, meaning they hook up with another of the
same type of molecule and hang out in pairs.
All of the molecules that are present in air are smaller
than any molecule of anything found in a tire. Leaks
"through the rubber" do not happen. Air, especially
when it is compressed as is found in your tires, will
expand and contract according to the outside temp,
thus increasing or decreasing the air pressure in your
tires.
This is why all tire makers, dealers, and car/truck
owners manuals tell you to check your air pressure
when your tires are cold. After you have driven a while,
the increased temp of the air in the tires expands and
increases the air pressure. The increased temp of the
air is caused by the friction of the tire against the road
while you are driving.
I'm sure this is more than you want to know, but since
my eighth graders will be covering this topic in science
in the next few days, it makes good practice for me.
Thanks for letting me practice.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2004
23:18:33
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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MR2MAN - The heck are you talking about? Air molecules leak through the tires? Go study your science?
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SR
Dodge Dakota
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10/25/2004
00:03:32
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Before you burn those advocating using nitrogen at the stake, do a Google search on "nitrogen air tires". I used to race karts, so was familiar with filling tires with nitrogen. It appears to be catching on now in road vehicles. I'm still not particularly convinced it's worth the hype, but they claim that the relative absence of moisture is better for the inside of the tire and rim, and particularly with vehicle/truck fleets, it makes economic sense to use nitrogen instead. Plus there's all the spin from the companies making and trying to sell these nitrogen systems...
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
10/25/2004
00:17:07
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Nitrogen does maintain the same pressure across diff temps but it's not noticable on daily drivers. Compressed air however usually does have lots of moisture in it so I can understand maybe it prolonging some rims form corrosion.
I've got two tanks of Nitrogen because I use it almost daily doing A/C stuff. I only use it in my tires occasionally when it is easier to grab the nitro tank than getting the air hose out at times. I also take it with me sometimes because a 2000 PSI Nitrogen tank can fill a bunch of tires compared to a 120 psi filled portable compressed air tank.
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Jeff
GenIII
10/25/2004
12:54:55
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Message:
maggadog -
you say air expands and contracts with changes in weather/temp, but does nitrogen? or does nitrogen hold a steady volume through a larger temp range than plain compressed air?
i think the point of the nitrogen is that it is more stable. and yes, if you put moist air in a tire the moisture will seep out thru the tire and leave a different pressure behind. unless you armorall the insides of your tires.
:)
Jeff
'99 3.9 clubcab
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Maggadog
Dodge Dakota
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10/25/2004
23:29:19
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Jeff,
Since "air" is about 78-79% Nitrogen, about 21%
Oxygen, that leaves only about 1% for all the other
gases including water vapor. And yes, nitrogen is still
subject to both Boyle's and Charle's laws regarding
temp. volume, and pressure of gases.
As to wether or not it is worth it to put nitrogen into your
tires, I can not answer that. I just cannot beleive that
anyone thinks that the pressure in your tires changes
because air leaks through the tire and nitrogen doesn't.
The reasoning that "air molecules" are so small that
they will travel through tire rubber leaving the nitrogen
behind, is goofy. Nitrogen molecules are actually one of
the smaller gasseous molecules that make up air. Only
Helium and Hydrogen are smaller. If you compare the
molecules of the gasses that make up air, even water
vapor is one of the smaller ones, at least on an atomic
scale.
Perhaps what you are really concerned about is the
reactivity of oxygen, rather than the moisture itself.
Nitrogen is a relativly unreactive gas when you put it
near water vapor, while oxygen will react freely with
metals in the presense of moisture. Perhaps this is the
reason some folks prefer to use nitrogen in their tires?
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2004
00:33:58
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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I agree with a lot of the chemistry you are all proposing here, let me add my two cents in here... if the moisture is of concern, then fill your tires on arid days. that alone will reduce the amount of moisture in the tires. Nitrogen inflation is mainly a three or four step filtration that eliminates it, along with other trace gases.
trust your air pump and tire guage, and check your tires once a week.. it isn't too hard... hell check em while you're getting gas, along with your oil level, Simple steps to preserving the saftey of your ride.....
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Jeff
GenIII
10/26/2004
12:04:09
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Message:
like i said, nitrogen filled tires will have a more steady psi than compressed air, because it is not as affected by heat/cold as compressed air is. thats the main plus. another is the lack of reactivity with the metals and the rubber.
and yes, compressed gasses seep out thru your tires. not very quickly, but i think the point of the nitrogen filled tires is that they require less maintenance and are safer.
Jeff
'99 3.9 clubcab
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Dex
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2004
14:50:35
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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What about C02?
I have a Powertank filled with C02.
Any positives or negatives associated with C02?
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ZoSo
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2004
16:51:08
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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What about filling tires with something other than air or nitrogen? What else would be a good gas to use? What about helium? Or nitrous oxide? Or arsenic, radium, or any other from the elements table?
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duh
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2004
17:32:24
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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combustible gasses are not a very good idea
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ok
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2004
18:42:13
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Use helium, it will reduce the unsprung weight.
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DakotaOwner01
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2004
01:09:09
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Gonna add my two cents. I use air in my tires. I have a tank of argon and co2 that I use for my brewing and wine making. I also am finishing up a general sci major. I can tell you right now regardless of the gas they are all subject to temp changes. See ideal gas law.
Furthermore, gas molecules are considered to occupy the same amount of space on a macro scopic level regardless of atomic weight. N2 diatomic nitrogen the kind you would put in a tire is pretty much non-reactive, but so is air with aluminum(rims) and rubber tires.
Aluminum forms an incredibly sticky coating of aluminium oxcide that does not come off protecting the aluminum underneath.
Rubber is considered non-reactive with oxygen. Infact your tires will photo degrade long before they will odxidize.
The only possible gain is the removal of water vapor which is minimal at best. When you compress the air most the water vapor condenses on the bottom of the air tank (notice the cock valve). If you are really concerned about water vapor save some money and buy an inline moisture trap it will cost about 150 bucks less then a nitrogen rig.
Sorry about mispellings.
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FYFA
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2004
02:05:04
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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The reason why racers use pure nitrogen is that it expands at a consistent rate as the temperature rises. If you use compressed air, it will expand at different rates depending on the amount of moisture in the air over the same temperature range. More moisture = more expansion. The difference may not add up to much, but it does take one more variable out of the equation, especially when you adjust in 1/2 psi increments.
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2003flrt
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2004
03:22:07
|  RE: nitrogen filled tires
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i am going to fart in a can and when i get enough gas i will fill my tires hahahahahaha
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er
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2004
10:31:45
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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dakotaowner01 - why do my rubberbands (indoors) decay? is it the lack of oxygen?
why do my balloons deflate? why do my old balloons that i wanted to keep in a scrapbook seem to decay and stick to everything and then fall apart all crackly? is it the lack of oxygen?
no - it is the presence of oxygen.
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Dex
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2004
11:24:10
| RE: nitrogen filled tires
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Dodge Dakota,
Are the ballons made of latex? That may explain it.
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