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samtheman
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
19:58:17
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 Subject: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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will make it to 18,000 like Mobil 1 did. Here is the link. Make sure you read all the way to the end of the page!
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SR
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
20:16:32
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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Uh, apparently all that synthetic oil caused the link to slide off the page! Sam, please post the link.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
10/07/2004
20:25:08
|  RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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Yes, please supply the link (I happen to know what it is) and don't miss the following quote from that website:
"Amsoil's rate of wear metal accumulation is clearly superior to Mobil 1 in most cases."
The only negative comment is regarding Amsoil TBN levels. NOTE: They changed the company that was providing the oil analysis half way through the competition. If they were using the same oil analysis company the results would be different.
I will post more in Amsoil's defense later.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
10/07/2004
20:33:27
|  RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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Okay, I'll play the game. Here is the site:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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hey look ....
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
20:37:21
| Hey Look ............
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It is another mobil1 vs amsoil b. s. test.
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hey look ....
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
20:47:20
| hey look ....
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well, i read the study like i read a book. i skipped to the end. of course it will not make it to 18k. the test is for 1 yr max and the yr is almost up. they gotta change at 1 yr no matter the mileage. otherwise the amsoil would prob. make it. even the guy doin the study says that the difference in results is the higher miles on the motor. to get a real read they would have to retest the mobil1. imho, the amsoil is better due to lower metals present in the oil.
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joe
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
20:51:41
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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It says:
Amsoil continues to impress with its wear metals but the viscosity is really getting out of hand. TBN is back down again as well -- the effects of make-up oil on its longevity are particularly evident in the last few samples. Frankly, with the viscosity/TBN issues, we are suspicious that Amsoil's wear metals are simply a byproduct of an older engine. A re-test with Mobil 1 is probably in order.
This at only 11,000. M1 went 18,000 metals from engine break in!
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hey look ....
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
20:57:06
| hey look ....
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joe
ya gotta read the whole thing. ya gotta look at the graph. ya gotta see that they changed the testing company. i been following that test since day one. the amsoil ain't gonna make it to 18k because they gotta change at 12 months and the tester has been riding his bike during the summer so he only drove it 11k miles. geesh. everybody looking for amsoil to wave the white flag?
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hey look ....
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
20:59:45
| hey look ....
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the amsoil guy got nuthin to hide. he is the one that put the link here. he ain't afraid. bring on the flamers.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
10/07/2004
22:22:22
| Mobil1 vs. Amsoil Oil Life Study - Amzoil Ams Oil
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Okay, I finished watching The Apprentice and now I am back.
samtheman,
You have mentioned that oil study before, but you have not offered any additional opinions, analysis, or knowledge of lubrication analysis. You have read my responses before, but fot the convenience of others I will repost here.
__________________________________________________
My only concern:
To date my ONLY concern with the Amsoil 5w-30 in that engine, and in that test, is the low TBN. TBN = the Total Base Number. This is a measure of acid-combatting additives.
However, I think there may be a culprit. The only time that I have ever seen TBN fall that fast and that far was with coolant or gasoline contamination. Perhaps it is time for an engine "check=up" or "tune-up" since that engine is approaching 43k miles.
My office associate ran this same Amsoil 5w-30 for 12,000 miles/1 year in his Durango and the TBN was 7.2.
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Wear Rates:
NOW --- the difference in wear rates between Amsoil and Mobil1 is statistically significant, with Amsoil showing significantly less valvetrain and piston/cylinder wear. Note the improved protection with regards to piston scuffing, with an Aluminum level of only 4, vs. an Aluminum level of 6 for Mobil1 at the same 11k mile mark. Iron levels are also significantly lower with Amsoil vs. Mobil1.
IMHO, Amsoil offers better protection to the bearings.
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Viscosity:
Amsoil Synthetic Oils will increase in viscocity slightly as the mileage increases -- as with many quality synthetics. To date, Amsoil has thickened from 66.2 to 74.2, and this is an increase of 8% +/- and is well within the 20% +/- viscosity guidelines. Amsoil is now a low "40 wt." which does not concern me at all. Metal Wear Rate is MOST IMPORTANT and metals present in the oil are FAR LESS than Mobil1 at the same mileage point.
__________________________________________________
Conclusion:
Except for the TBN, Amsoil is outperforming Mobil1. The main purpose of a Used Oil Analysis is to monitor engine wear, and compared to the previous runs of Mobil1, Amsoil is doing an excellent job here, and the wear metals are significantly lower using Amsoil.
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More TBN Comments:
I'm not sure what to make of the drop in TBN myself. I have NEVER seen the TBN fall so fast in any car that I have ever owned that used Amsoil. I currently performed an oil analysis on the Amsoil in my 2002 Lexus, and the TBN was over 9 at 6k miles (this was at 6 months and 6k miles because I only drive it 12k miles per year), so I am confused as to what is going on in this engine.
If you read the entire website you will notice that Blackstone (the one the oil study website owner is using) changed their testing procedures in the middle of this test. In doing so, you will notice that the comparison of Blackstone's old TBN testing process vs. Blackstone's new TBN testing method is suspect. Blackstone's old testing methods were much more accurate in my opinion.
The Amoil is still protecting the engine. The wear metals still look great using Amsoil, and are lower than when using Mobil1. The oil is NOT acidic. Yes, it thickened up a bit (viscosity) but has leveled off. Let's not forget that this is a LS1, and the LS1 prefers an oil that is either a thick 30 wt. or a thin 40 wt.
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More Viscosity Comments:
Oil viscosity is talked about as a 30 wt. or a 40 wt., etc., but it could actually be (in common man's language) a 39 wt. (thick 30 wt.) vs. a 41 wt. (a thin 40 wt.), which is no big deal and is very close as far as viscosity is debated.
As long as the wear metal numbers remain low, I would say ... let the game continue. Unfortunately, the test (and Amsoil's oil change guidelines for extended drains) is 1 year maximum, so therefore the test will end soon.
__________________________________________________
Thank you samtheman for giving me an oportunity to offer my opinion and my analysis of the oil life study.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Old Fool
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
22:02:17
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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Well, the test has determined that both the Amsoil and the Mobil1 are excellent Synthetics with both having minor differences. I have never ever knocked the Amsoil for quality or longevity. I use Mobil1 because it is still a bit cheaper and more readily available for the average user. If you are so organized that you can order your change oil a week or 2 in advance or purchase it in serious bulk then knock your lights out. I never know when I'm going to reach a change point, so I just run down and pick up 7 Quarts of Mobil1 and a new filter when I get close to 15,000 miles and change it. I spin a new filter on every 5,000 miles and top it off with oil I can buy right down the street, Mobil1. My engine will never see 150,000 miles anyway without a rebuild because of the driving conditions it has put on it.
I feel the same way about women that order AVON, hell, every thing you can get from AVON you can get cheaper and easier right down the street at Dillards. Without the 2nd Middle Man or Woman.
Later,
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Quad Rider
Dodge Dakota
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10/10/2004
21:08:14
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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Old Fool,
I just met the Amsoil Sponsor in person at the York, PA.
Snowmobile Show.
He was very busy but did get a chance to chat with him.
Amsoil has a far better lube and he proved it with the magazine
articles that he had on display there.
I could run the Mobil1 too but I want a better oil.
My fiance' uses Avon and Mary Kay and she likes that better than
the brands that Wally World sell too !
Ride On !
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Banker
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2004
06:02:15
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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In one hundred years your vehicle would not run any different with amsoil than it would with mobil1 so keep throwing that money my way. An ams dealer is one of my customers!
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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10/12/2004
07:20:22
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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I think it's all a bunch of worthless information. If anything was changed mid-test, then that test is void. We can go on all day about what might or might not happen. Since multiple variables changed, there is no guarantee of how well the two compared.
It's time to go back to junior high science class and learn how to do a real lab test.
- Dan M
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99dak4x4
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2004
08:13:22
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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Like I have said before, a friend of mine used to run a Quarter midget. He ran Mobil 1 for a couple years and had to have the motor rebuilt every couple of races. When he switched to amsoil, after the third race he took the motor to his engine builder to be rebuilt. The engine builder wouldn't touch the motor because he thought that my buddy never even ran a race. Needless to say he ran an entire season on 1 motor after switching to amsoil. I personally run Valvoline Synthetic in everything I own, and have yet to have any problems. My Dakota is a 99 4x4 with a v8 and almost 150,000 miles. It still runs strong both pulling my 26' Sea-Ray, and pushing snow in the winter. I have just torn down my sled and check the jugs, it's a 97 Ski-Doo 670. The jugs have very little scaring on them. This winter I plan on running amsoil in it and tearing it down in the spring to see if there is any difference.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
10/13/2004
08:34:06
| AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil -- Amzoil
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Thanks 99dak4x4 for the comments!
Regarding your mention of SNOWMOBILES, and especially you guys that have the latest models with Exhaust Power Valves. You know who you are, and you know the problems you are having.
Problems with your exhaust power valves gumming up and sticking? Amsoil Interceptor 2-Cycle Oil eliminates exhaust power valves gumming up and sticking!
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil
Amsoil Retail and/or Catalog Price = $27.40 per gallon
Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $19.85 per gallon
You can become an Amsoil Preferred Customer for only $20 per year. A lot like joining a Sam's Club. If you ride your sled as much as me and my friends --- you will go through a couple of cases a year --- and as an Amsoil Preferred Customer you will save almost $80 on just your Interceptor 2-Ccle Oil purchase.
__________________________________________________
Two-cycle engine designs are changing and it's absolutely imperative that AMSOIL provides the best possible products for those new designs.
Direct fuel injection and exhaust power valves have been incorporated in two-cycle engines in efforts to improve performance, reduce emissions and improve fuel efficiency. As a result, we're seeing leaner fuel-to-oil ratios and hotter-running engines, up to one-hundred and twenty degrees Fahrenheit hotter. This places additional demands on two-cycle oils.
Amsoil Interceptor 2-Cycle Oil eliminates exhaust power valves gumming up and sticking!
All of the ATV and Snowmobile Club Members PRAISE our oils.
__________________________________________________
________  ________
New AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil is engineered specially for power sports applications and those engines equipped with exhaust power valves. It contains the finest synthetic ester based oils and additives available for exceptional cleanliness properties. INTERCEPTOR is the result of years of field testing in the Rocky Mountain region, which provided some of the most severe conditions possible. INTERCEPTOR excels at controlling exhaust valve sticking and provides outstanding overall lubrication properties.
- Proven "No Stick" exhaust power valve performance
- Reduces smoke and odor
- Surpasses SAE #4 cold temperature fluidity properties and has a -54° pour point
- Prevents wear on cylinders and bearings for long engine life
- Prevents pre-detonation by controlling ignition promoting deposits called "hot spots"
- Versatile and excellent for all types of recreational equipment
- Protects against rust.
- Recommended for injector systems or at 50:1 mix ratios
- Recommended for Applications Requiring the Following Specifications: API TC, JASO FC
__________________________________________________
AMSOIL INTERCEPTOR Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil
Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = ONLY $19.85 per gallon
__________________________________________________
You can click below to REQUEST a FREE Amsoil Catalog.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Spock
Dodge Dakota
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10/13/2004
09:49:36
| RE: Syn Oil Study guys skeptical amsoil
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"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference."
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